Small La Scala Tutorial for noob

[David McBean]

Im block from downloading Hornsresp & some other programs as well.

That sounds more like over-zealous anti-virus software to me, rather than a Windows 10 issue.

Setup.exe is an executable file, which may be causing your security software to prevent it from being downloaded. Usually it is possible to manually over-ride such blockings, if you are satisfied that the download file is coming from a reputable source.

 

[GM]

Ack! You're right, I forgot to post it's AVAST that blocks me, though if there's a way to permanently let it in I don't have a clue how to do it.

GM

 

[sumotan]

Thanks David , I tried to over ride it & continue to download. Forgot what was written but it said go back to safety.

Many thanks again Freddi, will look into Williams Cowans design as well.

Cheers

 

[GM]

btw, two 10FW64 in William Cowan's 2-10" bass horn look pretty good in corner sim. I wonder if his assumption of a corner's mouth extension could be used with other simulation ?

Looks like it needs a very low Vtc, increased Vrc to smooth it out, increase HF response. He implies his measurements closely matches the sim, so assume he fiddled with HR until it ~matched his measurements, so short of doing similar, inclined to accept it. Again though, this is with the cab aimed directly at the corner's center.

GM

 

[freddi]

Oh - I've not read that in years and totally forgot it was facing the corner 🙁 Wayne's Pi 7 cornerhorn probably works pretty well for its low complexity. I assume leaving off S4-S5 sims it right for facing outwards.

GM - can you think of a nice 10fw64 design for the OP? Will a MLTL flatten the sway-back curve seen in some sims?

 

[GM]

btw, two 10FW64 in William Cowan's 2-10" bass horn look pretty good in corner sim. I wonder if his assumption of a corner's mouth extension could be used with other simulation ?

Looks like it needs a very low Vtc, increased Vrc to smooth it out, increase HF response.

He implies his measurements closely matches the 1.0 m sim, so assume he fiddled with HR until it ~matched his measurements, so short of doing similar, inclined to accept it. Again though, this is with the cab aimed directly at the corner's center.

Moving it out to 2 m combined a low as practical Vtc, doubled Vrc [56 L] seems a worthwhile tweak.

GM

 

[GM]

Oh - I've not read that in years and totally forgot it was facing the corner 🙁 Wayne's Pi 7 cornerhorn probably works pretty well for its low complexity. I assume leaving off S4-S5 sims it right for facing outwards.

GM - can you think of a nice 10fw64 design for the OP? Will a MLTL flatten the sway-back curve seen in some sims?

Correct.

Don't recall ever seeing any details, measurements of the 7Pi.

edit: Just now found this though and it's beyond ugly/nasty: Pi 7 Cornerhorns - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

edit 2: need to read the whole thread as there were some measuring problems, but didn't report back with how corrections + EQ solved his problems, so quessing it came out OK in the end.

It's a low Qt, Vas driver, so short of horn loading would at best need an inverse tapered TQWT tuned to Fs or maybe lower for corner loading, which hopefully will be enough to get it up to its ~95 dB mid-band efficiency.

GM

 

[freddi]

ha - so its not nice to cheat mother nature with regards to the use of the word "horn"

my solution for 10fw64 is when everything looks like a nail - to this and push it back into the corner. 😀😀

I've got an old beat K12 cabinet with pym1298 (like Kappa12a) topped with a K-tube - it beats my Klipschorns for "GRAB"
with a Rudy Rosa (RIP) CD when Rudy kicked in the heavy strings on his synth.

I don't know the best vent placement for this cabinet if a single 12-18 sq.in. vent were substituted for the distributed
slit vent - ??

 

[freddi]

I know its not the form factor nor type of cabinet sumotan wants for his B&C 10FW64, but a Druid/Pensil type looks ok.
GM - could something shorter in height be made with similar or better response ?

 

[sumotan]

Wow thank you so kindly Freddi really appreciate your efforts in helping me out.
After your tutorial Im now open minded about how I should go about achieving my goals with more sucess. This Druid/Pensil skinny & very tall I don’t mind, may I ask if it’s a quater wave design of sorts as I see the it needs to be stuffed.
My original idea was to build a pair of mid bass enclosure with smooth band pass transition of 600-700 hz, bass 60-70 hz ok. Once I achieve this, will build 2 tall & skinny bass units to compliment it. Reason, I’ve always noticed that to get the best bass in the listening space never equates to getting the best sound for mids & highs etc. I have this issue with my ML Odyssey so it be compromise in positioning of speakers.

Thank You again Freddi

 

[GM]

GM - could something shorter in height be made with similar or better response ?

Around 36" i.d. is where the 1/4 WL action peters out, turning into a reflex/BR IME, but don't know what MJK's calculated point is.

