You are right: I must fiddle around with this value.
So, my answer: just tried the 150r up to now.
Franz
Please let us know..... I am considering buying one 103 and would apreciate your input.
Ricardo
Ricardo
Ricardo
I bought my DL10R at a time, when I also had a DL103 and a TSD15.
And, together with the Lundahl 1:13 stepups I used at this time, the TSD15 was the best. Quite a big difference to the DL103's.
And second the DL103. Third the DL103R.
The R was not as integrated in the sound as the normal 103. A little bit more harsh.
Today, I dont have a normal 103 available to compare. So I just use the R. And rely on Salas's datas, as he is also using this cart. He must have tested it, I am sure.
But, I could not say if the higher price of the R version gives you what you want and pay for.
As a general advice: nothing beats the price/performance relationsship of a standard DL103.
Franz
I bought my DL10R at a time, when I also had a DL103 and a TSD15.
And, together with the Lundahl 1:13 stepups I used at this time, the TSD15 was the best. Quite a big difference to the DL103's.
And second the DL103. Third the DL103R.
The R was not as integrated in the sound as the normal 103. A little bit more harsh.
Today, I dont have a normal 103 available to compare. So I just use the R. And rely on Salas's datas, as he is also using this cart. He must have tested it, I am sure.
But, I could not say if the higher price of the R version gives you what you want and pay for.
As a general advice: nothing beats the price/performance relationsship of a standard DL103.
Franz
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Guys, this is a 103R right? 103 has different coils, much more Ohm. Me I use 150R for Denon DL103R.
Ricardo
... at least when you have the suitable tonearm.
Because of the low compliance of the DL103 family, you need some mass to reach good tracking.
Definitely not suitable for a low mass tonearm.
Franz
... at least when you have the suitable tonearm.
Because of the low compliance of the DL103 family, you need some mass to reach good tracking.
Definitely not suitable for a low mass tonearm.
Franz
I think so. At least: in tnt-audio they have a report with DL103/RB 300.
In my case, Thorens TD160/TP12, I added a 4g coin on the headshell and a small piece of lead at the counterweight.
Franz
I have a Linn Ekos medium mass & match very well with the Denon DL103R, Salas use medium or low mass with his Denon DL103R & he told that sounds very well also.
Have you measured the real weight with a precision Arm Load Meter? I tell you because I do it & the real weight measured with the Arm Load Meter is not the same that marked in the tonearm.
Have you tested with a test record LP the real FS that have you combination cart/arm, tell me the tonearm are you using to tell you the FS recomended.
Have you measured the real weight with a precision Arm Load Meter? I tell you because I do it & the real weight measured with the Arm Load Meter is not the same that marked in the tonearm.
Have you tested with a test record LP the real FS that have you combination cart/arm, tell me the tonearm are you using to tell you the FS recomended.
Frequency resonance, so is the frequency in Hz that cart with arm resounds, when you use a test record you see how the cart moves laterally.
Like Salas load 150R for mine DL103R.
Ricardo tell me your cart & your arm so I will tell you the right FS for your combo.
Ricardo tell me your cart & your arm so I will tell you the right FS for your combo.
Well actually I have a RB300 with a DL160.
I am planning to upgrade the TT and the cart but I do not have enough € for the tonearm so I will keep the BR300.
I am planning to upgrade the TT and the cart but I do not have enough € for the tonearm so I will keep the BR300.
