Hello all. Hope everyone is well.
I'm hoping for some advice and some pointers in the right direction for a project I have in mind.
So I have a narrow boat and I have created a pretty decent solar array/battery setup and now I want to build a nice sound system.
I am looking to build a mini stack comprised of a subwoofer, kick/midbass unit, a mid box and a tweeter array.
currently I'm focused on the subwoofer and truly I am overwhelmed! I Want something that can go deep and as loud as possible, but I'm limited on both power and space for obvious reasons.
The limitations are a box not much larger than 450mm by 1000mm by 800mm and I have around 600w (RMS) to play with.
so with this in mind Im thinking I want to build some kind of horn with a 15" driver. However there are so many types of horns and drivers I'm getting a bit lost.
I'm mostly in to bass heavy music like dub reggae and drum and bass etc so I want it to deep and powerful. I intend to have small parties outside, next to the boat with a 100 people or so, therefore I want it to be fairly loud, yet I want to use it inside just to enjoy so I want it to be controlled and not just a boomy mess.
I know! I want it all 🤣 but I think something decent possible as I'll have another 450w set aside for the kick speaker and I can prob cross over at 70hz or so, hopefully leaving more power to get down to at least 30hz
I Have narrowed the driver down to 3 that I think could fit the bill based on what I can get hold of in the UK.
Guys please share your wisdom and let me know your thoughts. Should I go with one of the following or something else? And based on the choice of driver which type of horn should I research and ultimately build.
the drivers I'm looking at are the LAB 15 (although being 6ohm limits power a little more), the [/B]Dayton Audio UM15-22, the Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 or the B&C 15SW115-4
I'm hoping for some advice and some pointers in the right direction for a project I have in mind.
So I have a narrow boat and I have created a pretty decent solar array/battery setup and now I want to build a nice sound system.
I am looking to build a mini stack comprised of a subwoofer, kick/midbass unit, a mid box and a tweeter array.
currently I'm focused on the subwoofer and truly I am overwhelmed! I Want something that can go deep and as loud as possible, but I'm limited on both power and space for obvious reasons.
The limitations are a box not much larger than 450mm by 1000mm by 800mm and I have around 600w (RMS) to play with.
so with this in mind Im thinking I want to build some kind of horn with a 15" driver. However there are so many types of horns and drivers I'm getting a bit lost.
I'm mostly in to bass heavy music like dub reggae and drum and bass etc so I want it to deep and powerful. I intend to have small parties outside, next to the boat with a 100 people or so, therefore I want it to be fairly loud, yet I want to use it inside just to enjoy so I want it to be controlled and not just a boomy mess.
I know! I want it all 🤣 but I think something decent possible as I'll have another 450w set aside for the kick speaker and I can prob cross over at 70hz or so, hopefully leaving more power to get down to at least 30hz
I Have narrowed the driver down to 3 that I think could fit the bill based on what I can get hold of in the UK.
Guys please share your wisdom and let me know your thoughts. Should I go with one of the following or something else? And based on the choice of driver which type of horn should I research and ultimately build.
the drivers I'm looking at are the LAB 15 (although being 6ohm limits power a little more), the [/B]Dayton Audio UM15-22, the Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 or the B&C 15SW115-4
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Some notes for you:
What do you have in the way of signal processing?
Chris
- 30Hz and loud is difficult to achieve outdoors. You’re looking at good 18” drivers and plenty of power. 40Hz is more achievable.
- You don’t need a kick bin. A good 12” midbass will do fine a couple of 18” subs, and your system will be smaller than that.
- Tweeter arrays tend to be a comb filter-y mess. Pick a good 1” compression driver and you’ll be fine.
What do you have in the way of signal processing?
Chris
Hi Chris, thanks for the response.
My aim is to build a mini dub reggae stack because I love the scene plus it's a good way to utilise the power I have.
I can't go bigger than a 15 since as I mentioned it will be living on a narrow boat. (They are only 6ft wide inside).
Those dimensions I gave are maximum, that's the space I have to store it.
I should mention I am after a mono system here. I have an excellent listening system inside that I plan to bolster with the sub when it's not being used for little parties.
I'll be splitting the frequencies using a 4 way active crossover to spit the signals to the relevant amps. I'll also like grab a couple of equalisers.
SPL will take a back seat to the reach of the sub, fairly decent output down to 35 would make me very happy.
Essentially I have hard limitations and I'm just looking to get the most of the power I have within my limited space availability.
My aim is to build a mini dub reggae stack because I love the scene plus it's a good way to utilise the power I have.
I can't go bigger than a 15 since as I mentioned it will be living on a narrow boat. (They are only 6ft wide inside).
