Sony HAP-Z1ES Hi-Res source (new 2014) ?

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nashbap,

I think it is Kevinkr who has the 5400ES. I know he's been busy and away, but maybe he can provide some insight.

I AM curious if the 5400ES does use similar processing to the HAPZ. The HAPZ uses a fairly powerful processor (an IMx6) plus an FPGA and a DSP chip for processing. That seems like it would be overkill for a player like the 5400ES, but I really don't know anything about that unit.

Greg in Mississippi
 
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No, it's not me.. I have an SCD-777ES SACD player from about 2001 which was a much more expensive machine and bears absolutely no resemblance in terms of build quality or anything else to the HAP; oddly enough despite the huge difference in build quality the HAP-Z1 sounds significantly better on most material. (The HAP is junk by comparison, but I would give up the 777 much more quickly tbh..)

I will say I am pretty fed up with Gracenote DB errors, if you are not an entirely middle of the road audiophile type it is fairly likely that the entry for the CD just ripped is not in the data base, particularly if it was released in 2015. (Yeah I like crappy pop compilations from here and the U.K.) This gives rise to some distressing behavior, it would be nice if you could exclude specific files from the data base search once they fail so that doesn't leave the error flag on the display. Frankly I would be happy if there were no need for an external database and it just read the tags.. (Which it also doesn't do well) It handles some data base chores quite a bit worse than the PC/J River combination it replaced.

Umm, it still sounds absolutely wonderful and works fine. The ability to rip directly is worthless if the database doesn't know about the disk you are ripping.
 
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As to the line appearing in the display, this happened with my unit as soon as the latest update was installed and applied. It does not bother me particularly, and I would hope that the next update would correct this small issue.


Interesting, didn't know you were having the same problem others have reported, there must be some hardware variations as mine definitely does not have this problem and the firmware is the latest version. (I generally apply them as soon as they become available.)
 
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Kevin,

Sorry to hear about the issues with Gracenote tagging. I've avoided having my HAPZ tag my music, so I haven't observed this... I'm used to pretty hair-shirt digital playback solutions (hey, there's no metadata for my records, why should I expect it for my digital music?).

But your comments about being able to exclude CDs from automatic DB searches and improve the way it reads the tags reminded me. I have question on whether anyone knows how to contact the developers to request functionality? Me, I'd like a phase-reversal setting and more alternate filtering (and probably too heavy of a lift, but a filter generation and upload process would even be better). Anyone know how to reach them to report issues or make requests?

I'm also looking at some slightly different directions for my next sets of mods... After realizing the PCM1795 DAC chip is VERY similar to the PCM1794 used in the DDDAC setups, I went and read up on what they do, especially on the single-board versions. See here:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...graded-single-board-pcm1794-nos-dddac-13.html

Several of the implementation tweaks used should apply directly to the PCM1795, such as a current source instead of just a resistor to set the current level on pin 20, passive I/V to a JFET buffer and then to an output transformer, and possibly a higher voltage on the analog supply side to the PCM1795 (currently 5v, they go to 8v on the PCM1794, but I'll have to figure out a way to test it on something OTHER than my HAPZ to make sure it works and doesn't smoke at the higher level).

Then also I read an interesting post by audio design maven John Swenson a couple of weeks ago where he suggested a scheme for a computer power supply... you can see it here:

"Audiophile capacitors in Power Supply - A real advantage or not?

This could work very well on the HAPZ digital main supply when replacing the DC-DC converters, since the raw DC is a high-ish 13-14v for a 5v output. What I'll do is set my current LT3080 reg pair to 8-ish v, then use a 2nd regulator mounted at the main board input connector to drop it the rest of the way to 5v. I'll likely use OPC's parallel LT3042 reg board there (info here: The Wire - All Boards and Kits Explained Here! - diyAudio) as paralleling both halves allow it to handle 1.6a out.

