still waiting on triplet to show up.
I may get impatient and just do the "100 in tv on ebay thing" and just use a single fresnel to focus an image. That will at least tell me how my light source is working. If I turn the lcd upside down and face the side of the lcd that you typically look at toward the solux -- a single fresnel should focus a correct image on the wall -- correct?
Basically in that case, my solux array is one very bright back light and I don't have to worry about it being a columnated light source. (just like the guys that use 2 LOA's) I know that doesn't test the original arguement that a 10degree bulb is a narrow enough beam to approximate a columnated light source -- but I'll get there eventually.
I may get impatient and just do the "100 in tv on ebay thing" and just use a single fresnel to focus an image. That will at least tell me how my light source is working. If I turn the lcd upside down and face the side of the lcd that you typically look at toward the solux -- a single fresnel should focus a correct image on the wall -- correct?
Basically in that case, my solux array is one very bright back light and I don't have to worry about it being a columnated light source. (just like the guys that use 2 LOA's) I know that doesn't test the original arguement that a 10degree bulb is a narrow enough beam to approximate a columnated light source -- but I'll get there eventually.
Sounds interesting
So you aren't going to use Property's idea of using a small fresnel lens for each bulb?
Post pics when it arrives, i'm excited!
So you aren't going to use Property's idea of using a small fresnel lens for each bulb?
Post pics when it arrives, i'm excited!
jbell said:
Can you hurry up and get impatient? 🙂
Cause I wanna see if this works.
I'm doing this project for my Physics IRP, which is due at the end of the semester, so time is running out!
OK, my first light up of the array -- and not exactly what I wanted.
I wanted a very parallel light source, but this is rediculous!!! In order to get a perfectly even light, I need to have the array almost 20" away from its target in the current spacing of about 1/2" between bulbs. I'm still seeing spots too, man is that bright!
I had to turn the brightness all the way down on my camera to even get something that is visable. BTW -- the lights are on in this pic and there's only 10 of the 20 bulbs lit!!!
I'll post more as I experiment. I think I'll break out the welding mask the next time I light it up -- I have a headache now....
I wanted a very parallel light source, but this is rediculous!!! In order to get a perfectly even light, I need to have the array almost 20" away from its target in the current spacing of about 1/2" between bulbs. I'm still seeing spots too, man is that bright!
I had to turn the brightness all the way down on my camera to even get something that is visable. BTW -- the lights are on in this pic and there's only 10 of the 20 bulbs lit!!!
I'll post more as I experiment. I think I'll break out the welding mask the next time I light it up -- I have a headache now....
Attachments
so your thinking that they need to mabe butt up to eachother, IE no spaces at all? this is still highly interesting to me, keep the pics flowing.
yea somthing like that. Last pics for the night, I didn't wait until the silicone cured, so my bulbs started falling off the glass. while I was playing around with it.
I did get a somewhat focused image -- I could never get it focused out to the edge however. I would say about 70% was in focus. It's probably due to not having a frame around the fresnel, it wasn't perfectly flat. I did prove to myself however, that if you flip the lcd so that the normal viewing side is facing the light source, and turn it upside down, the resulting image from using a single fresnel as a focusing lens outputs a correct image. (the 100" ebay thing)
I also proved to myself that an array of solux is an extremely bright backlight, and if you are taking non focused light from the lcd and putting that through optics, you still get a good image. (Like the guys using 2 loa's for a backlight)
I also put the fresnel behind the lcd and saw exactly what rapsac said I would see, a bunch of light rings from each of my sources.
I have to do some refiguring at this point, putting the bulbs as close together as possible, won't fill a 15" screen with 20 bulbs, and I don't want a 4' long projector.....
I also haven't made a light grid, like 18wheeler drew in an earlier post yet either.
I can tell you 20 of these bulbs gives new meaning to the word overkill......
Things that make you go hmmm...
I did get a somewhat focused image -- I could never get it focused out to the edge however. I would say about 70% was in focus. It's probably due to not having a frame around the fresnel, it wasn't perfectly flat. I did prove to myself however, that if you flip the lcd so that the normal viewing side is facing the light source, and turn it upside down, the resulting image from using a single fresnel as a focusing lens outputs a correct image. (the 100" ebay thing)
I also proved to myself that an array of solux is an extremely bright backlight, and if you are taking non focused light from the lcd and putting that through optics, you still get a good image. (Like the guys using 2 loa's for a backlight)
I also put the fresnel behind the lcd and saw exactly what rapsac said I would see, a bunch of light rings from each of my sources.
I have to do some refiguring at this point, putting the bulbs as close together as possible, won't fill a 15" screen with 20 bulbs, and I don't want a 4' long projector.....
I also haven't made a light grid, like 18wheeler drew in an earlier post yet either.
I can tell you 20 of these bulbs gives new meaning to the word overkill......
Things that make you go hmmm...
I can't make anything out of that image above with the yellow border. Can you explain it ??
How wide are the reflectors on each solux bulb?
Also, can you post pics of your screen? (im not expecting too much just yet, I just want a general idea of where you are at)
How wide are the reflectors on each solux bulb?
