http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/archive/perl/366_printreview.htm
http://www.epos-acoustics.com/products.asp?logging=122&lookup=m12.2
Hmm I just looked at the epos 11, 12, 12.2 etc...
They look almost exactly like the speakers my kids use on their computer... I am going to have to take look and see what the name is on them....
So what do you use for your stereo?
http://www.epos-acoustics.com/products.asp?logging=122&lookup=m12.2
Hmm I just looked at the epos 11, 12, 12.2 etc...
They look almost exactly like the speakers my kids use on their computer... I am going to have to take look and see what the name is on them....
So what do you use for your stereo?
planet10 said:
Yeh as soon as I read your post I started to laugh as I instantly realized that I did too LOLOL
I'm stepping in late -- this whole thread happened while i was on holiday.
A little story: Bob Fulton captured a single note from a bass clarient during a microphone set up. It was making measurable & repaeatable harmonics at 18 khz & 24 kHz with an initial transient at 48 kHz.
You might be able to hear the 18k by itself, but not the 24 kHz, but you gotta be pretty deaf not to hear the 6 khz beat frequency.
With the 18 g lamp cord of the day Bob measured phase shift starting at about 6 k (attributed to skin effects) so it is clear to see how the lamp cord could shift the harmonics enuff that the 6 k beat frequency isn't quite right.... and your ear/brain is going to pick that up.
dave
Madmike2 said:
A little story: Bob Fulton captured a single note from a bass clarient during a microphone set up. It was making measurable & repaeatable harmonics at 18 khz & 24 kHz with an initial transient at 48 kHz.
You might be able to hear the 18k by itself, but not the 24 kHz, but you gotta be pretty deaf not to hear the 6 khz beat frequency.
With the 18 g lamp cord of the day Bob measured phase shift starting at about 6 k (attributed to skin effects) so it is clear to see how the lamp cord could shift the harmonics enuff that the 6 k beat frequency isn't quite right.... and your ear/brain is going to pick that up.
dave
Yes never is alittle harsh. I was apprentice wire puller and coffee fetcher for the PF , Cult show and a backstage invity for the stones Living Color show. They didnt adjust the mid band frequency. The board had tape all over it for various points in the show. When living colour was done they started using those. When colour was on the board was adjusted i think once because a guitar was little light on an opening passage.
Thats just they way it goes when you open for major headliners. They dont want you to steal their thunder. ALthough i am sure there are musicians that you cant make sound bad. Norah Jones , Lenny Kravitz Wheezer, Cake , Bar Stool Prophets. Grady/Big Sugar. UB40. They all use premium wire
Thats just they way it goes when you open for major headliners. They dont want you to steal their thunder. ALthough i am sure there are musicians that you cant make sound bad. Norah Jones , Lenny Kravitz Wheezer, Cake , Bar Stool Prophets. Grady/Big Sugar. UB40. They all use premium wire
Bob Fulton was the real life AKA to Superman wasnt it? 😀
I cant say some people cant hear it. I can say that i cant. Only weird thing i can do is identify notes. My sister keeps saying i have perfect pitch. NOT sure what that means because she was the musical one i was the hockey player.
I cant say some people cant hear it. I can say that i cant. Only weird thing i can do is identify notes. My sister keeps saying i have perfect pitch. NOT sure what that means because she was the musical one i was the hockey player.
Speculation based on experience. I watched more than one Phase Linear bite the dust when faced with reactive loads. Certain audiophile cables were almost guaranteed to send it screaming into the stratosphere before expiring. One possible reason was the lack of high speed transistors coupled with high feedback factors. Everything is just fine with a test resistor, but hang some capacitance across the output and suddenly there are a few too many poles in the neighborhood.
carlosfm said:
it wasn't my setup...
and please tell me wise carlos sir... how do you know it wasn't attenuated perfectly and crossed perfectly and I still didn't like it? 😕 😕 😕
Audiophilenoob said:
Because you don't seem to have any idea how to correctly use a 1st order crossover on a tweeter.
That's why you talked about low dispertion of the fullrange, while I was talking about a fullrange + a tweeter.
Even crossed very high with 1st order, the tweeter still has output on the frequencies where the fullrange starts to become more directional.
Soudstage can be very good.
And don't generalize just because you heard one (bad?) example.
