I recently purchased the XLO Reference Recordings Test & Burn-In CD (HDCD).
In running it on my up stairs system (TEAC PD-301, 6P41S amp, Klipsch Heresy 1983) I find that the speakers are our of phase. I double checked the wiring and it is proper.
I had purchased the speakers used and considered it possible the PO had opened them up and in the process reversed one when putting them back together.
So I went downstairs and tested on my TV system which has a home built CD player and D/A on the CD SPDIF output driving an ONKYO TX-NR838 with 1977 Klipsch Heresy speakers which have never been opened.
I see the same issue with it.
I don't see how one channel can be out of phase in both systems unless one speaker were wired wrong in each system.
I could hook up a third system to test in the bedroom where I have a set of Kenwood KL-5050 speakers on a Sony STR-5800. I have a Shiga-Clone I could resurrect on it but I would be using the same D/A as the downstairs system so I am not sure that would be productive.
Any thoughts?
In running it on my up stairs system (TEAC PD-301, 6P41S amp, Klipsch Heresy 1983) I find that the speakers are our of phase. I double checked the wiring and it is proper.
I had purchased the speakers used and considered it possible the PO had opened them up and in the process reversed one when putting them back together.
So I went downstairs and tested on my TV system which has a home built CD player and D/A on the CD SPDIF output driving an ONKYO TX-NR838 with 1977 Klipsch Heresy speakers which have never been opened.
I see the same issue with it.
I don't see how one channel can be out of phase in both systems unless one speaker were wired wrong in each system.
I could hook up a third system to test in the bedroom where I have a set of Kenwood KL-5050 speakers on a Sony STR-5800. I have a Shiga-Clone I could resurrect on it but I would be using the same D/A as the downstairs system so I am not sure that would be productive.
Any thoughts?
This is infallible. Face the two speakers together about an inch apart.
Play any true mono source, even an FM tuner in mono.
The way of connecting them that gives more output is definitely acoustically in-phase.
There will be a large volume difference between the in-phase and out-of-phase connections.
If you want to eliminate the possibility that the problem is elsewhere in the system.
connect both speakers in parallel on one amplifier channel, so they each receive
exactly the same signal for the test.
But maybe the test CD is wrong.
Play any true mono source, even an FM tuner in mono.
The way of connecting them that gives more output is definitely acoustically in-phase.
There will be a large volume difference between the in-phase and out-of-phase connections.
If you want to eliminate the possibility that the problem is elsewhere in the system.
connect both speakers in parallel on one amplifier channel, so they each receive
exactly the same signal for the test.
But maybe the test CD is wrong.
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You can always do the 9V battery test - cone should move out, + to +, - to -.
On the other hand, you cant tell immediately if your speakers are out of phase? Surely if you've been running them out on both systems, it would have occurred to you "wait a minute - something's not quite right" some time ago.
Maybe check the liner notes of that test CD - they're pulling your leg to trick you into a more inquisitive mode?
On the other hand, you cant tell immediately if your speakers are out of phase? Surely if you've been running them out on both systems, it would have occurred to you "wait a minute - something's not quite right" some time ago.
Maybe check the liner notes of that test CD - they're pulling your leg to trick you into a more inquisitive mode?
My last pair of speakers before journeying into the diy of audio was actually wired wrong from the crossover.
Per rayma's suggestion I tested the speakers facing each other with a SPL meter in front of the gap to rule out my hearing. When wired as it should be "In Phase" the SPL is 9dB higher than when I reverse one speaker.
My conclusion is that the test CD is good and correctly labeled. My system does not suffer from a channel phase reversal.
I obviously have a "short between the headset" as we said in the NAVY.
I have a notch loss from 4Khz to 6Khz and a drop off above 10KHz.
Why would this cause me to perceive better spatial localization with one speaker out of phase from the other?
I will wire up a DPDT switch to one speaker to make testing easier in the future.
My conclusion is that the test CD is good and correctly labeled. My system does not suffer from a channel phase reversal.
I obviously have a "short between the headset" as we said in the NAVY.
I have a notch loss from 4Khz to 6Khz and a drop off above 10KHz.
Why would this cause me to perceive better spatial localization with one speaker out of phase from the other?
I will wire up a DPDT switch to one speaker to make testing easier in the future.
Attachments
You may be talking about two or more separate issues. I'd have to mention room asymmetry as a possible explanation.. but what's this notch, an inter-driver phase difference rather than an inter-channel difference?
The downstairs system is in a long symmetrical room. I perceive the same issue there.
My right ear has a 40dB notch from 4KHz to 6KHz due to noise exposure in the military.
I wear hearing aids to help compensate for it.
I perceive the phase reversal with and without hearing aids.
My right ear has a 40dB notch from 4KHz to 6KHz due to noise exposure in the military.
I wear hearing aids to help compensate for it.
I perceive the phase reversal with and without hearing aids.
Kevin, I hear a single source with no spatial information.
rayma, soundstage is still smeared. It is perceived as stronger to the left speaker. I need to try switching the inputs and wires to the amp outputs tomorrow to see if this follows the amp or not.
rayma, soundstage is still smeared. It is perceived as stronger to the left speaker. I need to try switching the inputs and wires to the amp outputs tomorrow to see if this follows the amp or not.
Good to hear. 🙂 Rayma's suggestion seems like a good one and would be one more step to perform before swapping amplifier channels since it is so easy to do.
It seems you cannot trust your ears.
So why don't you perform the battery test, mentioned early.
I would use a 1.4 v battery to play it safe and only go at a higher voltage if needed.
So why don't you perform the battery test, mentioned early.
This is foolproof to make sure at the speaker terminals.
I would use a 1.4 v battery to play it safe and only go at a higher voltage if needed.
mchambin, Yes it is an easy test. A single cell AA battery (1.5V) was enough to show speaker deflection clearly.
And, it shows that the right speaker in both systems is phase reversed from what is marked on the speaker terminals.
Duh! And I was thinking it was somehow my hearing loss.
And, it shows that the right speaker in both systems is phase reversed from what is marked on the speaker terminals.
Duh! And I was thinking it was somehow my hearing loss.
We assume. What if it is only the woofer and not the tweeter?
The problem with equalising toward hearing loss is that it's not how we are accustomed to hearing things naturally.
The problem with equalising toward hearing loss is that it's not how we are accustomed to hearing things naturally.
During my years as a mechanic I found two instances of bad factory wired phasing. Mind you, the factory connectors were one-way connectors...one was a strange overheating issue where the cooling fans were wired out of phase & the fans would blow thru, forward thru the radiator. The second was the then new-for-86 Honda Prelude SI...while doing PDI, pre delivery inspection, every single new Prelude SI had the top-of-the-line factory stereo...all of them had the rear speakers wired out of phase. I declared it a major factory defect & had a regional manager along with my service manager look & listen as I explained the error in detail.
------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
Well, the only way I can think of to test that would be to place microphones in front of each pair of drivers, one set at a time, and look at them on a scope while driving both speakers with a low level sine wave.
I am not trying to equalize the system for my hearing loss. I am only trying to optimize it for normal hearing. I rely on my hearing aids for correction and have one mode specifically set for no adaptive filtering, only fixed frequency correction for my loss.
I am not trying to equalize the system for my hearing loss. I am only trying to optimize it for normal hearing. I rely on my hearing aids for correction and have one mode specifically set for no adaptive filtering, only fixed frequency correction for my loss.