back on topic:
If it didn't already include 3 tube amps I don't use as much these days, I'd be more than tempted to add the Mini-Watt to my stable - it's less than half the current cost of my Kingrex T20U and outboard supply, currently driving my TV speakers.
Based on my experience with FE126 in small BLHs of several flavors, as well as the effusive enthusiasm it's currently enjoying elsewhere, the power level is quite adequate for some folks that routinely listen at levels far greater than my own. The FE126E is less forgiving in the upper mid-range than FE127E or FE167E, and I frankly found the T20U somewhat fatiguing with the former driver, and quite listenable on the latter 2 - although still not with the same degree of 3D soundstage, etc., etc. as either 2A3 or 300B SET monoblocks. The combination of FE126E and SETs is quite seductive
Drivers with lower sensitivity that might otherwise work well enough in the FH (or any BLH/BVR design) might , however, exhibit less dynamic headroom and "WOW" factor on this little guy.
If it didn't already include 3 tube amps I don't use as much these days, I'd be more than tempted to add the Mini-Watt to my stable - it's less than half the current cost of my Kingrex T20U and outboard supply, currently driving my TV speakers.
Based on my experience with FE126 in small BLHs of several flavors, as well as the effusive enthusiasm it's currently enjoying elsewhere, the power level is quite adequate for some folks that routinely listen at levels far greater than my own. The FE126E is less forgiving in the upper mid-range than FE127E or FE167E, and I frankly found the T20U somewhat fatiguing with the former driver, and quite listenable on the latter 2 - although still not with the same degree of 3D soundstage, etc., etc. as either 2A3 or 300B SET monoblocks. The combination of FE126E and SETs is quite seductive
Drivers with lower sensitivity that might otherwise work well enough in the FH (or any BLH/BVR design) might , however, exhibit less dynamic headroom and "WOW" factor on this little guy.
Mr. Pass gets it spot on when he says it's a good start with regard to the t-amp.
Before I built my system, I had heard only my dad's tube amp,
which I have heard since I was ye high, as a reference.
And I found the t-amp offered a different kind of sound but
never really got close to matching the midrange or top end
sweetness and the amazing involvment that my dad's tube amp had.
The miniwatt takes this one step further. It has a superb
midrange but none of the woolliness some tube amps tend to have.
Plus its got a thumping bass (on the full-range drivers) and sweet yet
detailed top. In comparison with the t-amp, it simply peels off all the layers
of grain and takes you straight to the heart of the music.
And none of that fatigue either. You could listen to it for hours.
What makes me salivate is that there are still so many designs I can
build and enjoy that will better if not equal what I'm hearing today.
Human.bin,
I sympathize with you. I was a student less than a year ago. There
is not much else you can do apart from full rangers and the t-amp.
If you can afford the miniwatt, I'd highly recommend you get it.
It is a big step up from the t-amp and it will easily match your full
range drivers.
Before I built my system, I had heard only my dad's tube amp,
which I have heard since I was ye high, as a reference.
And I found the t-amp offered a different kind of sound but
never really got close to matching the midrange or top end
sweetness and the amazing involvment that my dad's tube amp had.
The miniwatt takes this one step further. It has a superb
midrange but none of the woolliness some tube amps tend to have.
Plus its got a thumping bass (on the full-range drivers) and sweet yet
detailed top. In comparison with the t-amp, it simply peels off all the layers
of grain and takes you straight to the heart of the music.
And none of that fatigue either. You could listen to it for hours.
What makes me salivate is that there are still so many designs I can
build and enjoy that will better if not equal what I'm hearing today.
Human.bin,
I sympathize with you. I was a student less than a year ago. There
is not much else you can do apart from full rangers and the t-amp.
If you can afford the miniwatt, I'd highly recommend you get it.