Those dimensions I gave are maximum, that's the space I have to store it.
I should mention I am after a mono system here. I have an excellent listening system inside that I plan to bolster with the sub when it's not being used for little parties.
I'll be splitting the frequencies using a 4 way active crossover to spit the signals to the relevant amps. I'll also like grab a couple of equalisers.
SPL will take a back seat to the reach of the sub, fairly decent output down to 35 would make me very happy.
Essentially I have hard limitations and I'm just looking to get the most of the power I have within my limited space availability.
You could build a Cubo Sub @ 450 mm wide (or as wide as it can be), I would prefer the B&C 15SW115-4, Lab 15 at a second place (you'll get 18" reflex cabinet performance). As a kick cabinet you could build a Cubo Kick 12 as it's also 450 mm wide, above that a 10"/ 1" closed cabinet will do.
Hello rademakers. Thanks so much for solid information.
Gives me a good starting point.
Out of curiosity, what were your thoughts on the Dayton drivers? To me they look ideal, but I'm basing that on numbers that I don't perhaps understand. Both the sensitivity and the Freq response looks much better on both of them...?
I love the LAB 15. But what puts me off is the impedance of 6ohm and the lower sensitivity. The amp I will be powering the sub with is 600w RMS @4 ohm. It is also 2ohm stable.
Thanks again for your time and for sharing your thoughts.
Gives me a good starting point.
Out of curiosity, what were your thoughts on the Dayton drivers? To me they look ideal, but I'm basing that on numbers that I don't perhaps understand. Both the sensitivity and the Freq response looks much better on both of them...?
I love the LAB 15. But what puts me off is the impedance of 6ohm and the lower sensitivity. The amp I will be powering the sub with is 600w RMS @4 ohm. It is also 2ohm stable.
Thanks again for your time and for sharing your thoughts.
You might also consider corrosive saltwater atmosphere, if your boat will also sail in the sea.
Tin solder is particularly sensitive to saltwater.
Maybe a closed box will survive longer?
Tin solder is particularly sensitive to saltwater.
Maybe a closed box will survive longer?
Well yes, but actually no 😉
The Dayton's are quoting 2.83 V/ m, which takes the impedance into account. If you look at 1 W/ m instead for all drivers, the 15SW115-4 is 95 dB (/ 1 W/ m), Lab 15: 90 dB, RSS390HO-4: 89 dB and the UM15-22: 87 dB/ W / m.
The Dayton's are both optimized for output down to at least 20 Hz, awesome for your home theater but typically not for PA. The 15SW115 is optimized for output above 30 Hz, which is what you need. By the way, if you can afford it all the better but if 600 Wrms is all you've got, the 4 Ohm versions of the 15NBX100, NW100 and TBX100 all have a similar η₀ (and thus similar sensitivity at 1 W/ m).
Cubo's are essentially 6th order series band pass cabinets (parallel for the kicks), meaning a driver with a high sensitivity will give the flattest response and most output between the two band pass peaks. Exactly where 90% of modern music has distributed the most energy.
If you can bridge the amp, 4 Ohm drivers will offer maximum output.
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Thank you rademakers. This helps immensely. It's starting to make much more sense.
Only downside is browsing the net I have found that I cannot buy any of those drivers at 4ohm in the UK. No idea why we can't get the good stuff here.
Although in my original short list the 15SW115-4 is priced at crazy prices! I've even seen the thing being advertised for £1100! Madness.
The LAB 15 is available at a realistic price, so perhaps that's the way forward unless you can think of any other suitable drivers?
Only downside is browsing the net I have found that I cannot buy any of those drivers at 4ohm in the UK. No idea why we can't get the good stuff here.
Although in my original short list the 15SW115-4 is priced at crazy prices! I've even seen the thing being advertised for £1100! Madness.
The LAB 15 is available at a realistic price, so perhaps that's the way forward unless you can think of any other suitable drivers?
Are we supposed to know what a "narrow boat" is?
I had to google them. (like 99.95% others)
You didn´t even fill your location data field, I must guess you are in UK?
Besides that, I find your project somewhat unrealistic:
* A Bass Horn?
* in a 6 ft wide BOAT?
* 30 Hz?
* LOUD?
* solar powered?
Hope you realize you can probably dock your boat inside a properly built horn.
No I don't expect you to know what a narrow boat is off hand. But I explained to the poster that it is an inland boat, I see nothing wrong with that. And as you have demonstrated, if you don't know what something is you can Google it.
I did miss out on filling the location data, but that doesn't matter really anyway. Why does it? Why do you need to guess? Just ask politely.
