NO humidity 😀 Hotter then blazes today though. Rain tommorow and friday which will be a good thing. You better beat me to the pawn shop on Queen st. I am going to head there Saturday before i leave for Montreal. 🙂
yer OK Noob, but the last couple of posts seemed to be a bit less of an overtired discussion; an upswing in content..... Most of the points have been repeated many times in threads of similar titles....
To pursue the pointless discussion: I think experienced listeners can detect differences in response between speakers...how gross? well that's the issue...
To pursue the pointless discussion: I think experienced listeners can detect differences in response between speakers...how gross? well that's the issue...
Variac said:
I plan to do some ABX testing when the enclosures I'm constructing now are done and I will do some wire testing....
should be pretty easy actually...
audiobomber said:
I wasn't joking when I said this happens to me with girls. It is standard human trait. Remember the last time you got a new car, how excited you were? Wears off, doesn't it. Did the car change? Not really, YOU did, there are now other things in the front spot of whatever concerns you these days. Happens all the time, girls, cars, speaker cables, new appartment. At a certain point, Nature protects us from overload automatically.
Jan Didden
Member
Joined 2004
Carlosfm wrote:
🙂
You can route a guitar mono signal through as many channels as the mixing desk provides, and send them to tape.
You can ask the guitar player to double or triple the part.
Or you can send a recorded mono signal to the stereo mix and place it in the stereo field (panned hard left, at 2 o´clock, dead center, wherever) to make room for other instruments. It depends on what kind of sound is to be achieved, but most of the time this is considered just plain boring. Common procedure is to add a bit of stereo FX like reverb, chorus or delay for ambience and interest, these in general contributing with all sorts of reflections wandering around the stereo image.
Another and purer way to capture a good stereo electric guitar sound is to run the guitar directly into the amplifier and place a microphone in front of the speaker to take advantage of the combo´s unique distortion and tone color. This would be the direct signal. If only this mic is used, it may be set to cardioid or figure of 8 mode, it will capture backwall refletions, but that will still be a mono signal. If we want to hear left-right room interaction for realism and sense of depth we really need to add a second set of microphones ("strategically" placed around the room) and mix the whole set-up at the desk.
Of course there also these new phisical-modelling technologies that provide all this hard work just by the press of a button. A great number of modern rock and pop recordings are actually done in front of a home computer and the ubiquitous Line 6´s POD, IK Multimedia´s Amplitube or Native instruments´ Guitar Rig effects processors. All of them are software simulations of the real thing, with a sound to reborn for.
There are so many ways to record an electric guitar... in a studio you can do whatever you like and the only limit is your creativeness, really.
Mega-buck studios are quickly turning into dinossaurs, BTW.
Hey, how do you record an electrical guitar in stereo?
Double the pick-ups?
🙂
You can route a guitar mono signal through as many channels as the mixing desk provides, and send them to tape.
You can ask the guitar player to double or triple the part.
Or you can send a recorded mono signal to the stereo mix and place it in the stereo field (panned hard left, at 2 o´clock, dead center, wherever) to make room for other instruments. It depends on what kind of sound is to be achieved, but most of the time this is considered just plain boring. Common procedure is to add a bit of stereo FX like reverb, chorus or delay for ambience and interest, these in general contributing with all sorts of reflections wandering around the stereo image.
Another and purer way to capture a good stereo electric guitar sound is to run the guitar directly into the amplifier and place a microphone in front of the speaker to take advantage of the combo´s unique distortion and tone color. This would be the direct signal. If only this mic is used, it may be set to cardioid or figure of 8 mode, it will capture backwall refletions, but that will still be a mono signal. If we want to hear left-right room interaction for realism and sense of depth we really need to add a second set of microphones ("strategically" placed around the room) and mix the whole set-up at the desk.
Of course there also these new phisical-modelling technologies that provide all this hard work just by the press of a button. A great number of modern rock and pop recordings are actually done in front of a home computer and the ubiquitous Line 6´s POD, IK Multimedia´s Amplitube or Native instruments´ Guitar Rig effects processors. All of them are software simulations of the real thing, with a sound to reborn for.
There are so many ways to record an electric guitar... in a studio you can do whatever you like and the only limit is your creativeness, really.
Mega-buck studios are quickly turning into dinossaurs, BTW.
You must be a happy man . . .
My father was a playboy . . .
I had and have number of wrist watches . . .
The copied . . .
The originals . . .
The divers’ . . .
Omega . . .
Casio . . .
Tag Heuer . . .
