I'm looking to build a small-ish soundbar and would like recommendations for a high-quality 3"-4" full range driver. My budget for drivers is up to $100
For now, I am planning to run these without a sub, in some custom printed (yes 3D printed) bass reflex enclosures that will hang on the top of my tv. The drivers will be angled down, and the majority of the enclosure will be hidden behind the TV panel so I am not limited on enclosure volume. The ports will likely be on the top of the enclosures.
I am currently building some 3d printed PC speakers using the Aurasound NS3 drivers. While the initial tests are promising, I am worried that they may not be a good fit for my living room (17'x13.5') given the large space. Eventually I will add a minidsp to do basic roomeq, but I'm really looking for a driver that has a reasonably flat response, and can go relatively low (I'd be happy with 80-100 Hz even) in a bass reflex enclosure.
For now, I am planning to run these without a sub, in some custom printed (yes 3D printed) bass reflex enclosures that will hang on the top of my tv. The drivers will be angled down, and the majority of the enclosure will be hidden behind the TV panel so I am not limited on enclosure volume. The ports will likely be on the top of the enclosures.
I am currently building some 3d printed PC speakers using the Aurasound NS3 drivers. While the initial tests are promising, I am worried that they may not be a good fit for my living room (17'x13.5') given the large space. Eventually I will add a minidsp to do basic roomeq, but I'm really looking for a driver that has a reasonably flat response, and can go relatively low (I'd be happy with 80-100 Hz even) in a bass reflex enclosure.
I got some SB Acoustics SB65WBAC25-4 to make some small speakers with, they will be used together with a couple of Tang Band W6-1139SI 6-1/2".
I've calculated enclosure volume to about 25 liters inclusive port, the design will be inherently peaky, but using a 48Hz 4th order HP BW filter the response should be ruler flat to 40hz, and then drop like a rock under this.
Gonna use them as monitors with my computer desk, and they will double as compact party speakers to use with a TPA3251 powered by 36v power tool battery packs.
Does not require any sub.
The Fountek FE85 3" would also be a good choice, and also cheaper.
I've calculated enclosure volume to about 25 liters inclusive port, the design will be inherently peaky, but using a 48Hz 4th order HP BW filter the response should be ruler flat to 40hz, and then drop like a rock under this.
Gonna use them as monitors with my computer desk, and they will double as compact party speakers to use with a TPA3251 powered by 36v power tool battery packs.
Does not require any sub.
The Fountek FE85 3" would also be a good choice, and also cheaper.
Is this going to be a L-R setup only, or L-C-R?
How much space do you have behind the TV?
A small bass reflex, with a 3" driver, will not produce a lot of bass in a big room.
Thes suggestions are for a 2.0, L-R system.
If you have about 12cm (about 5") behind, then a couple of TABAQs, mounted horizontally on the wall behind the TV with the port facing up instead of forward would give some feeling of bass.
The TABAQs are one design where the impression of bass is there, even with a 3 or 4" driver.
I am playing with the SB65 at the moment and I must say, it sounds very nice... but it won't give you bass.
If you have 7" behind the TV, SBA also has a new 5"x8" woofer that sounds very nice. That also could be mounted facing up. It would be very easy to implement them using a miniDSP unit. BTW, get the HD version and hook up a digital input... that way you can bypass the extra decoding needed in the original unit and have a much cleaner sound.
How much space do you have behind the TV?
A small bass reflex, with a 3" driver, will not produce a lot of bass in a big room.
Thes suggestions are for a 2.0, L-R system.
If you have about 12cm (about 5") behind, then a couple of TABAQs, mounted horizontally on the wall behind the TV with the port facing up instead of forward would give some feeling of bass.
The TABAQs are one design where the impression of bass is there, even with a 3 or 4" driver.
I am playing with the SB65 at the moment and I must say, it sounds very nice... but it won't give you bass.
If you have 7" behind the TV, SBA also has a new 5"x8" woofer that sounds very nice. That also could be mounted facing up. It would be very easy to implement them using a miniDSP unit. BTW, get the HD version and hook up a digital input... that way you can bypass the extra decoding needed in the original unit and have a much cleaner sound.