GM

 

[freddi]

what would you build with a 10FW64 ? Could a folded T-line work well for it?

B&C Speaker 10FW64 - 10" Mid Bass

 

[GM]

My original idea was to build a pair of mid bass enclosure with smooth band pass transition of 600-700 hz, bass 60-70 hz ok. Once I achieve this, will build 2 tall & skinny bass units to compliment it. Reason, I’ve always noticed that to get the best bass in the listening space never equates to getting the best sound for mids & highs etc. I have this issue with my ML Odyssey so it be compromise in positioning of speakers.

Thank You again Freddi

FWIW, for 4+ decades I first ran corner loaded dual Altec 515B mid/bass horn drivers in ~70 Hz FLHs from 120 - 500 Hz + dual 515B subs and later sold the horns leaving the subs for ~14 - 500 Hz and frankly, except for the loss of efficiency I've preferred the latter overall.

That said, this was at a time when there was precious little output below ~25 Hz, though later added some smaller subs around the room for 'fill' similar to Dr. Geddes' system and they did the depth charges in the U-571 DVD good enough to literally make the ceiling rain down on us along with a lot of stuff stored in the attic, so I guess the point is, get the sufficient quantity of the right <sub>woofers for the app/job loaded in some form of damped TL and get the kind of 'snap', etc., of compression horns with/without corner loading, desired peak SPL setting number of drivers required and add a sub system to fill in where the mains roll off.

As much as big cinema horns lured me into this hobby at a very early age, thanks to plenty of clean power and myriad driver choices available nowadays for HIFI/HT apps, we don't need them for anything but short WGs [where the 'snap' is] to blend them through the XO points till we get up to ~500 - 1.6 kHz depending on the app and/or who you ask.

All that said, if I ever build up another big system it will be Synergy horn concept based. :)

GM</sub>

 

[sumotan]

Thank you kindly GM for your thoughts, your precisely correct, I want the snap that horn loading provides. Could have taken simple route a la Econowave but that does not appeal to me.

Cheers

 

[GM]

what would you build with a 10FW64 ? Could a folded T-line work well for it?

It has good specs for a MLTQWT, but for a baseline, here's a well damped ~28.2 L net where Vb = Vas, Fs = Fb reflex in 24" i.d. that may suffice, especially if near/at a corner:

GM

 

[GM]

Thank you kindly GM for your thoughts, your precisely correct, I want the snap that horn loading provides. Could have taken simple route a la Econowave but that does not appeal to me.

Cheers

You're welcome! Just need to add a short WG to it and adjust XO to suit.

GM

 

[freddi]

I use Karlson for "kick" - - but do like some horns* - a Synergy with 2-10" or 12 4- mids and a compression driver which goes down low enough to meet a subwoofer yet be smaller than say a La Scala's bass section would be welcomed (other than a bunch of un-repaired hernia)

a little K12 (3.3 cubic foot bulk) with Pyle pym1298 (same as Eminence Kappa12a) topped with a K-tube is more fun for me than my FH1 with K55V-511/APT150 and sounds more like its grabbing the air on a Rudy Rosa (RIP) CD than my Klipschorn. The old original 15" Karlson box can deliver jaw dropping punch with 1/8" peak to peak excursion. i would not use a Karlson with flea watt amp.

(* - if my room walls didn't bend then my K-horns probably would sound much better - I've an interesting midbass horn based on a RCA-Fan horn, a 0.7 size "Classic" which is cool and some Sentry IV sitting - I'd like to ditch the FH1 so could play with the Sentry or my Karlson stuff)

you could probably build that "Dutch K12" variant of the Karlson and poke the 10FW64 into it - not sure how it would do - I have 12pe32 in the slit vent K12 in that picture with it and a Large Advent.

btw - here's that pipe made shorter and down to 55 liters airspace in 2 pi

 

[sumotan]

Hi Freddi & GM
Thank you both so kindly for the effort & tutorial. Firstly there’s no corner in my listening space cause it pretty wide, closest to the back wall will be like 2 ft away. My ML are about 5.5 ft away from the back wall.
Anyway while surfing, I came across a thread in this forum way back in 2010.
I saw this Fostex 206 like backloaded horn with a 10 inch woofer, so I message the gentleman asking if I could some how use the 10FW64, his reply was that the 10FW64 is best with front loading like Altec speakers, well the only Altec that I know is the A7. Lol

Again thank you both very much. Cheers

 

[freddi]

re:back load - it should be fine in the right horn - have GM or "Godzilla" do a "BIB" type for it.

re: front load - two examples

0.83 scale MT130

0.66 scale CLASSIC

 

[sumotan]

Wow many thanks again Freddi. 0.66 Classic which model is this pls.
Re MT130 if I increase the back chamber & do like la scala mod adding a reflex box
will it still function as the simulated ?

Cheers