That's a pretty silly and unhelpful comment
Why though? A 2" driver would not be excursion or power limited compared to a tweeter, and could also be crossed fairly lower. Lots of 1-2" drivers advertise full range output too (till 20khz).
Why? Can you explain or expand on this? Two speaker enclosures with 4 woofers and 2 tweeters each, so really only half the amount you are describing per cabinet. Is the concern about front baffle flexing? Some kind of unwanted sonic interaction between the drivers? If two high-excursion 18" drivers can share a baffle in other applications, then why not four 8" drivers?
Combing.
In an ideal world you want the physical distance from the centres of the 2 drivers is under a quarer wavelength at the XO. That is not possible with the typical tweeter, you can’t get it close enuff to the midrange. But 4 tweeters fighting each other is worse.
One could conceivably do a 3-way with 6 woofers, and an MTM above. You would have 4 tweeters left over.
dave
In an ideal world you want the physical distance from the centres of the 2 drivers is under a quarer wavelength at the XO. That is not possible with the typical tweeter, you can’t get it close enuff to the midrange. But 4 tweeters fighting each other is worse.
One could conceivably do a 3-way with 6 woofers, and an MTM above. You would have 4 tweeters left over.
dave
So this thread has morphed quite a bit, but seeing if I can get any opinions on these two tweeter options:
https://www.parts-express.com/Pyramid-TW44-Heavy-Duty-Titanium-Super-Tweeter-270-125?quantity=1
https://www.parts-express.com/Timpano-Audio-TPT-ST2-Black-4-Super-Tweeter-Pair-294-3083?quantity=1
Similar in price, I am leaning towards the Pyramids.
Also, my current thinking on the build is to use 4 of the GRS 8" drivers and 1-2 tweeters per cabinet. For crossover and signal processing I was contemplating the following which would make it easy to adjust crossover points and attenuation for the 8" mid woofers and tweeters. I already have one amp for this purpose that could drive the mid woofers, so I would just get another one for the tweeters.
https://www.amazon.com/Taramps-Digi...4bb78239a3923e3085ffd640c94c8a12&gad_source=1
https://www.parts-express.com/Pyramid-TW44-Heavy-Duty-Titanium-Super-Tweeter-270-125?quantity=1
https://www.parts-express.com/Timpano-Audio-TPT-ST2-Black-4-Super-Tweeter-Pair-294-3083?quantity=1
Similar in price, I am leaning towards the Pyramids.
Also, my current thinking on the build is to use 4 of the GRS 8" drivers and 1-2 tweeters per cabinet. For crossover and signal processing I was contemplating the following which would make it easy to adjust crossover points and attenuation for the 8" mid woofers and tweeters. I already have one amp for this purpose that could drive the mid woofers, so I would just get another one for the tweeters.
https://www.amazon.com/Taramps-Digi...4bb78239a3923e3085ffd640c94c8a12&gad_source=1
I think I understand. With a single mid/bass driver and single tweeter, placing tweeter as close as possible is favorable... and coaxial is ideal. However, with several mid/bass drivers and several tweeters, one would have to account for the distances between all of them. For instance, a tweeter placed close to one mid/bass driver would be farther away from the next one over and therefore cause more unfavorable interactions.
But would this not always be an issue with just about any application? For instance, take a pair of simple 2-way bookshelf speakers. The mid/bass and tweeters within the same cabinet might be close enough to each other, but put the next speaker 1 foot away and now the distance between the mid/bass of one speaker to the tweeter of the other becomes problematic. Correct?
All this are super-tweeters, which must be crossed at or over 5-6 kHz. Also, their dispersion is very limited.
Much better is this horn-loaded tweeter (you can cross it even at 3 kHz), with wide horizontal dispersion:
https://www.parts-express.com/Pyle-PH391-4-x-10-Horn-Tweeter-292-2624?quantity=1
Also, price is identical ($19.59, $19.02 for 4).