I would love to do L-C-R, but I haven't found an amp board that I like that is capable of doing 3.0/3.1
My TV is mounted in the corner above the fireplace (as a side note, I say "BOOOOO!!" to the architect who made that the only appropriate place for a TV in the room), so I have between 7" to 21" of space. And it's a 60" TV that is 33" tall, so I have loads of space for a good size enclosure.
I kinda like the FE85 mentioned by KaffiMan, since it has a very flat response that should be easy to tweak to flat with a MiniDSP and REW.
The 5"x8" driver from SBA is interesting, and had not previously considered going with a slot shaped driver. It definitely has a much better low end, which is lacking on all the 3" drivers. It is a bit bigger than I initially wanted, but if it means I can spend my money on a MiniDSP HD instead of buying a sub down the line, that might be a worthy trade off.
Generally speaking, if I'm planning to use DSP, is it better to get a driver with good low end and DSP the highend, or vice-versa?
I think you'd be better off avoid doing any EQ at all on the FE85, only a HP filter to protect it from over-excursion.
The cheaper Tang Band W6-1139SIF is under 60 USD on PE:
Tang Band W6-1139SIF 6-1/2" Paper Cone Subwoofer Speaker
Chuck the 1139SIF in sealed volumes around maybe 10 liters each and use EQ and power to compensate. Don't try to get bass from the FE85, use the DSP magic on the 1139SIF. A 2nd order bessel xo around 3-400hz will probably get you 99% of the way with the FE85. Needs to be separate compartments inside the "soundbar" ofcourse. Each FE85 just needs a tiny volume by itself.
The cheaper Tang Band W6-1139SIF is under 60 USD on PE:
Tang Band W6-1139SIF 6-1/2" Paper Cone Subwoofer Speaker
Chuck the 1139SIF in sealed volumes around maybe 10 liters each and use EQ and power to compensate. Don't try to get bass from the FE85, use the DSP magic on the 1139SIF. A 2nd order bessel xo around 3-400hz will probably get you 99% of the way with the FE85. Needs to be separate compartments inside the "soundbar" ofcourse. Each FE85 just needs a tiny volume by itself.
So would I be using the 1139SIF as a sub with the FE85s as my mid/high? Or would I pair each FE85 with a 1139SIF and use 2 xo's, with 4 different chambers in the enclosure?
I was hoping to go pure full range for the simplicity, and because I have doubts about 3d printing a subwoofer enclosure. However, I think that the price of FE85s leaves me enough budget room to consider a crossover and a simple wooden box for the sub.
Also, if I use the MiniDSP and a basic power amp board, what should I do for volume control? I need to be able to use IR for the WAF.
I was hoping to go pure full range for the simplicity, and because I have doubts about 3d printing a subwoofer enclosure. However, I think that the price of FE85s leaves me enough budget room to consider a crossover and a simple wooden box for the sub.
Also, if I use the MiniDSP and a basic power amp board, what should I do for volume control? I need to be able to use IR for the WAF.
Yes, on both questions. But mostly the latter.
Yes, 4 internal compartments, if you use 10 liters for each 11398SIF, and make a long section of wood, maybe use pre-cut material for simplicity, need a board in the middle that doubles for separation and bracing. Then you could 3d print the ends with something that will acommodate the FE85's.
Then you got a soundbar = long box kind of thing.
Like Perceval says, the minidsp is a one-stop solution for everything except power stage.
Edit:
Be sure to attach it very well to your wall, those 1139SIF can move a lot!
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Thats great to hear that MiniDSP has IR volume control. None of the amp boards I've been looking at have volume control, and I was worried I'd need to get a separate pre-amp. I think the only thing I don't like about the minidsp is the form factor. I suppose I can put the IR receiver on a wire that way I can hide the module behind the center wood panel.
