I believe Hawksford in that article gave some technical/physical arguments. These can be countered with other technical/physical arguments. No need to flee into religious 'audiophile views'.
Jan
Jan
May be.
More extended version in Stereophile Magazine (with pictires and formulas):
The Essex Echo 1995: Electrical Signal Propagation & Cable Theory | Stereophile.com
The problem being that it's bollocks. It was bollocks in the 1980s when it was first published, it was still bollocks in the 1990s when it was reprinted, and it's bollocks now. The equations contained are perfectly valid in and of themselves; unfortunately you can't say the same for the method of application / interpretation. Or the presentation of data, test methodology and equipment for that matter.
I ran a mobile disco at 225WRMS, up to 20KHz, on 13 amp mains wire, for many years without any problems.
Its only once you get into SMPS frequencies (80KHz+) that it starts to become a problem.
I'm not qualified to say anything about that. I just hope we are not going to counter it with 'audiophile views'. ...
Jan
Slightly off thread but....
I'm sorry that I did not read the whole thread, but back on page three about magnetic focusing in CRT's I used to work for Ampro back in the '90s (CRT projection data monitors) and we did use magnetic focusing on our high end projectors in addition to modulated electrostatic focus.The focusing coils act the same way that color purity magnets act in three gun CRT's.
I know that I am commenting on a 16 year old post, but it does exist.
In about 1993-1994, Electromagnetic focusing was introduced. This consisted of the main electronic focusing as well as the magnets around the CRT’s, however an additional focus coil. was added around the neck of the picture tube. This allowed the electron beam to be focused more than with ES focus, and projectors with EM focus will allow specific areas of the screen to be focused independently. Found in all current mid to high end date grade projectors, and is desirable to have (but also adds to the price of a used projector). Perhaps most importantly, EM focusing sets maintain about 95% of the original focusing capability over the life of the tube. EM focusing tubes will still produce poor colors after the phosphor has significant wear on it, but the tubes retain the ability to focus over long periods of run time.
CRT Projector Electrostatic (ES) vs Electromagnetic (EM) Focus
I'm sorry that I did not read the whole thread, but back on page three about magnetic focusing in CRT's I used to work for Ampro back in the '90s (CRT projection data monitors) and we did use magnetic focusing on our high end projectors in addition to modulated electrostatic focus.The focusing coils act the same way that color purity magnets act in three gun CRT's.
I know that I am commenting on a 16 year old post, but it does exist.
In about 1993-1994, Electromagnetic focusing was introduced. This consisted of the main electronic focusing as well as the magnets around the CRT’s, however an additional focus coil. was added around the neck of the picture tube. This allowed the electron beam to be focused more than with ES focus, and projectors with EM focus will allow specific areas of the screen to be focused independently. Found in all current mid to high end date grade projectors, and is desirable to have (but also adds to the price of a used projector). Perhaps most importantly, EM focusing sets maintain about 95% of the original focusing capability over the life of the tube. EM focusing tubes will still produce poor colors after the phosphor has significant wear on it, but the tubes retain the ability to focus over long periods of run time.
CRT Projector Electrostatic (ES) vs Electromagnetic (EM) Focus
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Your post is certainly apropos...The focus discussion was the current wave of posts, not from 2003.
I thought alex was talking about using the dipole deflection coils to focus, but he was talking about the solenoidal coils.
John
Thanks it is good to know the origins of bollocks that keep poping up again and again. It deserves a myth busters anthology.
😀
Let's go back to skin effect.
I had one with a 27 MHz power transmitter that had enough power to burn my finger too close to the RF coil.
A very simple oscillator. Hartley ( aka Mesny ) based on a 3A5 tube with 135V at the plates.
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I puzzled over the physics of speaker cables for quite awhile before deciding to make my own from 24 strand teflon coated automotive loom wire, using a four wire plait - mainly because it is of reasonable quality and cheap. Theory has it that a 4 wire plait enables the resultant cable to more or less self-cancel out any radio frequency interference, or other forms of electromagnetic modulation well beyond my ken.