Fullranges are not all the same, tweeters too, and even with such a low parts count on the crossover, it's very easy to mess things up.
carlosfm said:
I'm not BSing here...
beaming on a 4" speaker would occur MAJORLY past 3.5-4khz... if you're talking about a 2" "full range" speaker... then it should last to 7khz for the xover point with the "super tweeter"
to the best of my knowledge it was xovered at 7khz with the tweet (a dome)... I don't remember what kind... but I made this face when I heard it
I've also played around with some nicer TB's and such...
If the full ranges you're using start to gradually... and GENTLY roll off after 7khz-15khz... I might see where this could be ok...
I do not see however where the overlapping of frequencies (tweeter playing the same notes the midrange is) could ever sound correct... but that's just me.... maybe I'll try this one out as good full ranges are quite cheap... and just about any planar driver would work for the top end quite well
it would take quite a bit of messing to even get it to sound acceptable.... however I still don't see where it would ever sound correct...
BTW I fully understood what you meant when you first started talking about it.... It's just not what I would ever call "good" sounding
SY said:
I guess I never hung a cap on it and frankly I dont want to do it just to find out at 100 bucks a bank... LOL...
Since you directly experienced this did you take any measurements to see what kind of capacitance it took to do this or can you site one of the cables used and teh conditions so I can look into it? If this is the case and what you say is correct then I wont waste my time on it... but in saying that I also have to say that I put that poor amp thru H#$& and it has survived with no problem and drove it into clipping several times and still no problem lol
Maybe on a specific amp or app? whats the story with that? Like I said I know of several personally that died of overheating but I have never once till today heard anything regarding instability...
That and what you are saying about slow transistors and high feedback bothers me a bit also... Since I have never had problems wioth slow transistors and hi feedback I would like to know what combination you feel causes this or any other amp to go into the stratoshpere?
In my personal experience I always had problems with high speed stuff and not enough feedback going into the stratoshpere.... Is there something I have missed on this?😕
Audiophilenoob said:
That's a common misconception.
Every type of crossover, with any slope, has overlapping of frequencies.
Some more than others.
If you cross the tweeter very high for use with a fullrange there will be overlapping of course, but that doesn't mean that it has to form a peak in the frequency.
Some fullranges are perfect for use with a 1st order crossed tweeter at very high frequencies, because both have a natural, slow roll-off.
As I said, I prefer 2 or 3-way speakers, but I have made some fullrange speakers that I have on other systems and do like to listen, it sounds very good.
Your concerns about the bass I have too, on my main system, but on small rooms and spaces (where I have those FRs), it works fine.
carlosfm [B] No said:
Do you know what I would really like to see?
I would really like to see a picture and read the design specs from a speaker that carlos actually really and truely
""""BUILT""""
I dont think he every built anything, just bought tiny little computer speakers with a bottom end of 56hz and it trying to tell us this is audiophile class equipment...
How about it carlos how about some pics, and design specs
rnrss said:
And why would I do that?
You don't give the orders here.
Moderators, thanks for sending my answer to Texas.
At least you could do a better cleaning of this thread, because otherwise this looks very biased.
rnrss said:
carlosfm said:
nice speakers 🙂
really 🙂
can you tell me a little about them? 🙂
is that a 6" full range I see????
Audiophilenoob said:lol dude .... I like your style😀
Yeah, must be the farm style.
He doesn't know that Epos is a serious manufacturer and specs +/- 3db frequency response.
rnrss said:
You may not deliberately hang a cap on there, but if you put one of the high capacitance "audiophile" cables on there, it's the same thing. Back in the day, people often used the Polk cables, notorious for smoking amp outputs. Worse yet, that loudspeaker at the far end of the cable is also quite reactive, and worse yet, its reactivity changes with level and time. Ouch.
The feedback thing is basic Bode. If you space too many poles too close, the negative feedback becomes positive due to the combination of phase shifts. Hang a capacitive load after a slowish output stage and you form a pole that the designer didn't intend. If that pole wanders a little too close to the pre-existing HF rolloffs, you've got a mighty oscillator, which is not what that amp is supposed to be. The dominant pole can become submissive, and that's no good for anyone.
Now more often, you get a situation where the stability is not beaten so much that the oscillation commences spontaneously, but it's so close to the edge that it gets shoved off on parts of the audio signal. So the user reports that the amp just "sounds bad," and tells all his buddies on an internet forum that feedback amps are no good.
carlosfm said:
Carlos, if I had more time, I'd be more surgical. When you resort to name calling, I just start hacking crudely. So the moral is, try to stick to technical arguments if you don't like my lack of precision.- Status
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