For the amps, I am thinking of using something based on the TDA7492. These ones from Sure look like they would be good fits:
WONDOM | STORE
WONDOM | STORE
I did some quick CAD mock-ups over the weekend, and it looks like I could potentially print all 4 speaker chambers. Then I would use some wooden boards to secure everything together, and to make the center chamber that holds all the electronics. The center is also where I could put the tv on top of the system (the 6.5" drivers would not be very stable sitting on the tv).
Here are a few screen caps of what the setup might look like. Only the driver cutouts and overall dims are accurate, the chamber and port sizes are approximate.
The TV and soundbar in my living room
Back view of the soundbar showing chambers and proposed port locations.
Front view of the soundbar with hidden lines showing chambers and port.
For the amps, I am thinking of using something based on the TDA7492. These ones from Sure look like they would be good fits:
WONDOM | STORE
WONDOM | STORE
I did some quick CAD mock-ups over the weekend, and it looks like I could potentially print all 4 speaker chambers. Then I would use some wooden boards to secure everything together, and to make the center chamber that holds all the electronics. The center is also where I could put the tv on top of the system (the 6.5" drivers would not be very stable sitting on the tv).
Here are a few screen caps of what the setup might look like. Only the driver cutouts and overall dims are accurate, the chamber and port sizes are approximate.
The TV and soundbar in my living room
Back view of the soundbar showing chambers and proposed port locations.
Front view of the soundbar with hidden lines showing chambers and port.
I suggested a closed volume for simplicity, but if you have that much space, might as well use it.
What are the internal dimensions? Have you done any calculations on the response?
Can probably use all the space and place the ports in the middle might be beneficial.
Gives us some numbers to figure out the tuning properly
What are the internal dimensions? Have you done any calculations on the response?
Can probably use all the space and place the ports in the middle might be beneficial.
Gives us some numbers to figure out the tuning properly
I have not done any formal enclosure sizing calcs yet. The small box for the FE85 is based on the sealed enclosure listed on the Parts Express website.
Here is a quick and dirty dimensional drawing (all numbers are inches) showing the maximum extent for the enclosure. I have sized everything with 1/2" plywood/MDF. The three braces in the center are required (and I may have to add a fourth) because they will be supporting the full weight of the 60" TV. (The drawing views, from top to bottom, are: back, top front)
If I can leave the back between the braces open, I would love to have the ports vent there, so that I only have the 4 drivers visible from the front. The total volume available for each channel is ~29 liters, and that could grow some if the system depth (10.75in) is increased.
What is a recommended calculator or software package for determining the proper sizing of each driver chamber and the port dimensions?
Here is a quick and dirty dimensional drawing (all numbers are inches) showing the maximum extent for the enclosure. I have sized everything with 1/2" plywood/MDF. The three braces in the center are required (and I may have to add a fourth) because they will be supporting the full weight of the 60" TV. (The drawing views, from top to bottom, are: back, top front)
If I can leave the back between the braces open, I would love to have the ports vent there, so that I only have the 4 drivers visible from the front. The total volume available for each channel is ~29 liters, and that could grow some if the system depth (10.75in) is increased.
What is a recommended calculator or software package for determining the proper sizing of each driver chamber and the port dimensions?
Plenty sims out there..
WInIsd is good enough for a simple sealed or vented box.
QSpeaker is cute, and very easy to understand, but gives less information than WinIsd.
If you don't like the form factor of the miniDSP 2x4 HD, you could order the board only and make your own box for it.
Or, for a bit more money, you could get the SHD, which has everything the little unit has, plus a streamer, a better DAC, Volumio, ...
WInIsd is good enough for a simple sealed or vented box.
QSpeaker is cute, and very easy to understand, but gives less information than WinIsd.
If you don't like the form factor of the miniDSP 2x4 HD, you could order the board only and make your own box for it.
Or, for a bit more money, you could get the SHD, which has everything the little unit has, plus a streamer, a better DAC, Volumio, ...
I'll take a look at winisd and see what I get.
As for the formfactor, my gripe is with the fact that the inputs and the outputs are on opposite sides of the board. It makes it difficult to hide while still leaving the IR sensor in a spot that it can receive the signal. The SHD would be nice, but this build is already quickly exceeding my initial projected budget.
