Speakers for low level listening ...

[animal farm]

With age, I prefer more to listen to my music at a lower sound levels and this has led me to vintage speakers, simply because vintage speakers often have higher resolution / less compression at lower listening levels, … the usual problem; moderne speakers needing some oohmmp to open up.

I have read about static friction and stiction and have noticed that speakers that retain openness and liveliness at lower sound levels have a few common features; low moving mass, high sensitivity, paper/fabric surround or very, very thin rubber surround, voicecoil former made of paper or kapton/fibreglass, …

My hypothesis is that in the bass and lower midrange, below approx. 300Hz, the spider and the surround are both important for the mechanical mobility and sonic vibrancy at lower sound levels. For shorter, quicker movements upwards in the midrange – again, at lower sound levels –, a fabric spider will by nature “always” retain a low mechanical damping, while hysteresis/damping-effects in the (thick and heavy) rubber suspension becomes a bigger problem.

A three-way speaker with a midrange driver with paper/fabric surround will almost always sound great at lower sound levels, whether it's an old Seas 17TV or 10F-M with paper surround or a newer Accuton C79 with fabric surround. Tweeters, both new and old, usually have fabric/paper surround and the problem is not as noticeable here, IME.

For two-ways suitable for lower sound levels, the big challenge has been to find a midwoofer with a super thin rubber surround that retains the mobility and vibrancy upwards in the midrange, and at the same time has a sufficient linear stroke length and enough self-oscillation (high moving mass) to produce decent bass in a relatively small cabinet.

My favorite midwoofers for low level listening are the old Seas 25TV (Dynaco A25) and various Focals from the 1990s, such as the 7V412 and 8V412, these have large and very thin rubber suspension that seems to move easily (quick tapping on the cone) and the surround seems to be mechanically dead (non-elastic), almost as very thin plastic. Advent Model 3 from the early 70s has a 6” midwoofer with the same type of very thin and mechanically dead rubber suspension. I believe they all have butyl rubber since they hold up so well with age. Model 3 sounds fabulous at lower volume levels (with its papercone tweeter), much better than my Proac 1sc's.

I've been reading with interest the recent threads about dome mids on the forum, and wonder if the reason for the dome's superior nimbleness and openness and clarity in the midrange is because they all have fabric surrounds?

Anyone with thoughts and suggestions for speakers that sounds well at lower listening levels?

(sorry for the length of the post, but this is a topic that really fascinates me).

 

[jtgofish]

I think wider baffle speakers tend to sound best at lower levels.Vintage Tannoys in big boxes sound very good without having to turn them up.And I agree dome mids are also good.Perhaps because they have very low moving mass and no spiders.

 

[AllenB]

A speaker should and can sound the same all the way down until it's inaudible.

I don't believe stiction is a typical problem, but there are other effects for which our perception is nonlinear.

 

[Palmspar]

Focal aria series have also thin rubber surrounds and low moving mass.
For subwoofers Scan speak drivers have a very high vas, what means the surround and spider are also very loose.

Also dynamic volume Denon/marantz what boost the low and highs is designd to make low level listening sound good.

 

[vidax]

The best reproduction of medium frequencies, of voices in particular, at low listening levels, I obtained with Power Audio PA-800K loudspeakers, with kevlar diaphragms, in Voigt Tapered Pipe (VTP) enclosures.

 

[william2001]

If you prioritize speed, clarity, resolution, etc. at lower listening levels, I highly recommend replacing any resistive style volume control with an autoformer. An example being the Slagle AVC's I use now. The more attenuation you use, the better these things get. This is completely opposite behavior to a typical resistive control where everything gets worse at low listening levels.

 

[fatmarley]

I find it interesting that Quad electrostatics have very low sensitivity, and yet are considered one of the best for low level listening.

My limited experience was the shock of how full of life my old Tannoy System 10 DMT sounded at low volume (were also brilliant at very high volume). I sold them because they couldn't reproduce electric guitars with adequate 'bite', and the bass was a bit boomy. Interestingly, someone on another forum complained about his new Tannoys sounding bad at low volume, so not all Tannoys are made equal.

 

[wallacefl]

Electrostats have a transparency and enunciation capacity that cone drivers cannot seem to replicate but room and human placement can screw those gifts up.

