There is no reason not to use those boxes. They look as well made as modern boxes. As long as the particle board is 3/4" or more, it should be fine. Even 5/8" particle board will be okay in a compact box like that-smaller boxes are intrinsically rigid.
I only pointed to the age of the boxes to explain the hole arrangement. I think they used an 8" sealed woofer, a 3" midrange, and possibly a cone tweeter. And they did not mount them vertically, which was also common back then.
We can use or possibly enlarge one of the smaller holes to mount the port. It really doesn't matter where you put the port, although I would just as soon not put it behind grill cloth, if you use grill cloth. I have seen speakers with ports behind the grill cloth and they worked okay, but frankly I am a "free-breathing port" aficionado. If you want to block both holes, you can put the port in back-it makes no difference. Half the speaker manufacturers put it in back anyway.
Three companies that make nice tweeters for $15 to $20 apiece are Peerless, Vifa and Audax. Most any of them that fit will do you well.
I will give you a recommendation, but there are several Scandinavians on this forum with definite ideas about Peerless tweeters, (made in Copenhagen). Might not be a bad idea to open it up to the forum.
Another thing I will open up to the forum is the crossover. You see, the position of the tweeter should be taken into account when designing the crossover. "By the book" crossovers do not take this into account. The wavelength of 2,000 Hz is 6.5". I am trying to purposely mount the tweeter so the centers are one wavelength apart at crossover frequency. These things do affect response and they should be accounted for. That means we need a tweeter that is 3" high in the faceplate-which would put the center of the dome 6.5" inches from the center of the 10" speaker.
I just generally fiddle with the values until the response comes out right, but there are good programs that calculate these things, I believe. You don't want to go the route of trial-and-error, so I would rather put the question to one of our crossover experts.
I only pointed to the age of the boxes to explain the hole arrangement. I think they used an 8" sealed woofer, a 3" midrange, and possibly a cone tweeter. And they did not mount them vertically, which was also common back then.
We can use or possibly enlarge one of the smaller holes to mount the port. It really doesn't matter where you put the port, although I would just as soon not put it behind grill cloth, if you use grill cloth. I have seen speakers with ports behind the grill cloth and they worked okay, but frankly I am a "free-breathing port" aficionado. If you want to block both holes, you can put the port in back-it makes no difference. Half the speaker manufacturers put it in back anyway.
Three companies that make nice tweeters for $15 to $20 apiece are Peerless, Vifa and Audax. Most any of them that fit will do you well.
I will give you a recommendation, but there are several Scandinavians on this forum with definite ideas about Peerless tweeters, (made in Copenhagen). Might not be a bad idea to open it up to the forum.
Another thing I will open up to the forum is the crossover. You see, the position of the tweeter should be taken into account when designing the crossover. "By the book" crossovers do not take this into account. The wavelength of 2,000 Hz is 6.5". I am trying to purposely mount the tweeter so the centers are one wavelength apart at crossover frequency. These things do affect response and they should be accounted for. That means we need a tweeter that is 3" high in the faceplate-which would put the center of the dome 6.5" inches from the center of the 10" speaker.
I just generally fiddle with the values until the response comes out right, but there are good programs that calculate these things, I believe. You don't want to go the route of trial-and-error, so I would rather put the question to one of our crossover experts.
Is that genuine veneer on those boxes? From the photograph it looks like it. If so, you might want to buy some grill foam from Radio Shack to use instead of grill cloth. You can cut it into any shape you want, and you can just cover the drivers so people can see the veneer in front. A round foam piece covers the 10" woofer, etc.
Some modern speakers do that so the veneer is shown in front. Design ideas are up to you.
Some modern speakers do that so the veneer is shown in front. Design ideas are up to you.
Okay, did a quick check. The Peerless 811815 from Madisound or Parts Express for $17 each look good from here. Crossover something like 1900 Hz.
To be mounted directly above the woofer-should be virtually no space between the edges.
Will put this up to the forum tomorrow. Will include the fact that the centers of the woofer and tweeter are precisely one wavelength apart at the crossover frequency.
To be mounted directly above the woofer-should be virtually no space between the edges.