Swiss Army Wenger . . .
Mondaine . . .
Each of these has a minor different speed of time . . .
But, price is big different in vertical direction . . .
Still I look around to find new and nice one . . .
If I have some pocket money, why not . . . ? ? ?
I feel the same with speaker cables . . .
Regards, jH
Firstly, Variac, I hope I haven't been making my points on a second grade level. A lot of what I say is rather challenging of *the way things are*, understandably some people want to bring me down for such radical thinking.
Secondly, audiobomber, thank you for being the first person to respond to my posts, who seems to writing above a second grade level 😉
If your stereo can make music better than the real thing, I applaud you. Sadly, mine isn't at such a level as of yet.
Yes, recordings are the limiting factor. They are the first factor, therefore it's likely they will always be the most limiting.
As for stereo being the best we have, I have to disagree. Have a look here:
Ambisonics website
Click on introduction in the left hand menu, it will take you to an article, in my opinion, worthy of a little of everyones time. There are many such articles on that website, but that's by far the best one to start with.
Ambisonics has been around for about 30 years now, yet is a great example of classic british marketing ineptitude. A lot of recording artists/record labels of the time had splurged their money on quadrophonic reproduction systems, and weren't eager to take up another possible format failure.
Lastly, I don't really feel the need to say much more about speaker cables, although I admit, it's possible they can make a difference, positive or otherwise. I just feel people needlessly spend their time on things like speaker cables, when they are almost a triviality in comparison to some bigger problems that exist in many a *hi-fi* system today.
Secondly, audiobomber, thank you for being the first person to respond to my posts, who seems to writing above a second grade level 😉
If your stereo can make music better than the real thing, I applaud you. Sadly, mine isn't at such a level as of yet.
Yes, recordings are the limiting factor. They are the first factor, therefore it's likely they will always be the most limiting.
As for stereo being the best we have, I have to disagree. Have a look here:
Ambisonics website
Click on introduction in the left hand menu, it will take you to an article, in my opinion, worthy of a little of everyones time. There are many such articles on that website, but that's by far the best one to start with.
Ambisonics has been around for about 30 years now, yet is a great example of classic british marketing ineptitude. A lot of recording artists/record labels of the time had splurged their money on quadrophonic reproduction systems, and weren't eager to take up another possible format failure.
Lastly, I don't really feel the need to say much more about speaker cables, although I admit, it's possible they can make a difference, positive or otherwise. I just feel people needlessly spend their time on things like speaker cables, when they are almost a triviality in comparison to some bigger problems that exist in many a *hi-fi* system today.
derf said:
I've been reading about Ambisonics since it first came out, and I'm no closer to hearing it now than I was then.
I think there's a proper time in the life of a stereo system to look at improved cabling. Certainly a lot of audiophiles get carried away with it, and join the cable of the month club. I've met a few young guys who boasted that they had more invested in cabling than on their hi-fi systems. That is a ludicrous travesty.
audiobomber said:
It's farly much dead as a format. That's a pity because it works really, really well and tackles the REAL issues of sound reproduction (as opposed to the rather trivial matter of wires). Unfortunately, it is not amenable to the typical home stereo setup, one speaker up on a bookshelf, the other back behind a hatrack; it must be set up properly and carefully with the room optimized.
Unfortunately, SY is pretty much correct with regards to Ambisonic being dead, you can't even buy a new decoder anymore.
That's a fair enough comment. But a lot of people spend a lot of money on hi-fi gear, some go as far as diy'ing it, to get that bit closer to the event. Don't you think maybe just a few would be able to rearrange the room, if it got them one step closer to Nirvana?.
Even with the compromised positioning of the loudspeakers you've mentioned above, you can essentially tell the decoder where the speakers are situated, relative to the room. Ambisonics still remains the most accurate and most flexible surround sound format.
That's a fair enough comment. But a lot of people spend a lot of money on hi-fi gear, some go as far as diy'ing it, to get that bit closer to the event. Don't you think maybe just a few would be able to rearrange the room, if it got them one step closer to Nirvana?.
Even with the compromised positioning of the loudspeakers you've mentioned above, you can essentially tell the decoder where the speakers are situated, relative to the room. Ambisonics still remains the most accurate and most flexible surround sound format.
Economics 101
"Just a few" will not sustain a format, no matter how good. The number of people willing to go through the process of setting up an Ambisonics system is a ridiculously miniscule proportion of the market.
"Just a few" will not sustain a format, no matter how good. The number of people willing to go through the process of setting up an Ambisonics system is a ridiculously miniscule proportion of the market.
