Good advice
Dave -glad you like them. Give the drivers a good thrashing for an hour or so -bass heavy stuff -Metallica, Prodigy, Massive Attack, you know the sort of thing. That should do it. Try a thinner run of cable too: I use a single pair of 24AWG conductors extracted from a run of Cat5 for mine. Worked well with Steve's 2A3s, better still with Steve Shiels's frighteningly good 4 watt PX25 (?) based masterpiece. Glad you like them, slight issue notwithstanding. It's useful to know about any problems that arise so future versions can be tweaked to counter these. I reckon you'll find they'll come on-song soon though.
Best
Scott
Dave -glad you like them. Give the drivers a good thrashing for an hour or so -bass heavy stuff -Metallica, Prodigy, Massive Attack, you know the sort of thing. That should do it. Try a thinner run of cable too: I use a single pair of 24AWG conductors extracted from a run of Cat5 for mine. Worked well with Steve's 2A3s, better still with Steve Shiels's frighteningly good 4 watt PX25 (?) based masterpiece. Glad you like them, slight issue notwithstanding. It's useful to know about any problems that arise so future versions can be tweaked to counter these. I reckon you'll find they'll come on-song soon though.
Best
Scott
I've got 4-pair cat6 per side at the moment - I'll try single pair this evening. Call me dim if you like, but it took a while before the reason why it would likely be a good move sank in!
Another poss as I mentioned above is a bit of panel damping. Rough calcs suggest I could lose around 3-5% of CC volume by doing this. Would this affect the overall response significantly?
Cheers
Dave
Another poss as I mentioned above is a bit of panel damping. Rough calcs suggest I could lose around 3-5% of CC volume by doing this. Would this affect the overall response significantly?
Cheers
Dave
Dear Scott,
Referring to your reply to my question in "BIB and underwear, nothing on top"
For FE126 and FX120, will dimension of the cab. different from that in page 1 of this thread. My intention is that if the cabin dimension is same, I will try a cheaper driver first and then upgrade in the future. Beside, I am going to build it by bending thin plywood as I raised in post#150 in this thread. Could you suggest how I can calculate the expansion curve. (i.e. the horn height along the horn length)
Many thanks again
Referring to your reply to my question in "BIB and underwear, nothing on top"
For FE126 and FX120, will dimension of the cab. different from that in page 1 of this thread. My intention is that if the cabin dimension is same, I will try a cheaper driver first and then upgrade in the future. Beside, I am going to build it by bending thin plywood as I raised in post#150 in this thread. Could you suggest how I can calculate the expansion curve. (i.e. the horn height along the horn length)
Many thanks again
Same cabinet. Just try to follow the plans as closely as possible.
FWIW, I built mine with nothing more than a (blunt) 30 year old hand saw. No mitre box or anything. And no; I'm not any good at woodworking. The internal joints are cut as accurately as I could manage, which isn't difficult if you take your time and measure properly, then covered with lots of sealant just to be sure. I've yet to hear any complains about the sonics.
FWIW, I built mine with nothing more than a (blunt) 30 year old hand saw. No mitre box or anything. And no; I'm not any good at woodworking. The internal joints are cut as accurately as I could manage, which isn't difficult if you take your time and measure properly, then covered with lots of sealant just to be sure. I've yet to hear any complains about the sonics.
Scottmoose said:
I don't know if that will be the case, you should brace the MDF -- i'd run some vertical edge on hardwood (or plywood) from top to bottom on the sides & back (externally). Plywood is really best for building these boxes and the size has actually been tailored to get them out of 5x5 sheets of BB.
dave
PS: solid core 24g is recommended over stranded.
Dear Scott,
Before I made a wood cutting plan, there are some dimensions (A,B,C) in the attached drawing I would like to confirm first (because I am a new bee in DIY speaker and I am not quite sure whether these dimensions are critical or not)
A. CC outlet gap width
B. Horn inlet gap width (do you think it is beneficial to round off the sharp corner?)
C. Horn starting gap width
Besides,
1. Is the size of compression chamber same for FX120 and FE126E(i.e. 14.1 ltr).
2. Is the width for the cabinet same for FX120 and FE126E (i.e. 6.75inch).
3. Do I need to add any stuffing inside the compression chamber. (I am going to use ply wood to build the cabinet, not sure a good idea or not)
Many thanks again.
Vangogh-hk
Before I made a wood cutting plan, there are some dimensions (A,B,C) in the attached drawing I would like to confirm first (because I am a new bee in DIY speaker and I am not quite sure whether these dimensions are critical or not)
A. CC outlet gap width
B. Horn inlet gap width (do you think it is beneficial to round off the sharp corner?)
C. Horn starting gap width
Besides,
1. Is the size of compression chamber same for FX120 and FE126E(i.e. 14.1 ltr).
2. Is the width for the cabinet same for FX120 and FE126E (i.e. 6.75inch).
3. Do I need to add any stuffing inside the compression chamber. (I am going to use ply wood to build the cabinet, not sure a good idea or not)
Many thanks again.
