1. Soundeasy costs money. There is free software out there that does pretty much the same thing and may be a better place to start.
2. Sketchup can be hard work. Recently released free online CAD software like onshape and the autocad equivalent may be a better choice.
3. Reliable measurements require a calibrated measurement microphone. Recording microphones can get you something but it will need careful interpretation.
1. What free programs might be able to take the place of soundeasy?
2. I already use sketchup. I find that it keeps me from wasting wood.
3. The nice part about saving money on the speakers is I now have an excuse to add another mic to my collection. Mrs Nice, a calibrated directional guitar mic is critical to this project🙂
One step in your plan looks shaky to me.
Step 6, purchase a crossover.
Unfortunately, unless you're getting a planned kit, off-the-shelf, generic crossovers are rarely right for a project. Please see the sticky posting here, "http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/189847-introduction-designing-crossovers-without-measurement.html"
In order to design a good crossover, you will need measuring mic, and all that stuff, too. The crossover is the most difficult and important part.
You can get plans, and as long as the cabinet is roughly the right size, have some confidence of good results. If you start with an "off the shelf" crossover, you can have confidence that the results will be less than excellent.
Yes, there are people here that will help you design a crossover, but the process can be frustrating for you.
Step 6, purchase a crossover.
Unfortunately, unless you're getting a planned kit, off-the-shelf, generic crossovers are rarely right for a project. Please see the sticky posting here, "http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/189847-introduction-designing-crossovers-without-measurement.html"
In order to design a good crossover, you will need measuring mic, and all that stuff, too. The crossover is the most difficult and important part.
You can get plans, and as long as the cabinet is roughly the right size, have some confidence of good results. If you start with an "off the shelf" crossover, you can have confidence that the results will be less than excellent.
Yes, there are people here that will help you design a crossover, but the process can be frustrating for you.
It sounds like you're on the right track. When choosing drivers, the frequency response flatness is often the most important thing. With woofers, pay attention to the Xmax spec. Bring the connections out to Banana jacks on the back of the cabinet, and build a passive crossover that plugs onto the banana jacks, so you can mess with the crossover later.
Although you might need a good calibrated mic to measure the whole FR, a cheap random mic is often good enough for checking the level matching between woofer, mid and tweeter at the crossover points, and looking at the low frequency flatness.
One of the most important things is how the speakers integrate into your room, both aesthetically and acoustically. Go look at many speaker systems at a Hi-Fi store (or on the web), and get an idea of what seems about right for you regarding size, shape, and looks.
Bass reflex is IMO the poor mans way to get a little more bass extension. The cone damping is weak on either side of the tuned frequency, so active EQ is not recommended. A closed box woofer will have less bass extension, but can handle active EQ making it acoustically pretty flat down to 30HZ. Once you've heard that, there's no going back IMO. If you like your music pretty loud, I'd go for a 12 inch woofers (Peerless XXLS for ex.).
A good approach is to put the woofers in separate cabinets, so they can be positioned in the room in a way that works best with the acoustics of the room, while the "satalites" which handle the higher frequencies (above roughly 100HZ) can be positioned to present the best "sound stage".
There are many good drivers out there at any price, and many bad ones. The harder the cone material, the better the resolution, but they always seem to have bad resonance issues in the upper frequencies, often right where the ear is most sensitive, which require high order crossover slopes.
If you want crossover slopes that are higher than 2 pole (12dB/octave), go active. Getting a high order passive crossover right is a BIG task. Don't worry about time alignment. It's debatable whether anyone can hear the difference, largely because of what room acoustics does to the sound by the time it reaches your ear.
Any frequency selective filter causes phase shift. Driver rolloffs cause phase shift too. When checking the final result, make sure that's right, or you could have a null in the FR at the crossover freq. Any polyproylene caps are fine. Cheap coils are fine. Don't get tricked into thinking you need expensive parts for the crossover. Same thing with wire. 16AWG AC line cord from a hardware store at 50 cents a foot is just as good as any other wire unless the length is over about 25 feet. Keep coils away from each other and magnets.