If you find my project unrealistic then my guess is you have no useful input to offer. It doesn't have to fit in with anyone's idea of what is good or bad. I'm not looking for opinions on whether it's a master plan or not, I'm just looking for advice from knowledgeable and friendly people who have good ideas to share to get as close to what I'm trying to achieve as possible.
Yes. I want to build a horn.
Yes, in. 6ft wide boat. Don't worry on the logistics of fitting it in, I've got that covered. It's a pretty cool idea. If you want to hear it I'm willing to share. Just ask.
Yep loud. Not aiming for a quiet subwoofer. It's not for me.
Yes solar powered. I have an array capable of delivering a steady 2kw and a custom lithium battery setup that can power around 1.5kw for 6 hours or so.
I don't mean to seem short or rude JMF. But your post is unnecessary and pointless. Why do you feel the need to bring negativity and be somewhat confrontational?
I'm working on this project because I have a desire to do so. The limitations are part of the fun and the challenge.
Do I expect perfect results? No.
But it will be fun to try and get as close as I can.
Yes if I could build a horn large enough to dock my boat in I'm sure it would be amazing. Fantastic even. But I can't. I'm sure if we could bend physics we could create drivers with infinite xmax and power handling and create bass that could shatter walls. But we can't.
Any project will have limitations, whether financial, space constraints, power deficits and I'm just working around mine.
So please no more of this kind of post I implore you.
Please more useful responses like those from rademakers. Truly appreciating the info and guidance.
Well if I'm honest that may be a little it of an exaggeration 🤣😜
But then if you are next to a boat with a group of friends listening to sweet sounds on a pretty decent rig then passers by inevitably stop and join in.
When it's done feel free to join yourself and exercise your extrovert side 😄💪
By the way I'm in the UK. Sorry didn't fill in the location data. 😱
6 feet is about a car in width, so something intended for a car or similar should suit.
See those systems, compare, and get one to use.
As a bonus, more rugged and able to withstand harsh conditions, and may be more variety available.
You can try at shops and car breakers, might save some money.
See those systems, compare, and get one to use.
As a bonus, more rugged and able to withstand harsh conditions, and may be more variety available.
You can try at shops and car breakers, might save some money.
Cars are closed, you pump 1 liter air in, it rises pressure somewhat uniformly at every point inside.
Relatively easy to do, as is shown all the time.
In fact, if fully sealed, IT HAS RESPONSE FLAT DOWN TO DC 😱
As in: you pump 1 liter of air in, pressure rises by "x" millibars AND STAYS THERE.
Now try that in open air, even worse in the wilds, in the middle of nowhere.
PHYSICS-LAWS-RULE.
If anything, a project defying them is "controversial" 🙂
My answer is just one more case of: "deep - small - loud ... pick two of them"
FWIW it seems to be a trend today, there is another thread currently running about reaching 25 Hz, LOUD, in a shoebox sized cabinet.
Relatively easy to do, as is shown all the time.
In fact, if fully sealed, IT HAS RESPONSE FLAT DOWN TO DC 😱
As in: you pump 1 liter of air in, pressure rises by "x" millibars AND STAYS THERE.
Now try that in open air, even worse in the wilds, in the middle of nowhere.
PHYSICS-LAWS-RULE.
If anything, a project defying them is "controversial" 🙂
My answer is just one more case of: "deep - small - loud ... pick two of them"
FWIW it seems to be a trend today, there is another thread currently running about reaching 25 Hz, LOUD, in a shoebox sized cabinet.
So you need a concert type setup, for a party for 100 people, with a battery power supply.
How will the boat send sound to the offshore people, as I doubt 100 people will fit in a 6 foot wide boat.
Typical British eccentric?
Or totally not practical.
How will the boat send sound to the offshore people, as I doubt 100 people will fit in a 6 foot wide boat.
Typical British eccentric?
Or totally not practical.
What you want and physics on planet earth might not be congruent. Maybe try another planet.
Relax Guys
It is just a PA system for small/med outdoor parties
He wants to build a 15" bass bin / folded horn.
Its ok in many circles 15" bass bins are often called " subwoofers"
So many assume they are going down to 30 Hz.
Far as the original post.
Your looking for efficiency, and lot more cone control than a normal reflex.
Bass Bin is the usual choice.
Just keep in mind outdoors or large warehouse.
Full Space radiation people dont realize how tough
it is to get Bass response
If a Bass gets down to even 55/ 60 Hz and does it at high SPL
in full space. It is very respectable amounts of bass outdoors/indoors.
you specified around 450mm by 1000mm by 800mm
and this is somewhat common size range for 15" bins.