Doing this will lower the heat dissipated by the first regs and I might be able to go down my original smaller heatsink!

And it is still sounding very good, probably in spite of all my molestations (mods).

Greg in Mississippi
 
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No idea how one would go about contacting the software developers supporting this product. I would give them a mouthful about their support of mp3 tags which is not very good.

Tags include things like track order which the Sony ignores.. I have had to rename all of the files in older album rips to include the track number as the first entry in the file name, this is critically important with pop recordings which frequently cross fade cut to cut. It seems to be a trend with expensive high rez players in general. No media serving software operates this way so I was taken somewhat by surprise. My Hifiman has the same flaw.

I currently use CDex for ripping, it seems to do a good job and will reread bad tracks if there is a problem until it gets it right. I previously used J River or EAC, but no longer use either as the files don't work properly in either of players without further tinkering. EAC is pretty long in the tooth and appeared to no longer be supported when I stopped using it a year or so ago.
 
With respect to the lines on the display, my unit started out with one line, then several months later two lines showed up, and so on. After about the 5th line appeared I opted to replace the display. As the unit was otherwise perfect I did not want to risk shipping it back to Sony for them to repair. The display board was about $125, so it was not cheap but the thought of the unit bouncing around the country in the back of a truck didn't appeal to me either. The new display has been perfect for several months now.
 
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Great to hear. No lines on mine yet, but I'm really curious where you got the display? Was it a Sony part or a generic equivalent? My next set of planned mods MIGHT kill the DAC chips, I'd sure like to know where I can get a replacement output board if I need one (I could also replace the chips, but if a board isn't too expensive, that'd be a quick fix!).

BTW, for any interested, the mods are to duplicate the DAC and output stage configuration from the PCM1794 DDDAC... use a CCS to replace a current-set resistor on the DAC, increase the DAC analog rails to 8v, use a resistor for the I/V with a FET buffer feeding an output transformer. The PCM1795's in the HAPZ seem to have a very similar architecture internally to the PCM1794 upon comparing the datasheets, I'm hopeful all will go well, but that 8v rail gives me a bit of a concern.

Greg in Mississippi
 
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The vendor for the display was Encompass (https://sony.encompass.com/). It looks like they can also fix you up with a new audio board (A-1945-100-A) if you toast yours. Good luck!

Thanks. I tried emailing them awhile back, but never got an answer. This looks like it will work well.

At that price, I'll order just order one. Since I am concerned about that 8v on the DAC analog supply. I had planned to get another piece of gear using the PCM1795 DAC chip so I could try it out without endangering my HAPZ. Best price was a $250 Denon USB Headphone amp, so for $100 less I can just get the right part. THEN I can do this mod on the new one (which will only use the digitial side of the board up through the DACs), and swap them out to compare.

Brilliant!

THANKS!

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. Ah, I just remembered... I had emailed them about getting a service manual, I never tried searching for parts on their site. After no answer, I gave up.

Looking at what they list, they don't have many of the main components available, so I am ordering this today!!!!

Again, THANKS!
 
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Greg

In your earlier post you said you wanted to apply 8V to the analog rails of the 1795 DAC. I'm thinking that may not go well. The chip is specified for 6.5V as an absolute max. That is the usual maximum for 5V CMOS. I don't think that CMOS process can tolerate 8V. They really meant 6.5V max. Again: Good Luck!

Cheers,
Kevin
 
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Greg

In your earlier post you said you wanted to apply 8V to the analog rails of the 1795 DAC. I'm thinking that may not go well. The chip is specified for 6.5V as an absolute max. That is the usual maximum for 5V CMOS. I don't think that CMOS process can tolerate 8V. They really meant 6.5V max. Again: Good Luck!