As for the formfactor, my gripe is with the fact that the inputs and the outputs are on opposite sides of the board. It makes it difficult to hide while still leaving the IR sensor in a spot that it can receive the signal. The SHD would be nice, but this build is already quickly exceeding my initial projected budget.
minibear, my point was that if you put the ports in the middle, they will not interfere with the FE85 and very likely make the 1139SIF response smoother, placing the port on the sides like you did, might compromise the performance of both the FE85 and the 1139SIF.
I'd make one slot port per woofer in the center, and one divider in the middle, then you'd have your three boards for structural integrity, albeit a bit closer than you drew them. This would also make the box easier to make on the ends, since you can just let the FE85 have the whole volume with the angled board, and let the 1139SIF take the straight section. This will have some other benefits as well.
I think you can get quite a lot of bass from this.
I'd make one slot port per woofer in the center, and one divider in the middle, then you'd have your three boards for structural integrity, albeit a bit closer than you drew them. This would also make the box easier to make on the ends, since you can just let the FE85 have the whole volume with the angled board, and let the 1139SIF take the straight section. This will have some other benefits as well.
I think you can get quite a lot of bass from this.
That makes more sense Kaffimann. Based on changing the woofer and port location, the new chamber sizes can be up to:
FE85 - 5.2l (Way, way oversized)
1139SIF - 14.85 l (vs the 12.65 l calculated on mh-audio.nl)
Here is a screen cap of the new layout:
And updated dimensional drawing:
Also, why does every software/website give a slightly different size for the enclosure? Is there a site that has the actual formulas used, and are there some hidden variables being used? They typically get close to each other, but never the exact same. It does not inspire much confidence.
Do I need to worry about distance from the FE85 and to edge? Also, should I plan on adding any sort of edge treatment like a chamfer or radius?
FE85 - 5.2l (Way, way oversized)
1139SIF - 14.85 l (vs the 12.65 l calculated on mh-audio.nl)
Here is a screen cap of the new layout:
And updated dimensional drawing:
Also, why does every software/website give a slightly different size for the enclosure? Is there a site that has the actual formulas used, and are there some hidden variables being used? They typically get close to each other, but never the exact same. It does not inspire much confidence.
Do I need to worry about distance from the FE85 and to edge? Also, should I plan on adding any sort of edge treatment like a chamfer or radius?
A slot port is a gap between two boards, no tubes needed.
I meant using the entire remaining volume for the 1139SIF, the way you drew it, the ports have hardly any function at all, basically just a bigger sealed box. Which is fine by me, but then you don't really need the tubes.
Make the closed box, it is easier and there's no need to learn about box calculation software, unless you really want to.
I meant using the entire remaining volume for the 1139SIF, the way you drew it, the ports have hardly any function at all, basically just a bigger sealed box. Which is fine by me, but then you don't really need the tubes.
Make the closed box, it is easier and there's no need to learn about box calculation software, unless you really want to.
I don't mind learning the software, I'm just still learning what all the different terminology is.
I now understand what you mean by slot port. Would the slot ports exit on the front of the enclosure or the rear? Also, how much is the sound impacted if the enclosure is much bigger than the 'ideal' size from the calculators?
I now understand what you mean by slot port. Would the slot ports exit on the front of the enclosure or the rear? Also, how much is the sound impacted if the enclosure is much bigger than the 'ideal' size from the calculators?
You can decide yourself whether you want the ports front or rear.
My personal preference is to have ports on the front, you should consider this since the way you intend to place the speakers will most likely enhance port output dramatically, through triggering room modes.
If you play around with calculators a bit you might find that a ported enclosure 20-25 liters can suite this driver very well.
I really like to use Hornresp, but I may be a bit biased, it's an excellent piece of software though.
My personal preference is to have ports on the front, you should consider this since the way you intend to place the speakers will most likely enhance port output dramatically, through triggering room modes.
If you play around with calculators a bit you might find that a ported enclosure 20-25 liters can suite this driver very well.
I really like to use Hornresp, but I may be a bit biased, it's an excellent piece of software though.
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