It is a big step up from the t-amp and it will easily match your full
range drivers.
chrisb, when you talk listening levels what spl are you thinking of? i'm still string to figure out what i need, perhaps the audionirvana i played with initialy where 96db in sensitivity but i found them acceptable with the t-amps eq by 6db above 250hz. this means 90db just like the alpair10 i'm waiting to make the BVR... and far field this should be some 12db down, so maybe i was listening at 'just' 78db?? how much do you call your normal listening level?
ra7, you say thumping bass, i thought that little watt would result in poor bass, but then this is really good to know
sorry for taling this a bit of topic:
if the 2.5w/ch from the miniwatt are used to drive the high section (>300hz) of a biamped OB system, would it be easier to for the amp to give headroom and dynamics to the driver? what sensitivity would be need then to achieve realistic, lively spl levels from the miniwatt? unfortunately the two things i'm in love these days - the miniwatt and the little enabled ff85k - seems to be rather uncompatible due to sensitivity...
sorry for taling this a bit of topic:
if the 2.5w/ch from the miniwatt are used to drive the high section (>300hz) of a biamped OB system, would it be easier to for the amp to give headroom and dynamics to the driver? what sensitivity would be need then to achieve realistic, lively spl levels from the miniwatt? unfortunately the two things i'm in love these days - the miniwatt and the little enabled ff85k - seems to be rather uncompatible due to sensitivity...
In my smallest room (approx 200 sq ft), listening position approx 3 metres measured with the cheapie Radio Shack digital SPL meter, C weighted scale - on average less than 80dB, peaks maybe 90.
In the bigger TV room (approx 340 sq ft), listening position maybe 4 metres, SPLs are generally about the same on most TV broadcasts (i.e. upper 70's to mid 80s), and at most around mid 90s on HD music concerts or movies.
in practical terms, that's one of the advantages of this method
Well, the question of "realistic" SPL levels is a whole 'nother Pandora's box - don't expect a consensus there, but at least 10dB higher than the FF85K would be my guess.
Even more so with the described components, the size and acoustics of the room and your listening position will play a huge factor. For example, the FF85K and 3 watts can be quite adequate for upgraded computer /lap-top stereo (i.e. really near field), but will run out of steam if not self destruct attempting dance party levels in a 600 sq ft hall.
is there any particular reason no manufacturer is making a small widerange designed for OB, covering only from lower-mids to high, something like the little fostex, but with much higher sensitivity since it does not have to make bass? would it be possible?
...ok i'll stop asking for the details, thank you very much, you people on this forum really rock. now it's time for me to get making something that works 🙂 altought errors are very funny way of spending time in this world.
...ok i'll stop asking for the details, thank you very much, you people on this forum really rock. now it's time for me to get making something that works 🙂 altought errors are very funny way of spending time in this world.
Hi guys, I'm no a related search for a new amplifier and I was wondering if I could get some feedback.
Right now I have a SonicImpact Gen2 amp that powers my frugelhorns quite well...except it also does a decent job with my uFonkens and since the wife likes the look of it, the SI is going into our bedroom. That leaves me with only a Kenwood Receiver to power my frugels. It is rated for 100w but if I turn the knob past 9:00 things just get ugly and grainy.
So I'm looking for something specifically for my frugels and any other FR speakers I will build in the future. I thought about the Kingrex T20U since I occasionally listen to stuff on my computer. I also thought about building a tube amp like the K-12G, but I'd only be comfortable with something that came in a kit with instructions to follow. Then I saw people talking about the Miniwatt. Right now, I'm leaning toward the Miniwatt. Before I bite the bullet and order one, is there anything else I should be considering?
Right now I have a SonicImpact Gen2 amp that powers my frugelhorns quite well...except it also does a decent job with my uFonkens and since the wife likes the look of it, the SI is going into our bedroom. That leaves me with only a Kenwood Receiver to power my frugels. It is rated for 100w but if I turn the knob past 9:00 things just get ugly and grainy.
So I'm looking for something specifically for my frugels and any other FR speakers I will build in the future. I thought about the Kingrex T20U since I occasionally listen to stuff on my computer. I also thought about building a tube amp like the K-12G, but I'd only be comfortable with something that came in a kit with instructions to follow. Then I saw people talking about the Miniwatt. Right now, I'm leaning toward the Miniwatt. Before I bite the bullet and order one, is there anything else I should be considering?
Seems like I'm a sales person for the miniwatt. I am not. But this is a serious piece of gear that anyone with >90db senstivity speakers should be considering.
With my t-amp and the full range drivers, there was a shrill quality to the sound. Plus the bass was thin and lacking in power. The Miniwatt completely changed this. Its not the watts of course, its the impedance matching. In my room which is 20' x 20', the miniwatt can drive the AN 8s to deafening levels.
