rnrss said:
High end? I'm just talking about enjoying the music -- since that is what is important.... i've heard many a high-end system where you can't do that.
I've been in many a room that just won't support low bass... makes everything sounfd like ...
The correct value should have been 1 not 0.125 (but Nelson's F1 into an 9 ohm load would be 0.1)
(i do have a degree in math but we can all be sloppy sometimes)
There have been a whole whack of threads on current drive & transconductance amps of late ... check them out. The world truly is round not flat :^)
There is no perfect damping factor for an amp. There is one that is right for am amp driving a speaker.
dave
carlosfm said:
Carlos,
You make it too easy for me, I can't resist! 😉
You say: "they have different lengths. That can't be good." Then I think: What not good? Is he serious? Why not good? Etc.
Jan Didden
Well if thin or no bass rocks your boat that is wonderful but that says nothing to change what I said... and because you enjoy it says nothing about the quality of itplanet10 said:
Anyone can find the exception to the rule...
Yeh so have I... and I have been in 10 times as many that do! again it does nothing to discount what I said and again is not within the context of point I am trying to get across again just throwing exceptions at me...planet10 said:
and exactly what does that have to do with I was talking about?planet10 said:
First I never said there was a perfect damping factor for an amp... second it would be Z = 0 if you want to keep this conversation with the boundaries of what I stated... If you want to take them beyond my stated limits, then make it zero to negative impedance up to the point of "optimal *speaker* damping"...planet10 said:
If your purpose with these comments is to find the exception to what I said then I dont see what you re trying to accomplish by doing this... I can find a zillion exceptions to any post you make too... as well as anyone else out here...
If you have a degree in math you are obviously educated so whats up with that? If you feel that your nelson f1 has something better, then by all means explain it in its entirety and why you feel it does...
The sketchy info you put up there is meaningless, unlike my posts where I illustrate every step so any one out here can duplicate it...
So I challange you to do the same with your nelson theory and the rest I will simply disregard.... That and in the 5 minutes I spent look at it, it looks like a little amp that granted may change damping according to Z but what good will it do me if it is only 10 watts? and what makes it better than an amp with a damping of 10000 like crowns studio reference?
rnrss said:
You can't make a global statement like that because it isn't....
There have been a whole whack of threads on current drive & transconductance amps of late ... check them out.
dave
Not my theory. Nelson Pass' amp
There have been a whole whack of threads on current drive & transconductance amps of late ... check them out. I'm not about to reiterate what has been heavily discussed and explained in mor detail than i'd ever hope to.
The more i learn & listen it seems that the quality of an amp is inversly proportional to its power.
I thought we were talking quality amps and you drag a Crown into the mix?
dave
planet10 said:
Hi Dave,
I'm sure you've heard of the the VR-11 from Von Schweikert?
http://www.vonschweikert.com/vr11_speaker.html
Well anyway, I read a review sometime ago, can't find it now, and in the review it detailed a demo setup by VS to demonstrate the extraordinary abiliity to fool listeners into thinking it was a live performance.
The test was conducted in a Large hotel room with seating for 50+ people. There was also a live band playing so that folks could compare. The test went like this - first the band would play and that was recorded using mics and then that would be replayed using the speakers.
The audience was full of audiophiles, reporters, industry folks etc. I gathered from the interview that the VR-11 succeeded in making virtually all the folks there believe they were listening to live music and not speakers.
Maybe someone could dig this out since I can't find it now which is a shame as it sounded promising.
Actually I can... Legitimately...planet10 said:
I took a quick peek at a few articles on trans amps knowing what I would find.... Maybe you missed this one....
Post #3
Hi darkfenriz
Your amp is a transconductance amplifier ... output will be a CCS and it will have zero damping to the speaker.
_________________
Jorge
planet10 said:
Likewise the damping formula is not my theory and it does funtion to quantify and qualify damping...
Sounds like you may be a victim of misinformation...
Well if you feel that low damping sounds better that is a matter of your personal taste... I drag crown into it because there are not many Hi damping amps out there... and unfortunaterly damping is related to power in that severl parallel transistors create a lower Z than a single one... and yes there are exceptions to that rule as well
If you feel that you have a more transparent amp then by al means share that with us... If the best you can come up with is a trans amp well I am less than interested....