The overall Horn sizes support 55/60 Hz
likely very hard peak around 65 Hz
Instead its 55/60 Hz swinging hard with authority
So as mentioned with loud efficiency most people
assume they are making " 30 Hz"
Most hard bass in tracks around 45 to 65 Hz
It is just a PA system for small/med outdoor parties
He wants to build a 15" bass bin / folded horn.
Its ok in many circles 15" bass bins are often called " subwoofers"
So many assume they are going down to 30 Hz.
Far as the original post.
Your looking for efficiency, and lot more cone control than a normal reflex.
Bass Bin is the usual choice.
Just keep in mind outdoors or large warehouse.
Full Space radiation people dont realize how tough
it is to get Bass response
If a Bass gets down to even 55/ 60 Hz and does it at high SPL
in full space. It is very respectable amounts of bass outdoors/indoors.
you specified around 450mm by 1000mm by 800mm
and this is somewhat common size range for 15" bins.
The overall Horn sizes support 55/60 Hz
likely very hard peak around 65 Hz
Instead its 55/60 Hz swinging hard with authority
So as mentioned with loud efficiency most people
assume they are making " 30 Hz"
Most hard bass in tracks around 45 to 65 Hz
Far as a Straight forward system
the suggestion of using common Constant Directivity
Horn for highs instead of a tweeter array is a good idea.
15" bass bin crossed over around 120 to 160 Hz
then your mid/tweet takes over from there.
1x12 plus a horn is very common.
or as many have explored 8" + Horn
or 2x 8 + Horn
2x8 mid high =MB208H with Build Plans and Crossover with Bass Bin with Optional Passive Crossover
the suggestion of using common Constant Directivity
Horn for highs instead of a tweeter array is a good idea.
15" bass bin crossed over around 120 to 160 Hz
then your mid/tweet takes over from there.
1x12 plus a horn is very common.
or as many have explored 8" + Horn
or 2x 8 + Horn
2x8 mid high =MB208H with Build Plans and Crossover with Bass Bin with Optional Passive Crossover
Ok ok ok. Guys 🤣 I'm not looking for the impossible.
But look I have a 10" monitor-audio subwoofer that digs pretty deep and performs fairly respectively and it's in a 1.6 cubic foot box. Are you telling me that a high quality 15" driver in a 12.7 cubic foot could not go deeper and be louder?
As I have stated. I'm not looking for insane SPL. I'm just looking to get the most from my limitations. If I can enjoy tight deep base inside and have enough volume to stick it outside the boat to enjoy with friends I'm happy.
Also it'll be next to the boat outside most likely, so the unit will have a 55ft long wall behind it essentially. It's not going to be sat in the middle of a field.
So with all that said. I can build a box with the dimensions of a maximum of 450mm x 800mm x 1000mm. I have a maximum RMS of 600w @4ohm. I want to go as deep as possible while still having pretty decent (but not astronomical) SPL so that when I stick it outside I can enjoy it there too.
I'm leaning more and more towards the LAB15, as it's within budget and I can actually buy one in the UK. Unless anyone can think of some other option that are 4ohm...?
For the cab I'm currently thinking of either the cubo sub that rademaker suggested or the ROAR15 cab by Martinson. Any thoughts on these two? Which do you guys prefer.
But please no more naysayers. Please just help me make the most of my specifications. Then I can get building and deciding on the colour scheme. 🤔
Thanks again to all those willing to give me their time offering advice and info. It is very much appreciated.
But look I have a 10" monitor-audio subwoofer that digs pretty deep and performs fairly respectively and it's in a 1.6 cubic foot box. Are you telling me that a high quality 15" driver in a 12.7 cubic foot could not go deeper and be louder?
As I have stated. I'm not looking for insane SPL. I'm just looking to get the most from my limitations. If I can enjoy tight deep base inside and have enough volume to stick it outside the boat to enjoy with friends I'm happy.
Also it'll be next to the boat outside most likely, so the unit will have a 55ft long wall behind it essentially. It's not going to be sat in the middle of a field.
So with all that said. I can build a box with the dimensions of a maximum of 450mm x 800mm x 1000mm. I have a maximum RMS of 600w @4ohm. I want to go as deep as possible while still having pretty decent (but not astronomical) SPL so that when I stick it outside I can enjoy it there too.
I'm leaning more and more towards the LAB15, as it's within budget and I can actually buy one in the UK. Unless anyone can think of some other option that are 4ohm...?
For the cab I'm currently thinking of either the cubo sub that rademaker suggested or the ROAR15 cab by Martinson. Any thoughts on these two? Which do you guys prefer.
But please no more naysayers. Please just help me make the most of my specifications. Then I can get building and deciding on the colour scheme. 🤔
Thanks again to all those willing to give me their time offering advice and info. It is very much appreciated.