Will put this up to the forum tomorrow. Will include the fact that the centers of the woofer and tweeter are precisely one wavelength apart at the crossover frequency.
The holes can be plugged acoustically simply by reaching into the woofer hole and gluing a piece of wood over the holes from the inside. Any piece of wood 1/2" thicker will do. Small = rigid, after all.
Plugging them from the outside is another story. If you have 3/4 inch particle board or wood handy-or know anyone who has it, (virtually any friend who does woodworking), then cut a round piece to fit in the hole. It might be a good idea cut this before you fit the supporting piece underneath. This will be better than simply fitting a round piece in the hole without a piece underneath, unless you are so sure that the round piece will fit in the box with no air leaks whatsoever.
Since the woofer and tweeter are both black, painting the face of the plugs flat black before you fit them should fit right in the visual scheme of things.
If all this sounds too rinky-dink, you might consider just plugging the holes form the inside as I stated before, fitting in the round plugs with glue and wood filler to fill any cracks, sanding them down, and fitting a new piece of veneer over the whole front. I would leave the sides alone, since they look very attractive.
I haven't checked the price of veneer lately, but a few years ago some self-sticking veneer wasn't all that expensive. If you have any confidence that you can color match on a spare piece, that would probably be a good way to go. Depends on how much self-stick veneer goes for these days.
It's up to you on which way to go. If you like the size and dimensions of that box, I wouldn't build a new one. There would be no gain to do so, that I can see. Re-veneering the front is as drastic as I would go, and that might not even be necessary if you want to try the "black plug" route.
Or, of course, you can just do a pedestrian plug job on the holes and use the grill cloth to cover the whole deal in front. You would have that nice veneer over the top and sides, still.
The box is nice enough looking that displaying the front, with or without grill foam to cover the woofer and tweeter, is an option. Some people think that drivers look nice and don't cover them. I am one of those.
Plugging them from the outside is another story. If you have 3/4 inch particle board or wood handy-or know anyone who has it, (virtually any friend who does woodworking), then cut a round piece to fit in the hole. It might be a good idea cut this before you fit the supporting piece underneath. This will be better than simply fitting a round piece in the hole without a piece underneath, unless you are so sure that the round piece will fit in the box with no air leaks whatsoever.
Since the woofer and tweeter are both black, painting the face of the plugs flat black before you fit them should fit right in the visual scheme of things.
If all this sounds too rinky-dink, you might consider just plugging the holes form the inside as I stated before, fitting in the round plugs with glue and wood filler to fill any cracks, sanding them down, and fitting a new piece of veneer over the whole front. I would leave the sides alone, since they look very attractive.
I haven't checked the price of veneer lately, but a few years ago some self-sticking veneer wasn't all that expensive. If you have any confidence that you can color match on a spare piece, that would probably be a good way to go. Depends on how much self-stick veneer goes for these days.
It's up to you on which way to go. If you like the size and dimensions of that box, I wouldn't build a new one. There would be no gain to do so, that I can see. Re-veneering the front is as drastic as I would go, and that might not even be necessary if you want to try the "black plug" route.
Or, of course, you can just do a pedestrian plug job on the holes and use the grill cloth to cover the whole deal in front. You would have that nice veneer over the top and sides, still.
The box is nice enough looking that displaying the front, with or without grill foam to cover the woofer and tweeter, is an option. Some people think that drivers look nice and don't cover them. I am one of those.
One more thing. If you do decide to go the re-veneer route and a router is handy, (but your router guide requires a hole in the center), then I suggest the following. Plug the woofer hole much the same way as the other holes and use a hole in the center of the plug for the router guide. Instead of a trying to fit a piece that covers the woofer hole from the inside, (impossible to fit through the woofer hole), just fit a couple of 1" strips underneath, running parallel, to prevent the woofer plug from falling through while routing.
Doing this will give you the chance to cut grooves for the frame of the woofer and tweeter to rest into so their fronts are flush with the face of the enclosure. This is not necessary, but visually recommended if the tools are handy. If not, you can just mount the woofer and tweeter on the outside of the box. Lots of people do.