Also, can you post pics of your screen? (im not expecting too much just yet, I just want a general idea of where you are at)
each bulb's outside diameter is 2", inside reflector diameter is just under 1 7/8" The pic with the yellow border is a pair of old ibm computers up on edge, holding up the array, that's shining down. I was trying to get a pic of the square light that the array was putting out. It was so bright though, that I couldn't adjust brightness and contrast enough to show.
I've got to rethink this array, I can't flood my screen unless I have a large distance between the solux's and my lcd. Even using multiple small fresnels -- it would take about 2' to be able to fill a 2 1/2" square fresnel.
At this point, I'm thinking I would be better off with (9) 17degree bulbs with 3x3 fresnels at the end of a light grid. 9 bulbs will be much shorter life in series @ 120v -- down to about 1000 hours@140% of rated brightness.
It's either that, or I have to find a way to focus several bulbs to a point, and that point is my light source.
Any "bright" ideas out there?
I've got to rethink this array, I can't flood my screen unless I have a large distance between the solux's and my lcd. Even using multiple small fresnels -- it would take about 2' to be able to fill a 2 1/2" square fresnel.
At this point, I'm thinking I would be better off with (9) 17degree bulbs with 3x3 fresnels at the end of a light grid. 9 bulbs will be much shorter life in series @ 120v -- down to about 1000 hours@140% of rated brightness.
It's either that, or I have to find a way to focus several bulbs to a point, and that point is my light source.
Any "bright" ideas out there?
I'm not quite sure i understand your descriptions....
You are saying that you need 2' to cover a 2-1/2" small fresnel??? Why's that?
From what i understand, you are saying that the 4x5 array you have now is TOO collumnated?
Also, it seems to me a light grid box would be essential for testing, otherwise you have too much light crossing itself.
As far as concentrating the light to a point...FresnelTech.com has curved infrared detector fresnels that seem to concentrate the light from a wide angle onto a tiny detection element...there may be something useful in that.....But i'm not too sure about what's going on from your descriptions... Could you please explain further?
You are saying that you need 2' to cover a 2-1/2" small fresnel??? Why's that?
From what i understand, you are saying that the 4x5 array you have now is TOO collumnated?
Also, it seems to me a light grid box would be essential for testing, otherwise you have too much light crossing itself.
As far as concentrating the light to a point...FresnelTech.com has curved infrared detector fresnels that seem to concentrate the light from a wide angle onto a tiny detection element...there may be something useful in that.....But i'm not too sure about what's going on from your descriptions... Could you please explain further?
jbell said:
12x 17 degree bulbs, it will make your lights 20" x 10 /17 =11.8" away from LCD. otherwise you end up with the same problem you are having now.
property: jbell was saying the 10 degree beams are too narrow to cover whole LCD, and he had to move lights 20" away from the LCD screen.
so when the bulbs are 20" away from the lcd, do you get a good image?
Cause I don't care even if the bulbs had to be 20 feet away from the LCD...
Cause I don't care even if the bulbs had to be 20 feet away from the LCD...
18wheeler said:
I don't get that...By my calculation a 10 degree spread ( i'm thinking 10 degrees off the center line) should give you a
4"+ diameter circle at 12" away.
Does the 10 degree spread mean the whole beam spread? I.e. 5 degrees on either side of the center line?
I guess that would make more sense per your results.
Then 12" away would give around a 2" diameter circle...Wow that IS a good spotlight...But in that case i don't see why a 4x5 array wouldn't cover a 8"x10" LCD at 12" away.
Sorry for the confusing descriptions. As you have guessed, at less than 20" away, I have bright well defined "circles" of light from my array. I think they are being overly generous with the 10 degree spread. I would say it's almost parallel. They claim it will show a 4" circle @ 2', and it's definately no bigger.
Also, a 2 1/2" square light grid has a diagonal of 4" (didn't think of that....) so I sould have figured that out before I orderd the bulbs.
I'm going to try again with the edges of the bulbs touching, and setting my screen size down to 800x600 (my screen black borders and doesn't stretch on lower resolutions)
Will let you know
Also, a 2 1/2" square light grid has a diagonal of 4" (didn't think of that....) so I sould have figured that out before I orderd the bulbs.
I'm going to try again with the edges of the bulbs touching, and setting my screen size down to 800x600 (my screen black borders and doesn't stretch on lower resolutions)
Will let you know
It would have if the delta lense that I bought wasn't for a !@#@!$ crt projector!!! Only the middle would focus and I couldn't find out why. The main lens is not a plano convex, it's a convex convex with two different curves, one for focusing and the other to compensate for the curve of the crt.
Curses....
But yes, that's what I'm assuming it would look like.
Is that using an array of mr16's?
Curses....
But yes, that's what I'm assuming it would look like.
Is that using an array of mr16's?
Jbell please read this thread after you finish reading this post and tell me what you think.
So basically i'm thinking that you solux's give off too good a light for us not to find a way to use an array of them optimally.