Vangogh-hk
Attachments
Ply is by far the best material for these.
The single rear throat is 1in tall. Each horizontal throat is the cabinet width (6.75in), and 0.75in deep. Don't bother rounding the corners: this design has a narrow passband and bass isn;t worried if it's smooth or rough. I'd keep the sharp edges actually as they'll help scatter any unwanted HF that might leak through.
I haven't changed anything for the FX or other drivers. All dimensions remain constant. The individual builder can play with that if they wish to; like the Frugelhorn, this is an open source project. However, they'll work nicely as-is. I lined the base of the filter chamber with a thin piece of damping material, but nothing else. Probably doesn't even need that to be honest, especially if ply is used. Again, you can experiment to find what suits you best.
Regards
Scott
The single rear throat is 1in tall. Each horizontal throat is the cabinet width (6.75in), and 0.75in deep. Don't bother rounding the corners: this design has a narrow passband and bass isn;t worried if it's smooth or rough. I'd keep the sharp edges actually as they'll help scatter any unwanted HF that might leak through.
I haven't changed anything for the FX or other drivers. All dimensions remain constant. The individual builder can play with that if they wish to; like the Frugelhorn, this is an open source project. However, they'll work nicely as-is. I lined the base of the filter chamber with a thin piece of damping material, but nothing else. Probably doesn't even need that to be honest, especially if ply is used. Again, you can experiment to find what suits you best.
Regards
Scott
Thanks, and wow!
Many thanks for the helpful suggestions in response to my earlier whining - this is indeed a very special place!
The single run of wire was indeed a good idea, it 'balanced' the sound much better, and looks wonderfully counter-intuitive (cable that thin shouldn't work!), but didn't completely remove the high-mid harshness.
I sneaked my set-up into the living room last weekend, and found out what these speakers are all about, yep I finally experienced the 'huge great pair of headphones' effect! Such a big and effortless sound - amazing!
Next on my practical learning course 'Full-Rangers for Noobs 101' came the (obvious) fact of improvements coming from what you remove from the sound - it feels a bit like peeling an onion to find gold in the centre, if that makes any sense!
Listening showed that the harshness was mostly due to high-freq spill through the horns, giving also a slight 'big head' effect on vocals especially, so I looked at ways to reduce this.
First off, I added a 60% coverage of thin self-adhesive bitumen (flashing strip - much cheaper than a roll of felt when I only needed a small amount). This peeled back a layer, allowing me to hear a boxyness underneath.
A slight interlude with a pair of BiBs showed me that a thin layer of wadding works for my ears to reduce the harshness (although sadly the BiBs didn't work that well in my room - wherever I placed them, they hit a nasty room resonance square on (think foghorn!).
Back to the double-horns, I added a thin (3/4") layer of wadding over all CC surfaces, making sure I left the vent clear.
WOW! To my ears at least, they are now among the most effortless and articulate (I was going to say big, but that goes without saying!) speakers that I have ever had! My valve amp now sounds like a valve amp again, and I'm having terrific fun scaring the neighbours!
I may try some heavy-duty underlay in the CC to see if it damps the highs as well while perhaps letting the speakers 'breathe' more easily (but then Tunes would do the same, I suppose ), or then again I might just leave them alone (this is more likely - I've just put some 'Doors' on, and Jims's alive, I tell you!)
The only fly in the ointment now is that the drivers don't match. When I frazzed one driver a few months back, I only bought one replacement, so now the image is a tad lop-sided (but still brill!)
So, in a nutshell, I'm now a VERY happy bunny indeed!
Cheers
Dave
Many thanks for the helpful suggestions in response to my earlier whining - this is indeed a very special place!
The single run of wire was indeed a good idea, it 'balanced' the sound much better, and looks wonderfully counter-intuitive (cable that thin shouldn't work!), but didn't completely remove the high-mid harshness.
I sneaked my set-up into the living room last weekend, and found out what these speakers are all about, yep I finally experienced the 'huge great pair of headphones' effect! Such a big and effortless sound - amazing!
Next on my practical learning course 'Full-Rangers for Noobs 101' came the (obvious) fact of improvements coming from what you remove from the sound - it feels a bit like peeling an onion to find gold in the centre, if that makes any sense!
Listening showed that the harshness was mostly due to high-freq spill through the horns, giving also a slight 'big head' effect on vocals especially, so I looked at ways to reduce this.
First off, I added a 60% coverage of thin self-adhesive bitumen (flashing strip - much cheaper than a roll of felt when I only needed a small amount). This peeled back a layer, allowing me to hear a boxyness underneath.
A slight interlude with a pair of BiBs showed me that a thin layer of wadding works for my ears to reduce the harshness (although sadly the BiBs didn't work that well in my room - wherever I placed them, they hit a nasty room resonance square on (think foghorn!).