Doing this will give you the chance to cut grooves for the frame of the woofer and tweeter to rest into so their fronts are flush with the face of the enclosure. This is not necessary, but visually recommended if the tools are handy. If not, you can just mount the woofer and tweeter on the outside of the box. Lots of people do.
Wow thanks for the info Kelticwizard. I can't start the project immediatley but within the next couple of weeks I plan to order the speakers.
I'm excited to try this out. If it works out good I might invest in some tools so I can make my own boxes for future projects. You and the rest of the people here are an invaluable asset. Thanks a lot for your help.
Ian
I'm excited to try this out. If it works out good I might invest in some tools so I can make my own boxes for future projects. You and the rest of the people here are an invaluable asset. Thanks a lot for your help.
Ian
Kinsale:
Thanks for the kind words. Have you made up your mind as to whether you plan to cover the front with grill cloth, re-veneer, or whatever? If not, let me know what you decide when you do decide.
Meanwhile, I am going to nail this woofer-tweeter reinforcement at crossover frequencies thing once and for all, perhaps running some experiments this weekend. I want to know this for my own knowledge-I already have some spare woofers and tweeters.
Keep me posted on what you decide and the various design decisions you make. I think what you are doing-putting quality components in a good, well-made second hand box-is one good way to get good sound for not a lot of money.
Keep me and the rest of the forum posted on your project, including pictures of the finished speakers.
Thanks for the kind words. Have you made up your mind as to whether you plan to cover the front with grill cloth, re-veneer, or whatever? If not, let me know what you decide when you do decide.
Meanwhile, I am going to nail this woofer-tweeter reinforcement at crossover frequencies thing once and for all, perhaps running some experiments this weekend. I want to know this for my own knowledge-I already have some spare woofers and tweeters.
Keep me posted on what you decide and the various design decisions you make. I think what you are doing-putting quality components in a good, well-made second hand box-is one good way to get good sound for not a lot of money.
Keep me and the rest of the forum posted on your project, including pictures of the finished speakers.
Kinsale:
Just one thing I wanted to include about the woofer. The Peerless CSX 10" is a modification of the old Peerless CSC 260 subwoofer.
That subwoofer had a very long excursion-3/8 of an inch, as well as symmetric drive to cut distortion. The longer the excursion, the more bass can be produced. And it was inexpensive.
The new subwoofers have longer excursions-between 1/2" and 1", some of them. However, for a long time that Peerless CSC had an excursion that was as long as it got.
Peerless simply fitted that subwoofer with a composite cone that stayed smooth through the midrance, and that is the CSX 10" speaker.
Since it basically a very good subwoofer outfitted with a modern cone for midrange use, this speaker will put out big bass when big bass is called for. Most two way speakers are deficient in bass since the speaker has to handle the midrange as well, causing the bass to suffer.
Not here. It can hold it's own as a subwoofer. In fact, for $63, it might be the best subwoofer in that price range you can buy. The new materials in the cone enable it to handle the midrange as well.
Just thought I would let you know that. After all, I am sure you are still open to suggestions for parts, until you order them.
Just one thing I wanted to include about the woofer. The Peerless CSX 10" is a modification of the old Peerless CSC 260 subwoofer.
That subwoofer had a very long excursion-3/8 of an inch, as well as symmetric drive to cut distortion. The longer the excursion, the more bass can be produced. And it was inexpensive.
The new subwoofers have longer excursions-between 1/2" and 1", some of them. However, for a long time that Peerless CSC had an excursion that was as long as it got.
Peerless simply fitted that subwoofer with a composite cone that stayed smooth through the midrance, and that is the CSX 10" speaker.
Since it basically a very good subwoofer outfitted with a modern cone for midrange use, this speaker will put out big bass when big bass is called for. Most two way speakers are deficient in bass since the speaker has to handle the midrange as well, causing the bass to suffer.
Not here. It can hold it's own as a subwoofer. In fact, for $63, it might be the best subwoofer in that price range you can buy. The new materials in the cone enable it to handle the midrange as well.
Just thought I would let you know that. After all, I am sure you are still open to suggestions for parts, until you order them.
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