Cheers,
Kevin

Kevin,


Thanks for your heads-up. I too share your concern and am approaching this cautiously, as I mentioned. OTOH, the DDDAC which uses the PCM1794a chip runs with an 8v VCC very successfully. First, see here for some of the details of the setup:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...-upgraded-single-board-pcm1794-nos-dddac.html

Of course, the 1/2 clock delay circuit is not appropriate for the HAPZ as the DACs there are run in standard I2S, not Right Justified.

Then you can look here for Doede's description of how he arrived at that voltage level:

DDDAC 1794 NOS DAC - Non Oversampling DAC with PCM1794 - no digital filter - modular design DIY DAC for high resolution audio 192/24 192kHz 24bit

What he said there was:

"Finding the optimum Bias and Output Voltage

Indeed a very tricky business... I quickly found out, that there is no real correlation between the reference resistor value (at pin 20) and the output current. The output current at zero signal level is of course resulting in the output DC voltage, which again is important for the maximum output signal which should not clip against ground and the positive supply voltage. One thing was clear, the higher the analog supply voltage, the more headroom for the DAC internal current sources. The datasheet tells us, that the maximum Vcc (analog supply) is 6,5 Volt. Oh really? This is just a current source, hard to believe after my experience with the TDA1543, that this is really the maximum. This is the most easy test... Play music, connect the VCC to a LAB power supply and slowly increase the supply voltage. Measure the supply current and wait till it SMOKES :) Believe it or not, the Chip worked fine till 10 Volts. It smoked at 11 Volts. I also found out by several test, that there was a kind of maximum, in such way, that there was no improvement in headroom, which was like round 8,5 Volt. Therefore I decided that 8 volt would be a great compromise."

While the PCM1795 is not the 1794, they do appear to share much of the same internal architecture including the same absolute maximum of 6.5v on the VCC. So I expect it is a safe bet 8v will work just as well on the PCM1795.

And now thanks to you, I can setup a very safe test environment where I can try it and if it smokes, fairly easily replace the DAC chips and get the board going again. BTW, I ordered the board already this afternoon.

Again, THANKS!

I'll report my results (good or bad) back here.

Greg in Mississippi
 
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Kevin,

No smoke yet. Encompass is taking their sweet time, ship date of the spare Analog board was projected as 4/28 when I ordered.

Also still planning the implementation. It will likely grow to replacing the APower board with a supply using overkill soft recovery diodes feeding 4 47,000uf Jensen 4-pole caps (plus a quick P-T-P of the circuit that does AC detect & feeds the ASDMUTE line). I'd already planned to replace my DCDC board's 'ugly' paralleled LT3080 linear 5v regulator setup (replacing the stock DC-DC converter) with a paralleled LT1963 pre-reg (13.5v->9v or so) and then to a doubled 4x paralleled set of LT3042 regs (boards by OPC) to take it down to 5v, with the latter mounted right at the 5v/Grnd input to the Main board.

I'm hoping the latter will provide somewhat better power to the Main and DSP boards. I'm pretty sure the former will do a bunch better on the Analog board and output buffer setup.

Then I need to reverse-engineer what I did when I modified the Analog board last summer. I had separated the +-15v that runs the relays from the +-15v for the I/V & output stages so I could use better shunt regulators for the latter. That took cutting some traces and running some jumper wires, I'll need do that again for this one.

And finally I'm plotting my sequencing... I'll probably do them this way:

1. Upgraded the regulation string on the DCDC board and get a feel for any differences with my current Analog power and output setups.

2. Do the APower board replacement and run the new Analog board with remote regulators set to stock voltages (and a stock I/V & output stage setup).

3. Try the increased 8v VCCxx setup with the stock I/V & output.

4. Install the passive I/V & buffer->output transformer setup.

That'll let me get a feel for what each does... and if the 8v VCCxx setup smokes the PCM1795s, it will be easier to replace them at that point!

Sound not-too insane?

Greg in Mississippi
 
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Kevin,

No smoke yet. Encompass is taking their sweet time, ship date of the spare Analog board was projected as 4/28 when I ordered.