Denon DL160
Type high output moving coil
Output Voltage 1.6mV
Frequency Response 20Hz - 50kHz
Tracking Force 1.6 +/- 0.3g
Mass 4.8g
Channel Separation > 28db
Channel Balance < 1db
Load Impedance 47k ohms
Output Impedance 160 ohms
Styus Tip 0.07 x 0.14mm special elliptical
Cantilever aluminium tapered pipe
Dynamic Compliance 10x10-6cm/Dyne
Notes
*Denon publishes their dynamic compliance specifications relative to 100Hz . The actual compliance at 10Hz will be higher. Mine 5 at 100Hz, real at 10Hz 17.5
Rega RB300
Eff length 237
O/H 15
O/S 21.63
Pivot to spindle 222
Cartridge weight 4-11
Arm mass 11.5
VTA n
MP 23
HS fix
Null Points 60.0 / 114.7
Effective length : distance from stylus tip to pivot point (mm)
O/H (overhang): distance from stylus tip to spindle centre (mm)
O/S (offset): offset angle (degrees)
Pivot to spindle : distance from pivot point to spindle centre (mm) this is normally the same as mounting distance
Cartridge weight : cartridge weight range (g)
Arm mass : arm effective mass (g)
VTA : verticle tracking angle adjustment (yes/no)
MP (mounting): mounting pattern for arm base (mm dia or type)
HS (headshell) fix - fixed headshell
rem - removeable headshell
sme - sme type removeable headshell
arm - removeable arm
Null points : calculated from effective length / overhang / offset (mm)
Tonearm Effective Mass 11.5
Cartridge mass 4.8
Mounting hardware 0.5
FS between 8-9Hz will be optimum
Type high output moving coil
Output Voltage 1.6mV
Frequency Response 20Hz - 50kHz
Tracking Force 1.6 +/- 0.3g
Mass 4.8g
Channel Separation > 28db
Channel Balance < 1db
Load Impedance 47k ohms
Output Impedance 160 ohms
Styus Tip 0.07 x 0.14mm special elliptical
Cantilever aluminium tapered pipe
Dynamic Compliance 10x10-6cm/Dyne
Notes
*Denon publishes their dynamic compliance specifications relative to 100Hz . The actual compliance at 10Hz will be higher. Mine 5 at 100Hz, real at 10Hz 17.5
Rega RB300
Eff length 237
O/H 15
O/S 21.63
Pivot to spindle 222
Cartridge weight 4-11
Arm mass 11.5
VTA n
MP 23
HS fix
Null Points 60.0 / 114.7
Effective length : distance from stylus tip to pivot point (mm)
O/H (overhang): distance from stylus tip to spindle centre (mm)
O/S (offset): offset angle (degrees)
Pivot to spindle : distance from pivot point to spindle centre (mm) this is normally the same as mounting distance
Cartridge weight : cartridge weight range (g)
Arm mass : arm effective mass (g)
VTA : verticle tracking angle adjustment (yes/no)
MP (mounting): mounting pattern for arm base (mm dia or type)
HS (headshell) fix - fixed headshell
rem - removeable headshell
sme - sme type removeable headshell
arm - removeable arm
Null points : calculated from effective length / overhang / offset (mm)
Tonearm Effective Mass 11.5
Cartridge mass 4.8
Mounting hardware 0.5
FS between 8-9Hz will be optimum
Thank you so much Merlin !!!
Using your data, I tryed to calc optimum FS in here: http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridg....php?m=Denon+DL160&cm=4.8&dc=10&search=search
I deduced 13Hz (BAD)
But if compliance is higher than 10, maybe it is ok. For 15 compliance I calculated 10Hz.... Yes I also made a calculator for this 🙂 Resƒ = 1000 /2Pi (Sqrt(Compliance x Total Mass)
I tryed some bluetack in the headshell but I needed to unscrew the counterweight to compensate and it sounded worst.
Using your data, I tryed to calc optimum FS in here: http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridg....php?m=Denon+DL160&cm=4.8&dc=10&search=search
I deduced 13Hz (BAD)
But if compliance is higher than 10, maybe it is ok. For 15 compliance I calculated 10Hz.... Yes I also made a calculator for this 🙂 Resƒ = 1000 /2Pi (Sqrt(Compliance x Total Mass)
I tryed some bluetack in the headshell but I needed to unscrew the counterweight to compensate and it sounded worst.
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Don't forget the alignement Protractor for your Rega:
Please be sure to print with the same distances in mm
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Please be sure to print with the same distances in mm
Denon carts give misleading compliance. I have measured 8.5Hz with the 103R on my Mission 774. Its a low mass arm and would be a no no If I haven't read that the 774 was a favorite combination with the normal 103 in the old days. So I proceeded, got the cart, and the ancients were proven right. Not bouncy at all on the sprung sub chassis of my Walker CJ58 that I salvaged and fixed just before it hit the trash bin at a friend's.🙂
I already knew about FS but I usually call it RF (Resonant Freq) I own a RD80 for more than 30 years now so I am quite at ease with the calculations but know that subjective opinions are very important.
It is strange but the DL160 sings with the very low mass SME3009. With the Rega it sounds light.
I already have the protractor from Manu 🙂
It is strange but the DL160 sings with the very low mass SME3009. With the Rega it sounds light.
I already have the protractor from Manu 🙂
@Rcruz
The vinylengine calculator is only for compliances 10Hz, so it's bad as I said before: *Denon publishes their dynamic compliance specifications relative to 100Hz . The actual compliance at 10Hz will be higher.
@Salas
Mine DL103R the database compliance said 5 at 100Hz when in the real world at 10Hz is 17.5 so becarefor with Denon compliances aren't rate at 10Hz always are rated at 100Hz.