Two of them (in parallel) are enough for 8 woofers, angle them (one aiming down, one upwards), to make wider vertical dispersion - that can ameliorate lobbing, too.
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I think it would be useful for you to fully understand "Comb Filtering" and its implications.
https://www.google.com/search?q=comb+filtering+example&sca_esv=60662afef6529de3&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIJQfHXminFnph66sjXqQZn19cJqhg:1716608870905&source=hp&ei=Zl9RZrG5NK_R2roP2s6koA4&iflsig=AL9hbdgAAAAAZlFtdjYBUeDTz7UqLC0Rcdy1vxWQ08XT&oq=comb+filter&gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6GgIYAiILY29tYiBmaWx0ZXIqAggCMgsQABiABBiRAhiKBTIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABEj8igFQAFj1YnAAeACQAQCYAYYDoAHRFqoBBTItMy42uAEByAEA-AEBmAIJoALbF8ICChAjGIAEGCcYigXCAgQQIxgnwgIKEAAYgAQYQxiKBcICDhAuGIAEGLEDGNEDGMcBwgIIEAAYgAQYsQPCAhEQLhiABBixAxjRAxiDARjHAcICDhAAGIAEGLEDGIMBGIoFwgILEC4YgAQYsQMYgwHCAgsQABiABBixAxiDAcICExAjGIAEGKYDGCcYqAMYigUYiwPCAg4QABiABBiRAhiKBRiLA8ICGhAuGIAEGLEDGNEDGNIDGIMBGMcBGKgDGIsDwgIIEAAYgAQYiwPCAgsQABiABBixAxiLA8ICFxAuGIAEGKYDGMcBGKgDGIsDGI4FGK8BwgIFEC4YgASYAwCSBwcyLTIuNi4xoAfPSA&sclient=gws-wiz
PS.
Here is another contender for your tweeters >
https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/Speakers/PRO+Series/TS-B350PRO
Here is another contender for your tweeters >
https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/Speakers/PRO+Series/TS-B350PRO
OP wants these 4-ohm drivers:
https://www.parts-express.com/6-1-2-Poly-Cone-Woofer-4-Ohm-299-609?quantity=1
Do you have personal experience with those specific super tweeters and that specific horn-loaded tweeter? I mean no disrespect, but the reviews and comments on PE seem to imply the Pyramid super tweeters could be crossed as low as 2k (although most prefer 4k or higher) with good results. As for the Pyle horns, the comments seem to imply they are more like midrange and lack high end. The specs on those list frequency response topping out at 15k, and I've personally never seen a tweeter spec top out anything less than 20k. By design, I'm sure the dispersion of the horn is superior as you state.
I will read it, thanks.
I'm not necessarily locked into any particular size or impedance rating for any of the drivers for this part of the system. I started with a question about those drivers, but I'm now thinking the higher-power PA drivers might fit my application better. The amps I will be using are happy down to 2-ohms, so any parallel and series wiring that stays at 2 or above should be fine.
Hi @nikg736 ,
I think that you can achieve a "party speaker" with visual impact and acceptable sound.
Are you planning on taking the speaker out of the van and setting it outside for the event?
Could you describe the event?
It really matters what environment the speakers are going to be used in.
If the speakers are going to remain in the van are you going to simply slide the side door open and crank it up?
Are the people going to be moving around, sitting in a more or less stationary position, or far away playing baseball?
This information will let everyone know what you can "get away with," which compromises to make.
Jeremy
I think that you can achieve a "party speaker" with visual impact and acceptable sound.
Are you planning on taking the speaker out of the van and setting it outside for the event?
Could you describe the event?
It really matters what environment the speakers are going to be used in.
If the speakers are going to remain in the van are you going to simply slide the side door open and crank it up?
Are the people going to be moving around, sitting in a more or less stationary position, or far away playing baseball?
This information will let everyone know what you can "get away with," which compromises to make.
Jeremy
Jeremy...this is so ironic. As I was just eating breakfast I was thinking the exact same thing! I need to better explain exactly what I'm using this for. And you basically nailed it with your questions/assumptions.