Also still planning the implementation. It will likely grow to replacing the APower board with a supply using overkill soft recovery diodes feeding 4 47,000uf Jensen 4-pole caps (plus a quick P-T-P of the circuit that does AC detect & feeds the ASDMUTE line). I'd already planned to replace my DCDC board's 'ugly' paralleled LT3080 linear 5v regulator setup (replacing the stock DC-DC converter) with a paralleled LT1963 pre-reg (13.5v->9v or so) and then to a doubled 4x paralleled set of LT3042 regs (board by OPC) to take it down to 5v, with the latter mounted right at the 5v/Grnd input to the Main board.

I'm hoping the latter will provide somewhat better power to the Main and DSP boards. I'm pretty sure the former will do a bunch better on the Analog board and output buffer setup.

Then I need to reverse-engineer what I did when I modified the Analog board last summer. I had separated the +-15v that runs the relays from the +-15v for the I/V & output stages so I could use better shunt regulators for the latter. That took cutting some traces and running some jumper wires, I'll need do that again for this one.

And finally I'm plotting my sequencing... I'll probably do them this way:

1. Upgrade the regulation string on the DCDC board and get a feel for any differences with my current Analog power and output setups.

2. Stage the mods on the APower and spare Analog board, then run them sorta-stock with remote regulators set to stock voltages (and the stock I/V & output stage setup).

3. Try the increased 8v VCCxx setup with the stock I/V & output.

4. Install the passive I/V & buffer->output transformer setup.

That'll let me get a feel for what each does... and if the 8v VCCxx setup smokes the PCM1795s, it will be easier to replace them at that point!

Of course, to get there, I need to build and test:

1. The replacement APower setup with the Jensen 4-pole caps.

2. 8 regulators (the paralleled LT1963 digital power pre-regs, 2 3.3v ADM715x for the clocks and PCM1795 digital stages, one each 5v and 8v ADM715x for the PCM1795 VCCxx feeds, the +-15v for the relay power (and initially powering the stock I/V and output stages), and the +-12v shunts for the buffer). I already have the OPC dual 4-paralleled LT3042 board for the final digital power built & tested.

3. The buffer.

4. The mods on the spare Analog board. I think I can plan and pre-setup the mods such that I can run the board basically stock (but with the locally placed regulators, YUCK that they put the regulators on another board with almost a foot of wire!), then after checking the 8v VCCxx setup, remove links across already cut traces, remove the feedback R's & C's in the I/V stages and the output Rs going to the RCA/XLRs and replace them with links to the buffer and links from the transformers, and run power to the shunt regs on the buffer board to implement it. Still a weekend job to cut-in the buffer, but not a week!

Sound not-too insane?

Greg in Mississippi
 
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Kevin,

No smoke yet. Encompass is taking their sweet time, ship date of the spare Analog board was projected as 4/28 when I ordered.

<SNIP>

Then I need to reverse-engineer what I did when I modified the Analog board last summer. I had separated the +-15v that runs the relays from the +-15v for the I/V & output stages so I could use better shunt regulators for the latter. That took cutting some traces and running some jumper wires, I'll need do that again for this one.

<SNIP>

Of course, to get there, I need to build and test:

<SNIP>

2. 8 regulators (the paralleled LT1963 digital power pre-regs, 2 3.3v ADM715x for the clocks and PCM1795 digital stages, one each 5v and 8v ADM715x for the PCM1795 VCCxx feeds, the +-15v for the relay power (and initially powering the stock I/V and output stages), and the +-12v shunts for the buffer). I already have the OPC dual 4-paralleled LT3042 board for the final digital power built & tested.

<SNIP>

Greg in Mississippi

Well, it sounds like Encompass may meet their 4/28 ship date as they charged my credit card today. YAY!

In the meantime, I re-reverse-engineered how to provide +-15v power to the relays separately from the output stages... simple, as I remembered it, but just had to re-find the traces to cut.