A system that measures flat often sounds dull, harsh, and lacking warmth. Having good tone controls is a huge feature. I designed and built a 4 section Baxandall circuit that I love. People who have no tone controls are clueless suckers.
Although you might need a good calibrated mic to measure the whole FR, a cheap random mic is often good enough for checking the level matching between woofer, mid and tweeter at the crossover points, and looking at the low frequency flatness.
One of the most important things is how the speakers integrate into your room, both aesthetically and acoustically. Go look at many speaker systems at a Hi-Fi store (or on the web), and get an idea of what seems about right for you regarding size, shape, and looks.
Bass reflex is IMO the poor mans way to get a little more bass extension. The cone damping is weak on either side of the tuned frequency, so active EQ is not recommended. A closed box woofer will have less bass extension, but can handle active EQ making it acoustically pretty flat down to 30HZ. Once you've heard that, there's no going back IMO. If you like your music pretty loud, I'd go for a 12 inch woofers (Peerless XXLS for ex.).
A good approach is to put the woofers in separate cabinets, so they can be positioned in the room in a way that works best with the acoustics of the room, while the "satalites" which handle the higher frequencies (above roughly 100HZ) can be positioned to present the best "sound stage".
There are many good drivers out there at any price, and many bad ones. The harder the cone material, the better the resolution, but they always seem to have bad resonance issues in the upper frequencies, often right where the ear is most sensitive, which require high order crossover slopes.
If you want crossover slopes that are higher than 2 pole (12dB/octave), go active. Getting a high order passive crossover right is a BIG task. Don't worry about time alignment. It's debatable whether anyone can hear the difference, largely because of what room acoustics does to the sound by the time it reaches your ear.
Any frequency selective filter causes phase shift. Driver rolloffs cause phase shift too. When checking the final result, make sure that's right, or you could have a null in the FR at the crossover freq. Any polyproylene caps are fine. Cheap coils are fine. Don't get tricked into thinking you need expensive parts for the crossover. Same thing with wire. 16AWG AC line cord from a hardware store at 50 cents a foot is just as good as any other wire unless the length is over about 25 feet. Keep coils away from each other and magnets.
A system that measures flat often sounds dull, harsh, and lacking warmth. Having good tone controls is a huge feature. I designed and built a 4 section Baxandall circuit that I love. People who have no tone controls are clueless suckers.
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Some of the ones mentioned here with guides perhaps. The Jeff Bagby spreadsheets are popular and so getting help with them should be relatively easy. Perhaps I should add that I am not speaking against soundeasy which is a nice package if you are happy to pay for it.1. What free programs might be able to take the place of soundeasy?
1. What free programs might be able to take the place of soundeasy?
DocNice,
The go-to resource for speaker building is generally considered to be The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook. Heretically, I find it contains a lot of of non useful material to the novice and have found Speaker Building 201 to be a lot more practical. But get both if you want.
Still, neither book uses any of the free software that many (most?) of the serious hobbyists are using. For that and more, head over to the Speaker Building Bible at the Parts Express Forum. Read as much as is relevant for your situation (although some links are now dead) but look in particular in the Speaker Designing with Software section and the Essential Speaker Building Software (by J Bagsby) section.
Try this link to the FRD Consortium if the one in the Bible doesn't work, FRD Consortium. In particular, you'll want to try SPLTrace and Unibox, which I like a little better than WinISD.
Also some other new useful programs:
New-automatic-graph-tracing-program - very time saving when it works
WinPCD
XSim-free-schematic-based-crossover-designer-program
For understanding some of the driver selection criteria and as a resource, zaph audio is indispensable.