It is a weekend event at Virginia International Raceway and we "camp" along with hundreds of other "campers" in what is basically a wide-open field. Each "campsite" is approximately 12x30ft, and they are in rows that are two-deep. We usually get 4-6 of them for our crew, so 2-3 adjacent spots that are 2 deep. Van is at the front of one campsite, so I swing the back doors open and have all the speakers there pointing directly out to where we have tents, tables, grill etc. There is no single listening space, and sometimes we are right up against the van, other times just in the camp. All the points about dispersion are well-taken, however, since this stays in the van, is somewhat directional, and restricted by the van itself anyway...I don't think concerns about off-axis response really come into play. I have a bed platform set up in the van and have the speakers beneath that. Approximate total dimensions to work with are 68" wide x 32" tall x 14" deep. The 14" depth is due to the wheel wells, so if you come in 12" from the sides I have more depth available.
This year I cobbled together a bunch of mismatched indoor speakers for the rear-facing array, and behind those were the amps, batteries and a pair of 15" subwoofers. It worked fine, but I would like to get more SPL and a more unified look for next year. I intend on using the 15" subs again, and I supplemented them with four 8" Goldwood PAC8 subs this year, but for next year I think I will add in a pair of old-school Adire Audio Brahma 12's that I've had for years and never done anything with. I have two mono amps for the subs, one at 2700W and the other at 1200W. Currently have a 2-channel 750w amp for non-subwoofer speakers, but I'm thinking of adding 1 or 2 more amps and a 4-way DSP/crossover so I can use a separate amp for each piece of 3-4 way system. Then I can cross and attenuate however I want to achieve the "best" sound. I'm thinking the subs get anything below maybe 80 or 100hz, but after that I'm not sure if I should go additional 2-way or 3-way. I suppose I could use those PAC8's to cover 100-200hz then something else to cover 200-4k and top off with 4k+ for tweets.
Along with all the other drivers already mentioned as possibilities, I found this one to add to the mix.
https://www.parts-express.com/GRS-8...-Pioneer-Type-B20FU20-51FW-292-430?quantity=1
Hopefully this helps.
Those super-tweeters may have different brand stickers, but they are essentially the same. The same goes for the "Pyle" tweeter. Yes, I have personal experience with those tweeters and super-tweeters (with different stickers) and I stand by my opinion.
Driver capable of 15 kHz is tweeter (not midrange!), by definition. Contrary to popular belief, 15 kHz is completely satisfactory for reproduction of high frequency spectra of any type of music - especially for the intended application.
Planet10 posted a phase coherence diagram for multiple drivers on a single baffle.
The fullrange / mid tweets may sound better if not placed next to each other.
As a line > W F W W W W F W . They are not against the cabinet and are not adjacent.
Using a passive crossover is not likely to provide enough cut to mid bass frequencies to sound good. Keep in mind many 6 inch woofers can play to 5khz loud.
The fullrange / mid tweets may sound better if not placed next to each other.
As a line > W F W W W W F W . They are not against the cabinet and are not adjacent.
Using a passive crossover is not likely to provide enough cut to mid bass frequencies to sound good. Keep in mind many 6 inch woofers can play to 5khz loud.
Picture says it all about what I am currently thinking. Recommendation was to put full range and tweets farther away from each other, so I have those moved to the outsides. I figure 4 full range and 2 tweeters should be sufficient to play plenty loud if crossed high enough so as not to stress them. Maybe have the woofers 80hz - 250hz? 500hz? I figure if the full range were high pass at 250hz-500hz then they won't be stressed and can essentially be used as mids all the way up to 4k-6k above which any tweeter I wind up with should be happy to play without getting stressed.
The only reason to use the PAC8 subwoofers is because I already have 4 of them. If I was to use four of those and 4 of the GRS8PT-8 woofers, then what would be the suggested location for each of those groupings? Spots (2-5) for one group and (10-13) for the other? Or (2,5,10,13) and (3,4,11,12)?
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