 

[cracked case]

I've been trying to make a HiFi that sounds good a low volume right from the start; I've found that polypropyline cones sound dead, paper and woven glass fibre sound good, also 3watt chip amps (I've tried 4 so far and liked them all) seem to be the way to go. I prefer full range or WAW designs, although I'm thinking a pair of subs would fill out the lower registers a bit. The problem is, most drivers are made for high power, so they have heavy voice coils, hence stiff suspension to hold them in place.

 

[Dave R]

Besides physical or mechanical properties of the driver components, good acoustic phase alignment through the crossover region helps clarity of details at lower listening levels.

 

[fatmarley]

I've been trying to make a HiFi that sounds good a low volume right from the start; I've found that polypropyline cones sound dead, paper and woven glass fibre sound good, also 3watt chip amps (I've tried 4 so far and liked them all) seem to be the way to go. I prefer full range or WAW designs, although I'm thinking a pair of subs would fill out the lower registers a bit. The problem is, most drivers are made for high power, so they have heavy voice coils, hence stiff suspension to hold them in place.

And yet the best speakers I've owned that sounded good at low volume used plastic cones.

 

[fatmarley]

Besides physical or mechanical properties of the driver components, good acoustic phase alignment through the crossover region helps clarity of details at lower listening levels.

And again, Danny from GR research (YouTube) measured the Tannoy system 10 and found the phase alignment wasn't great.

 

[adason]

I made few bookshelf 2way speakers with aurum cantus ac-130f1, with various tweeters.
I run ac with no crossover all the way to 7kHz. While not a woofer, it can go deep for midbass.
I find its presentation very detailed and clean. Likely because of luck of severe breakups. Membrane is extremely thin lightweight.
https://www.parts-express.com/Aurum-Cantus-AC-130F1-5-1-4-Woofer-296-400

 

[animal farm]

How to best achieve uncompressed transients, detailes, dynamics, clarity, engagement at lower listening levels; woofer, midwoofer and midrange driver, in my experience:

Important
-- a huge port in a huge cabinet, or a backloaded horn
-- low moving mass: high cm2/g & high dB/watt
-- low mechanical damping Rms
-- low-wattage power handling (a nice indication)
-- a single large widerange high efficiency paper/glassfiber driver, at least 10”, preferably 12-15”
-- light suspension: corrugated paper (best) or pleated fabric, … or light foam or really really thin butyl rubber


Nice to have
-- alnico magnet and paper former, small voicecoil Ø, short voicecoil, low mH
-- symmetric drive with copper above/belov the gap (40-400Hz), or copper inside the gap (600-3000Hz)
-- subwoofer + ribbon tweeter
-- 3-way with a dedicated small midrange driver
-- minimalist crossover: less damping, increased dB

 

[EdGr]

I think you are experiencing the Fletcher-Munsen equal loudness contours.

Maggies do pretty well at low volume. The loudness falls off slowly with distance. They are never loud from close-up, even when putting a lot of energy into the room.
Ed

 

[GM]

I quickly learned 5+ decades ago to let the female's better overall hearing determine 'best' at typical home SPLs and while they all preferred my various horn systems for parties; ribbons, planars ruled with Magnapans the best price/performance choice.

 

[norman bates]

I agree with edgr....

Dynamic music can sound constipated at 40-60db.....

I believe a floppy qms can make a driver better for lower level listening.
That way, the magnet force doesn't have to "fight" the cone not wanting to move.
But that can be lessened by a strong magnet (qts), but, then you easily get a climbing driver response.......

Very good tips in this thread.........

 

[NeonDriver]

I've had good luck using guitar drivers for low level listening. I totally agree on the light cone for good sensitivity, paper cone and surround for reduced reflections, paper voice coil former for the same reason, and low Rms (and Qms) for reduced damping, and small voice coil diameter. Low Xmax drivers seem fine to me also, probably helps by reducing inductance and possibly increasing efficiency. Big drivers don't need to move as much as a smaller driver, which helps to reduce distortion.

Generally, I think lower damped and more efficient speakers sound better at low levels. Great topic!

 

[Cal Weldon]

For my taste, a small FR in the right box and listened to in the near field works best. The smaller drivers have to work harder and tend to ‘come alive’ at that much lower a volume. Like a far field set of headphones, if you will.

 

[WBS]

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