I can't remember if someone already suggested this but I might also recommend that you choose a proven design to start off with, perhaps something that might work as your eventual surround speakers like J Bagsby's Piccolos or the Mandolins both using high value SB Acoustic drivers, but try to design them yourself instead. This way you can compare everything you come up with against what a pro has done. Should speed up the learning curve a little bit.
Best of luck.
Another program no one mentioned is ARTA. Last time I checked a free version was available. It's fairly sophisticated if you want to get into high end testing.
There's a lot of great advice on these pages. Don't let any of it overwhelm you. Take what you can use and leave the rest (maybe for later). Especially when it comes to software. Remember we do our best learning from our mistakes. With the path you seem to be on, you'll be very well educated in one month. You will create a great speaker. Be excited. 🙂
There's a lot of great advice on these pages. Don't let any of it overwhelm you. Take what you can use and leave the rest (maybe for later). Especially when it comes to software. Remember we do our best learning from our mistakes. With the path you seem to be on, you'll be very well educated in one month. You will create a great speaker. Be excited. 🙂
1. What free programs might be able to take the place of soundeasy?
Let me reiterate:
A. Hobby.
-IF you decide to make it a hobby then purchase/learn/make-use of software/hardware that allows you to prototype crossovers "on the fly" digitally. Soundeasy and LspCad Pro are the usual suspects here. They require a computer and an appropriate sound card, AND they require multiple amplifier channels to output each "leg" of the crossover to each driver. Basically you need a full duplex sound card with 8 or more channels out and 4 (or more) stereo amplifiers (..which is 8+ channels of power).
This recommendation is made regardless of either utilizing an active design, or a passive design (..for crossovers).
Also, you will need additional testing hardware: a Calibrated mic, and enough free-space in a quiet environment (..and usually a large test-baffle as well). It's also a lot easier to just use Dayton DATS for measuring driver parameters (rather than utilizing Soundeasy or LspCad which have this testing ability). You can use other software for mic.-based freq./distortion measurements, but you can also use either of those program's for those measurements.
That's:
1. Soundeasy
2. Soundeasy approved Sound Card with enough analog channel outs (..and a Windows OS computer to install it in).
3. Enough Amplification channels for your design (preferably in stereo).
4. Calibated Mic
5. Enough free space (without reflections) for measurements
6. AES "infinite baffle" for testing (placed optimally in that room with free space)
7. (optionally: Dayton DATS)
1.
SoundEasy Loudspeaker Design Software USB Key
2.
Look through the "Recommended Sound Cards or Digital Crossovers" with a sound card that has at least 8 channels out that will work with your system; Note: it doesn't have to be one of these cards, but if not - consider asking Soundeasy's maker if the card you have chosen will work.
Bodzio Software
3.
Up to you, but a multi-channel amp usually does the trick.
4.
Not any calibrated mic, but a calibrated measurement mic.
Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement Microphone
5.
Up to you.
6.
Ex.
Zaph|Audio
7.
Optionally, but almost mandatory IMO (..for speed and ease).
Dayton Audio DATS V2 Computer Based Audio Component Test System
It's not a cheap hobby. 😱
IF you don't do it this way (with a program like Soundeasy for digital crossover prototypes), you can easily end-up with a lot of complications and headaches (and loss of money) accumulating and storing parts for passive crossovers just for prototypes.
Thanks for all the great advice everyone.
Now time for me to ignore it!
Hi,
You can do it the hard way or the easy way. The hard way is
trying to work it all out yourself, the easy way is to compare
and learn from the conclusions of those that have done it well.
rgds, sreten.
Short answer to the first question in your list is "absolutely yes, maybe"
I think Benb said it best a few pages back -"do you want to DESIGN" your own - or would you be more comfortable to execute any of the numerous very well documented designs mentioned - by folks like Zaph, Troels, etc.
Do you really need to re-invent the wheel? Almost any application you can think of would probably have a proven design (or several) in the catalogs of the likes of those already mentioned.