ShinOBIWAN said:
Direct recording and playback really produces the best fidelity because it does not go through lot of processing. I once recorded live performance on an MD with the mics in my ears. When I replayed through the headphones for other people to listen, they though someone was talking to them when it was part of the recording. I think if you tried recording at home and replay, you would also get good results.
Good Point soongsc,
I'd imagine that since it was recorded in that room, and like you say with minimal processing, the results would be better than just a recording off CD.
I should imagine it was quite controlled too ie. lots of time spent tweaking mic positions, speakers recording software etc.
What I was getting at was its possible to create realistic reproduction of live music with speakers or at least that's what the folks said who listened to it all.
I'd imagine that since it was recorded in that room, and like you say with minimal processing, the results would be better than just a recording off CD.
I should imagine it was quite controlled too ie. lots of time spent tweaking mic positions, speakers recording software etc.
What I was getting at was its possible to create realistic reproduction of live music with speakers or at least that's what the folks said who listened to it all.
janneman said:
Unless the cable has zero impedance and/or the termination is a pure resistance, different length will case slightly different levels and slightly different frequency responses between channels. If an amp is sensitive to reactances, there will also be a small difference there because of the slightly different loads.
Now whether that crosses the threshold of audibility will be different from setup to setup, n'est-ce pas? But equal lengths ensures that this won't be an issue.
rnrss said:
I really don't wanna feed this, but my main system is almost all completely built by me, except these speakers.
You use a commercial amp, I don't.
I make my dacs, I modify my transports, I make my phono peamps, I make my line preamps, I make my amps, I make speakers for other systems I have.
Let's stop here, ok?
Reading this thread with interest . . .
The sound is not depending simply on the speaker cables . . .
Not simply on DF . . .
Not simply on amp's wattage . . .
Not simply on input and output impedance . . .
Not simply on Xover . . .
All are inter-related . . .
It is up to the whole consideration . . .
This is why diy is so much fun . . .
Playing with my latest Pass F1, definitely I feel so!
Enjoying the diyers fun . . .
Regards
jH
carlosfm said:
Yeh just like you built your 10 inch sub thats -6db@20.....
Sure as soon as you get real
rnrss said:Yeh just like you built your 10 inch sub thats -6db@20.....
Sure as soon as you get real
If you had something inside your head you would have figured out long time ago that if you wanna make a good sub on a small box you don't buy an hi-fi driver, because most of those demand boxes the size of big coffins (pun).
You have to go to car audio drivers, and mine is 10" alright, but it is MASSIVE.
ShinOBIWAN said:
Yes! it is possible to get that realistic. Good recordings in room like that could be done with just two mics, taking care how far way from the mics the players are can make the imaging at the listening location the same as if the audience were listening to the live performance.
I read an article that mentioned an early Edison phonograph.
It was still mechanical- no electricity involved. I believe one of those wax cylinder models. The company (back when the device was new) claimed that they did a live vs. recorded test on stage, and the audiance was unable to tell the difference!
I guess it depends on your expectations, and probably a good dose of advertising lies- that's always been with us!
It was still mechanical- no electricity involved. I believe one of those wax cylinder models. The company (back when the device was new) claimed that they did a live vs. recorded test on stage, and the audiance was unable to tell the difference!
I guess it depends on your expectations, and probably a good dose of advertising lies- that's always been with us!
ShinOBIWAN said:
Quad & AR were doing similar dems in the early 60s -- with similar results. With the recording process in the way any hope of recreating a real event collapes as soon as it hits the mics. Not to say that the recording can't still be seriously enjoyable & moving, but the idea of recreating a live, unamplified event still needs some serious work.
When we can record the neural impulses of an average Joe sitting at an event and then directly inject that into the brain we may have a hope.
Until then it is all about enjoying the music.
dave
rnrss said:
Reminds me of the title of an article in the latest aXp.
Speaker Myths. #1 was damping factor.
You've obviously not heard the magic of a good no feedback single ended amp (be it tubes or solid state)
If anything the last 10 years of hifi development have shown that the big, hi-powered, many output device amps + low efficiency multi-way loudspeaker is not the holy grail.
dave
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