So, I read through this thread and come to Nigel Hawthorn's reasonable assertion that single strand 13 amp flex does the job just fine. I have no reason to disbelieve this, and if this true (as I am sure it is) then is what I have done with a four way plait simply overkill? Or, would the use of just two 24 strand wires in and out my speaker be good enough? Would I ever be able to hear the difference?
BTW, all the other interconnect cables in my rig are of music studio (read modest but good) quality, running between battery operated bottom shelf electronics. I would like to understand the issue better, as my main interest is designing and building ultra efficient horn speakers. ToS
So, I read through this thread and come to Nigel Hawthorn's reasonable assertion that single strand 13 amp flex does the job just fine. I have no reason to disbelieve this, and if this true (as I am sure it is) then is what I have done with a four way plait simply overkill? Or, would the use of just two 24 strand wires in and out my speaker be good enough? Would I ever be able to hear the difference?
BTW, all the other interconnect cables in my rig are of music studio (read modest but good) quality, running between battery operated bottom shelf electronics. I would like to understand the issue better, as my main interest is designing and building ultra efficient horn speakers. ToS
Attachments
Your four wire plait looks like it might effectively be a twist (which is best for cancellation of interference) The way twisting works is simple enough and has been known for a long time. Have a look at using star quad for speakers. Star quad cable - Wikipedia
Thank you for that Scott, it looks like I have done the right thing. The cable in question is only 9ft long, and I doubt if I am missing any high end. Including the banana plug connectors, the total cost worked out to be £1 per foot.
Audiophile obsession with 'high-end' cables baffles me completely. ToS
Happy workers day people!
Interesting thread. To my ears both Kate Bush and Joan Baez sings a bit out of tune. For Kate Bush most of the time. I wonder if its her natural way of singing or something she adapted to stand out. Much of the time its not even unpleasant, but I cant listen to her for a longer session. I wish she would rerecord her best songs and sing them in tune. Her voice is beautyfull as her material so she doesnt really need the gimmick - if thats what it is.
I heard a live LP with Baez not so long ago on lyngdorf amp and I think Dali speakers. Its was like she was just a few meters away - beautyfull.
Tomorrow I will have my debut with a workers choir on the big stage in our park. Great comrades. I will advise you all to join one. You dont have to sing well - we rarely do.
Is there any way I can check whose ignorelist I am on?
Best regards!
Interesting thread. To my ears both Kate Bush and Joan Baez sings a bit out of tune. For Kate Bush most of the time. I wonder if its her natural way of singing or something she adapted to stand out. Much of the time its not even unpleasant, but I cant listen to her for a longer session. I wish she would rerecord her best songs and sing them in tune. Her voice is beautyfull as her material so she doesnt really need the gimmick - if thats what it is.
I heard a live LP with Baez not so long ago on lyngdorf amp and I think Dali speakers. Its was like she was just a few meters away - beautyfull.
Tomorrow I will have my debut with a workers choir on the big stage in our park. Great comrades. I will advise you all to join one. You dont have to sing well - we rarely do.
Is there any way I can check whose ignorelist I am on?
Best regards!
No, it involves removing the whole insulation on 50' of wire or more, than I need to warp some tape which is flimsy an unstable and poor dielectric. So it is almost a guarantee to waste over 50' of costly copper wire.
And yes I can do the Z tests and the THD etc with reference as described, I have 2 analyzers channels for the power amp output and the software to do the comparison.
But, I have 0 urge to improve my system sound by this mean, but buying a new set of 32w8 scan-speak woofer and place it in the best enclosure possible with bracings, big quality vent, a great amp with regulated power supply and quality inductors, this I understand.
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I (and probably you) know PhDs who can not write coherently.
Skin effect will show more on loaded cables. And wideband resistive loads, not our inductive speakers.
Skin effect shows in television cables. The slow (slower than 1-pole) fall of response above 1MHz or 10MHz is partly skin effect. The universal correction is a rising equalizer. (Go out to the end of the street, bust-open the cable-TV boxes. At least one in your neighborhood has an EQ trimmer, now probably aimed above 100MHz.)
Translated to 600r or 10k line terminations at 20+KHz the effect is none. If you had an 8 Ohm *resistor* loudspeaker, the inductance matters more than the skin effect.
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