I think Benb said it best a few pages back -"do you want to DESIGN" your own - or would you be more comfortable to execute any of the numerous very well documented designs mentioned - by folks like Zaph, Troels, etc.
Do you really need to re-invent the wheel? Almost any application you can think of would probably have a proven design (or several) in the catalogs of the likes of those already mentioned.
You can do it the hard way or the easy way. The hard way is trying to work it all out yourself, the easy way is to compare
and learn from the conclusions of those that have done it well.
Do you really need to re-invent the wheel? Almost any application you can think of would probably have a proven design (or several) in the catalogs of the likes of those already mentioned.
Clearly not everyone thinks I'm making a wise decision. Since I'm just in the research and learning phase, I might well run away from this idea next week. I may go in with bravado and leave with a useless lump of wood and electronics and my tail between my legs. But I can say this. Once you guys convinced me that this project is significant enough to really be challenging, the goal was no longer just to save money. Building a basic cabinet and soldering some wires is not what I had in mind. If I'm going to do this, I want the same thing out of it I get with my other hobbies. Lots of people have made a great lasagna, an bedside table or a pop song about the secret lives of lemurs (ok, maybe not the last one). The joy I get is in creating something I can call mine.
That said, consider me warned. I hope you won't be too grudging in your advice when I come back completely confused in a few weeks.

Nice drawing.
So, the plan looks boring, doesn't it? It's better to have much more experiences in reality. 😀 😛
So, the plan looks boring, doesn't it? It's better to have much more experiences in reality. 😀 😛
This hobby becomes a challenge if you desire quality sounding music the way "you" want to hear it. If anything that you listen to doesn't satisfy your soul and you believe that you can find your sound, then it becomes a challenge to find it..
A true audiophile knows how they want their music to sound and the quest to design and build a system to fulfill the personal need is the challenge..
If you are totally content with listening to a great concerto on a set of single driver bookshelf speakers, save yourself a lot of time and money. If you have an ear for a sound you desire, then you're in for a lifetime of challenge..
A true audiophile knows how they want their music to sound and the quest to design and build a system to fulfill the personal need is the challenge..
If you are totally content with listening to a great concerto on a set of single driver bookshelf speakers, save yourself a lot of time and money. If you have an ear for a sound you desire, then you're in for a lifetime of challenge..
If I were to put hours (weeks, months) of work into this, I'd get great drivers. You can get help with the project if it starts to go south. Silk purses and pig's ears, etc.
Building a basic cabinet and soldering some wires is not what I had in mind.
Hi,
Its not what most of us who know our stuff had in mind either.
Fact is your best bet is a proven design and your take on
building the cabinets which is plenty enough to worry about.
rgds, sreten.
DocNice - no-one here is trying to discourage you, all we are saying is that without underestimating your skill set with tools, or ability to scale the required learning curve for the system design aspect ( a mistake many of us have made with early projects), you're far more likely to get satisfying results by following a proven design.
Some of the designs referenced above can hardly be classified as simple monkey coffins with cheap components and cut and paste / online calculator derived crossovers - there is truly a $hit-load of system engineering behind some of them.
It is a simple fact of life that low volume bespoke and DIY builders pay more in time and treasure to complete a project than the mainstream manufacturers, but when well executed , the results can equal or surpass commercial products many times the final cost.
Once - actually even before - you settle on a design that suits your application, the community here will be falling over themselves to offer helpful advice - parsing through all that will be as much "fun" as the actual build 😀 .
Some of the designs referenced above can hardly be classified as simple monkey coffins with cheap components and cut and paste / online calculator derived crossovers - there is truly a $hit-load of system engineering behind some of them.
It is a simple fact of life that low volume bespoke and DIY builders pay more in time and treasure to complete a project than the mainstream manufacturers, but when well executed , the results can equal or surpass commercial products many times the final cost.
Once - actually even before - you settle on a design that suits your application, the community here will be falling over themselves to offer helpful advice - parsing through all that will be as much "fun" as the actual build 😀 .