Back to the double-horns, I added a thin (3/4") layer of wadding over all CC surfaces, making sure I left the vent clear.
WOW! To my ears at least, they are now among the most effortless and articulate (I was going to say big, but that goes without saying!) speakers that I have ever had! My valve amp now sounds like a valve amp again, and I'm having terrific fun scaring the neighbours!
I may try some heavy-duty underlay in the CC to see if it damps the highs as well while perhaps letting the speakers 'breathe' more easily (but then Tunes would do the same, I suppose
), or then again I might just leave them alone (this is more likely - I've just put some 'Doors' on, and Jims's alive, I tell you!)The only fly in the ointment now is that the drivers don't match. When I frazzed one driver a few months back, I only bought one replacement, so now the image is a tad lop-sided (but still brill!)
So, in a nutshell, I'm now a VERY happy bunny indeed!
Cheers
Dave
Re: Hey Scott what about this....
Someone over here is asking if cryoing cables makes a diff :^)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=91141
Figured this was on topic since i am talking thin cable over there and dave/dfreemansc found skinny cable useful in Harvey...
dave
moray james said:
Someone over here is asking if cryoing cables makes a diff :^)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=91141
Figured this was on topic since i am talking thin cable over there and dave/dfreemansc found skinny cable useful in Harvey...
dave
Re: Hey Scott what about this....
Looked up the patent. patent image - need tiff viewer! It's a front horn, but a funky one at that...
Took a look at the math. It's a front horn with a front resonator (so maybe a little OT), variable height slot port, reputedly working over a broad frequency range. They claim 60 - 600 Hz, emphasis on use for stadium bass. Wonder if it would pass HF with a full-ranger? Wonder if all those curves might "break" HF beaming?
The math makes my head hurt.
But the curves look really cool.
The way-cool figure is a double horn, not shown (see figure 1 if you look up the patent). And I can think of a couple of ways to turn it from a box to vertical.
How to model... maybe this is where I confess my hobby to the colleague whose Ph.D. is in acoustics.
moray james said:
Looked up the patent. patent image - need tiff viewer! It's a front horn, but a funky one at that...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Took a look at the math. It's a front horn with a front resonator (so maybe a little OT), variable height slot port, reputedly working over a broad frequency range. They claim 60 - 600 Hz, emphasis on use for stadium bass. Wonder if it would pass HF with a full-ranger? Wonder if all those curves might "break" HF beaming?
The math makes my head hurt.
But the curves look really cool. The way-cool figure is a double horn, not shown (see figure 1 if you look up the patent). And I can think of a couple of ways to turn it from a box to vertical.
How to model...
maybe this is where I confess my hobby to the colleague whose Ph.D. is in acoustics.
Interesting. OK guys,
The time has come, the Moose said,
To talk of many things,
Of short double horns, and large filter chambers,
But mostly of long path double horns with small chambers for the FE126E and FE108ESigma.
The Harvey, Iris & Bruce BVR designs appear to have gone down well generally, but it was always the intent to bring some sister models forward, with a long pathlength and small chamber. You didn't really expect them to be regular though did you? No? Oh good. Just got the first pass CAD drawings back from Dave & they have potential: see attached FR plot. They use the Nagaoka stepped expansion a la Fostex horns, for ease of construction, and to help cram the longest possible line into the box. Also, the best of my knowledge, while there are several MathCad designed horns out there, no-one's done a stepped horn from scratch in the worksheets before. Red rag to a bull. Besides, horns or notif you've heard a good stepped design, you'll know just how well they can work.
Same height as Harvey, a little narrower, and a little deeper. Plans should appear soon once we've made a few refinements. All credit to Dave for his CAD magic and his patience in being able to interpret my terrible hand-drawings and insane notation.
Haven't decided on a name for this one yet. Possibly Loreena (after Loreena McKennitt).
Scott
The time has come, the Moose said,
To talk of many things,
Of short double horns, and large filter chambers,
But mostly of long path double horns with small chambers for the FE126E and FE108ESigma.
The Harvey, Iris & Bruce BVR designs appear to have gone down well generally, but it was always the intent to bring some sister models forward, with a long pathlength and small chamber. You didn't really expect them to be regular though did you? No? Oh good. Just got the first pass CAD drawings back from Dave & they have potential: see attached FR plot. They use the Nagaoka stepped expansion a la Fostex horns, for ease of construction, and to help cram the longest possible line into the box. Also, the best of my knowledge, while there are several MathCad designed horns out there, no-one's done a stepped horn from scratch in the worksheets before. Red rag to a bull.
Besides, horns or notif you've heard a good stepped design, you'll know just how well they can work. Same height as Harvey, a little narrower, and a little deeper. Plans should appear soon once we've made a few refinements. All credit to Dave for his CAD magic and his patience in being able to interpret my terrible hand-drawings and insane notation.
Haven't decided on a name for this one yet. Possibly Loreena (after Loreena McKennitt).
Scott
Attachments