Re: Economics 101
Even if you went to the expense, the software selection is pathetically thin.
SY said:
Even if you went to the expense, the software selection is pathetically thin.
Well, that's the point. The hardware production is trivial and can indeed be a niche. Not so for the software...
Have attached The ART Audio SLA2 Studio Linear Amplifier 2 x 200 watt amp. To replace the ancient Pioneer SX-737 2 x 35 watt whatever it is (no fancy name here)
YA BABY ! ! I can Hear that . Thinking about shaking the wires and starting this whole mess again.
😀
Its a shame i just rented this amp for the weekend just to hear a difference. Took like 30 seconds
YA BABY ! ! I can Hear that . Thinking about shaking the wires and starting this whole mess again.
😀 Its a shame i just rented this amp for the weekend just to hear a difference. Took like 30 seconds
Member
Joined 2004
Originally posted by derf
Sorry, I´ll have to disagree on that: If we have to look at Hi-Fi as a means to convincingly replicate a live music performance, I say we need not go farer than stereo simply because humans have two ears, not four (or should that be 5.1?).
While listening to an ultra Hi-end system, if we keep thinking "hum... sounds great, but still not close to the real thing...", the stereo approach is not to blame, but it´s the recording technique and the listening environment that´s flawed.
I think there are two options for beating these flaws, always using a special set of microphones for capturing and a stereo system for playback (possibly with dipole speakers):
1- Recording inside an anechoic chamber and playback in a "normal" room;
2- Recording inside a normal environment and playback in an anechoic chamber.
First option seems to be the most "user-friendly" 😉
Alright, no digital processing, no Eq´ing (provided the microphones response curve are flat enough). All those natural colourations that contribute to what we call 3D effect will be originated by listening room response and nothing else.
There´s no need for a second pair of speakers playing backwall reflections because under these conditions the brain will decode every perceived sound into a single three-dimensional source.
Our senses function as a system, each one depending on the others for making us aware of the outside world. A good experiment is asking your beloved one to offer you
two different apples or whatever is at hand to taste, while you´re not being allowed to see nor smell them. Chances are you won´t distinguish a starking from a grannysmith. Or pork from beef.
So, it´s possible that one still needs say a visual aid to help visualizing a credible aural picture (punnnnnnnn) and sad to say, staring at glowing valves doesn´t help. Perhaps the current Home Theatre trend has a word or two to say.
But more than 2 speakers? No way
BTW here´s the stereo mic set I was referring to:
dummyhead
Yeah, yeah. If you´ve never seen this before don´t laugh. This is serious hi-tech from one of the oldest and most respected companies in the recording industry!
Cheers,
Sorry, I´ll have to disagree on that: If we have to look at Hi-Fi as a means to convincingly replicate a live music performance, I say we need not go farer than stereo simply because humans have two ears, not four (or should that be 5.1?).
While listening to an ultra Hi-end system, if we keep thinking "hum... sounds great, but still not close to the real thing...", the stereo approach is not to blame, but it´s the recording technique and the listening environment that´s flawed.
I think there are two options for beating these flaws, always using a special set of microphones for capturing and a stereo system for playback (possibly with dipole speakers):
1- Recording inside an anechoic chamber and playback in a "normal" room;
2- Recording inside a normal environment and playback in an anechoic chamber.
First option seems to be the most "user-friendly" 😉
Alright, no digital processing, no Eq´ing (provided the microphones response curve are flat enough). All those natural colourations that contribute to what we call 3D effect will be originated by listening room response and nothing else.
There´s no need for a second pair of speakers playing backwall reflections because under these conditions the brain will decode every perceived sound into a single three-dimensional source.
Our senses function as a system, each one depending on the others for making us aware of the outside world. A good experiment is asking your beloved one to offer you
two different apples or whatever is at hand to taste, while you´re not being allowed to see nor smell them. Chances are you won´t distinguish a starking from a grannysmith. Or pork from beef.
So, it´s possible that one still needs say a visual aid to help visualizing a credible aural picture (punnnnnnnn) and sad to say, staring at glowing valves doesn´t help. Perhaps the current Home Theatre trend has a word or two to say.
But more than 2 speakers? No way
BTW here´s the stereo mic set I was referring to:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
dummyhead
Yeah, yeah. If you´ve never seen this before don´t laugh. This is serious hi-tech from one of the oldest and most respected companies in the recording industry!
Cheers,
Member
Joined 2004
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