I've been looking to replace my late 80's Advents, and unhappy with what my budget will buy me (~$2k). I've looked at used speakers and am seriously considering Salk speakers, but have never heard them.
However, I have become enchanted with the idea of building my own. I have some minimal qualifications.
My two main hobbies are:
1. woodworking (furniture) and
2. home studio music recording.
I have a very basic understanding of circuitry and electronic components
With some effort I think I can understand the technical aspects such as formulas and software. I've read Introduction to Loudspeaker design and mostly understood the concepts and formulas. I was thinking about using SoundEasy to design crossovers.
With this in mind, I'd like to build my own speakers. I could see maybe making the floor standing speakers, as well as the surrounds. Maybe I might even try to make some smaller ones for another room.
With that in mind, can you advise?
1. Should I do this? Am I kidding myself?
2. Is it reasonable that I could build my dream speakers (or at least some really amazing ones) right out of the gate? I understand there's some risk here, but I'm hoping I can either re-use most of the components if I get it wrong or sell the speakers to recoup some of the cost. (Also more specifically, are 3 ways reasonable to try right out of the gate?)
3. If not, should I try the surrounds first? What will I learn from doing it a couple of times vs. just being careful the first time around?
4. Will my budget get me appreciably better speakers than if I went and bought them in a store?
Designing and constructing loudspeakers brings great personal satisfaction and may be the perfect diversion for an ambitious audio enthusiast. Be forewarned that the knowledge and skills necessary require substantial time and experience to acquire. Without reasonably good testing equipment and design software, the chance of producing an acceptable result is fairly small. Fabricating a home theater system including mains, surrounds and a center channel from scratch would entail designing, building and testing at least three loudspeakers, a daunting task not suitable for the uninitiated. Subwoofers are relatively easy to design and construct by comparison, and are the best project for the novice.
Building loudspeakers from an established design(s) can be very rewarding and makes far more sense in most cases. The DIY Sound Group, Meniscus, Parts Express, Pi Speakers and others offer a wide array of designs including models that can offer astounding performance and superb value. These can serve as a platform for further endeavors while minimizing the risks and cost.
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You may well find the designer's comments on their designs worth reading and very educational. I commend you to designs from Zapf, Bagby, and Linkwitz. All three offer very good information about how they arrived at their designs. "kits" may include nothing beyond specifications up to fully assembled crossovers and knocked-down cabinets. You choose your own level of input, and proceed from there. For my next project, I plan to design my own cabinet, including constrained layer damping for the cabinet walls...., but will be using an already-designed crossover with driver choice.
"Should I build my own speakers"
Yes.......definitely, you will really enjoy the process.
Do ask yourself the following questions before you start a build however.
How much do I want to spend?
Where are the speakers going to live?
What are my size limits?
Are the speakers for all genres of music?
Will they need to do Home Theatre duties?
How loud will I need them to go?
How far do I want to go with measurement techniques?
Will this first pair be one of many? (of course)
Do not be put off by anyone's negativity about how rough the road might be ahead. If you give it enough thought and read a lot, your first pair of speakers will be very enjoyable. My first proper build made my Linn Isobariks sound dead and lifeless. I was stunned. (12 driver per side open baffle line array with no crossover)
Go for it without hesitation.
Yes.......definitely, you will really enjoy the process.
Do ask yourself the following questions before you start a build however.
How much do I want to spend?
Where are the speakers going to live?
What are my size limits?
Are the speakers for all genres of music?
Will they need to do Home Theatre duties?
How loud will I need them to go?
How far do I want to go with measurement techniques?
Will this first pair be one of many? (of course)
Do not be put off by anyone's negativity about how rough the road might be ahead. If you give it enough thought and read a lot, your first pair of speakers will be very enjoyable. My first proper build made my Linn Isobariks sound dead and lifeless. I was stunned. (12 driver per side open baffle line array with no crossover)
Go for it without hesitation.
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