Now from looking at the newer commercial projector lamp assemblies, it seems like ALL of them use the configuration seen in the pic posted in the thread i just linked to up there. That is, these lamp assemblies are designed so that the light used does NOT eminate directly from the bulb but is all reflected off of mathematically designed reflector shapes. From what i see, i gather that ALL of them reflect the light into a straight beam.
Now, with your solux's i'm sure that part of the 10 or 17 degree spread comes from the design of the bulb itself. But also part of the spread i'm sure comes from the reflector design.
So i'm wondering if we could find a commercial lamp assembly reflector small enough ( I doubt that any are as small as your solux reflectors, but we could possible scale them down) Then we could possibly replace the solux reflectors with a well thought out, expensive, and mathematically designed commercial reflector that would give us an even better "straight" beam.
I put out this idea because it seems that although these commercial UHP projector reflectors are larger than your solux reflectors, the actual bulb sizes are fairly comparable. Look at these reflectors from (click on any one of the projectors, then click "accessories" then click "lamp", then click "enlarge the lamp pic")INFOCUS
Now, in order to make use of the design of these reflectors, the light comming directly from the solux bulb itself would have to blocked (as it is with the commercial bulb designs as seen on the infocus link) so that only the reflector is providing the light. And i wonder if this could be accomplished by somehow "painting" a small portion of the tip of the solux bulb.....
I know this seems rather an involved alteration of the solux assembly...but give it some thought and tell me what your opinion is...
Also note that producing copies of the commercial reflector would be EXTREMELY easy.
So basically i'm thinking that you solux's give off too good a light for us not to find a way to use an array of them optimally.
Now from looking at the newer commercial projector lamp assemblies, it seems like ALL of them use the configuration seen in the pic posted in the thread i just linked to up there. That is, these lamp assemblies are designed so that the light used does NOT eminate directly from the bulb but is all reflected off of mathematically designed reflector shapes. From what i see, i gather that ALL of them reflect the light into a straight beam.
Now, with your solux's i'm sure that part of the 10 or 17 degree spread comes from the design of the bulb itself. But also part of the spread i'm sure comes from the reflector design.
So i'm wondering if we could find a commercial lamp assembly reflector small enough ( I doubt that any are as small as your solux reflectors, but we could possible scale them down) Then we could possibly replace the solux reflectors with a well thought out, expensive, and mathematically designed commercial reflector that would give us an even better "straight" beam.
I put out this idea because it seems that although these commercial UHP projector reflectors are larger than your solux reflectors, the actual bulb sizes are fairly comparable. Look at these reflectors from (click on any one of the projectors, then click "accessories" then click "lamp", then click "enlarge the lamp pic")INFOCUS
Now, in order to make use of the design of these reflectors, the light comming directly from the solux bulb itself would have to blocked (as it is with the commercial bulb designs as seen on the infocus link) so that only the reflector is providing the light. And i wonder if this could be accomplished by somehow "painting" a small portion of the tip of the solux bulb.....
I know this seems rather an involved alteration of the solux assembly...but give it some thought and tell me what your opinion is...
Also note that producing copies of the commercial reflector would be EXTREMELY easy.
That is exactly the design of the solux and the reason it has the specs it does. the filiment is on axis with the reflector, so there is very little light / heat that projects forward from the bulb itself. That makes the reflector 90% or more responsible for forward light output. If the reflector were made to absorb specific bands of light to improve its cri, as well as infrared, and then you were to put on a glass front that blocks uv -- you would have a solux.
I could remove the uv glass filter and silver paint the tip of the bulb and then replace the filter. And obviously, the reflector design is top notch. The problem is -- 50 watts is just not enough, you have to use multiple bulbs.
I'm convinced the way high output projectors get their output, is with a very focused light, and the lcd very close to it. Think about high voltage power lines, they run killovolts, so the resistance in the wire doesn't affect their ability to carry electricity. Same thing with an lcd -- if it soaks up light, make it as small as possible, so that a focused light at that small of diameter is extremely bright. When you are talking tens of thousands of candlepower at .75" square, losing 50% doesn't hurt much. When you are spreading the light over .75 sq. feet -- wow, you need alot of light.
I could remove the uv glass filter and silver paint the tip of the bulb and then replace the filter. And obviously, the reflector design is top notch. The problem is -- 50 watts is just not enough, you have to use multiple bulbs.
I'm convinced the way high output projectors get their output, is with a very focused light, and the lcd very close to it. Think about high voltage power lines, they run killovolts, so the resistance in the wire doesn't affect their ability to carry electricity. Same thing with an lcd -- if it soaks up light, make it as small as possible, so that a focused light at that small of diameter is extremely bright. When you are talking tens of thousands of candlepower at .75" square, losing 50% doesn't hurt much. When you are spreading the light over .75 sq. feet -- wow, you need alot of light.
AAhhh...nice to hear that's how the solux is designed..Fantastic!
I'm starting to think that these billion dollar projector companies are onto something with indirect/reflector bouncing light instead of direct bulb light!
I'm starting again to think that it's all in the reflector design.
I'm starting to think that these billion dollar projector companies are onto something with indirect/reflector bouncing light instead of direct bulb light!
I'm starting again to think that it's all in the reflector design.
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