AND I checked my stock of built-up regulators and saw I had the 2 3.3v and 5v ADM715x regulators already in my built up stock. But was then dismayed when I saw that regulator chip maxes at 8v output. But then found that I can use the also very good TPA7A4700 to provide my 8v AND I also have some of those regs built up too. So I'm getting ahead on that front also!

This is probably a month or two out before I start hooking it up, but at least movement is happening!

Greg in Mississippi
 
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Completely lost the ability to write or modify the folders on my HAP-Z1ES after the latest Windows 10 build (1809) installed on my computer. (Did not know that until today when I attempted to do so)

I was able to fix it after some googling.

You will need to re-enable SMB 1.0/CIFS file sharing in windows. To do so type "Windows Features" in the search bar, select Windows Features ON/OFF, scroll down and find SMB 1.0/CIFS and enable it. Reboot.

Install the latest version of Sony HAP transfer software (1.30) follow the prompts.

Note that it will allow you to drag and drop files in explorer or automatically synchronize as new music appears in the designated folder. (You can disable the auto-transfer mode)

Explorer can now also navigate directly to the HAP using its IP address.

I never used the transfer software because I thought it was terrible, and it was never installed on this machine. This version isn't nearly as bad.
 
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Firmware 18444R fixed compatibility with Windows 10 SMB V2 network protocol. Apparantly SMB V1 has severe security issues so re-enabling does not seem a wise choice, certainly when the HAP uses SMB V2 after the latest firmware update. When updating firmware using the latest version of the app is mandatory.

Same for HAP-S1 which I own (which is the best audio buy I ever did).

Firmware 18444R:

Benefits and improvements from the latest update

Supports the changes to the specifications in Spotify service
Improves connection and operation with USB DAC products
Improves stability when using the "HDD Audio Remote" application for extended periods
Resolves an issue that music files cannot be transferred from Windows10 PC via PC settings

Note:
If you use the "HDD Audio Remote" application, you also need to update this application.
The latest version of the "HDD Audio Remote" application does not support the following operating system versions.
Android 3 or earlier
iOS 8 or earlier
 
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Greg

In your earlier post you said you wanted to apply 8V to the analog rails of the 1795 DAC. I'm thinking that may not go well. The chip is specified for 6.5V as an absolute max. That is the usual maximum for 5V CMOS. I don't think that CMOS process can tolerate 8V. They really meant 6.5V max. Again: Good Luck!

Cheers,
Kevin

+1. Using devices above their absolute maximum limits is never a wise idea. Trading in reliability for a slightly (and subjective) better performance also does not work out too well. These Sony devices are very hard to find here. I would be careful with it.
 
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Firmware 18444R fixed compatibility with Windows 10 SMB V2 network protocol. Apparantly SMB V1 has severe security issues so re-enabling does not seem a wise choice, certainly when the HAP uses SMB V2 after the latest firmware update. When updating firmware using the latest version of the app is mandatory.

Same for HAP-S1 which I own (which is the best audio buy I ever did).

Firmware 18444R:

Benefits and improvements from the latest update

Supports the changes to the specifications in Spotify service
Improves connection and operation with USB DAC products
Improves stability when using the "HDD Audio Remote" application for extended periods
Resolves an issue that music files cannot be transferred from Windows10 PC via PC settings

Note:
If you use the "HDD Audio Remote" application, you also need to update this application.
The latest version of the "HDD Audio Remote" application does not support the following operating system versions.
Android 3 or earlier
iOS 8 or earlier


I've got the latest firmware update 18444R - having installed the transfer software I can try disabling SMB1.0/CIFs and see if I still have access to the HAP.
According to various online resources I should have at least SMB3/CIFs.

The apps on my phone and tablet are up to date. I don't use them much as getting up once in a while to select more music is the healthier option. (So is vinyl) Not glued to the listening position for excessive periods of time.
 
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