With my t-amp and the full range drivers, there was a shrill quality to the sound. Plus the bass was thin and lacking in power. The Miniwatt completely changed this. Its not the watts of course, its the impedance matching. In my room which is 20' x 20', the miniwatt can drive the AN 8s to deafening levels.
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if you are interested, you could try putting a resistor in series with your T-amp - i.e. amplifier output to resistor to speaker. This lowers the damping factor, gets you closer to the right impedance matching. The resistor will suck power, so use a power resistor and don't expect loud volumes.
I tried doing that. It moves the knee of the rolloff further below. But it affects the entire sonic range of the speaker. I found the sound is labored and all the 'fun' is gone that comes from the full-range-ness, if you will, of the speaker.
I also tried several notch filters and equalization networks, as suggested my Mr. Pass and several others here. Even though you end up with a flat response, the fun is completely gone from the sound. Maybe I was using inferior components. I don't know. But I certainly tried it and found that I like them better with nothing between them and the t-amp. And even better with them hooked up to the miniwatt! 😉
I also tried several notch filters and equalization networks, as suggested my Mr. Pass and several others here. Even though you end up with a flat response, the fun is completely gone from the sound. Maybe I was using inferior components. I don't know. But I certainly tried it and found that I like them better with nothing between them and the t-amp. And even better with them hooked up to the miniwatt! 😉
A small amount of resistance might give you more bottom,
but the first thing you try when the upper mid /top end is
aggressive is to get off axis about 15 degrees or so. This
usually means not toe-ing in the speakers, but aligning them
straight out with you in the middle.
😎
but the first thing you try when the upper mid /top end is
aggressive is to get off axis about 15 degrees or so. This
usually means not toe-ing in the speakers, but aligning them
straight out with you in the middle.
😎
ra7, i tried computer equalization and hardware equalization (with an not so old technics eq) on the super 8" and everytime the life went out of the sound.
when not toed-in the image and airness was suffering a lot. (also toeing them so that they point some where in front of you gives interesting results)
someone suggested the the AN needs to be supporte up to 500-1000hz... but then i don't know how it can be achieved except that by supporting woofers...
as Mr.Pass pointed out somewhere else (if i don't go wrong) the AN shows dramatic peak at 15khz. i also found the region around 4khz to be bloody dangerous, so maybe there is a chance to tame just the two of them, but not so much that the response goes flat, i think these two regions have some role in the life of presentation and the strenght of the attacks, so maybe they should be shelved but not that much, expecially the 15k one
btw. Mr.Pass have your experiments with openbaffles already been published? i don't have the AN drivers any more but i really would like to learn about them
when not toed-in the image and airness was suffering a lot. (also toeing them so that they point some where in front of you gives interesting results)
someone suggested the the AN needs to be supporte up to 500-1000hz... but then i don't know how it can be achieved except that by supporting woofers...
as Mr.Pass pointed out somewhere else (if i don't go wrong) the AN shows dramatic peak at 15khz. i also found the region around 4khz to be bloody dangerous, so maybe there is a chance to tame just the two of them, but not so much that the response goes flat, i think these two regions have some role in the life of presentation and the strenght of the attacks, so maybe they should be shelved but not that much, expecially the 15k one
btw. Mr.Pass have your experiments with openbaffles already been published? i don't have the AN drivers any more but i really would like to learn about them
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I agree with you on the life being sucked out of them when a filter is added. Also, like you said, taking them off axis compromises the performance.
It's like they have their faults and you pick which evil you can live with.
Mr. Pass, we can't wait for the OB article. Should I pre-order some Eminence woofers before they all run out? 🙂
It's like they have their faults and you pick which evil you can live with.
Mr. Pass, we can't wait for the OB article. Should I pre-order some Eminence woofers before they all run out? 🙂
I have not published BOB yet, but here's a taste of the AN8s.
I wouldn't worry about the 15 KHz peak, but there is a
bit of upper midrange energy that you may be hearing.
😎
so cool to see this! I'm glad that you find these good enough to at least include in your study. So many on these forums simply refuse to accept that these are worthy speakers.
Is this the response on the open baffle?
Is this the response on the open baffle?
I can't compare the K-12G to any other of the amps you're considering, but I can tell you that it's really easy to assemble. I think it only took me an hour total. The instructions are very detailed, although it's pretty self explanatory for the most part. If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably go with the Miniwatt on account of the nice case. Before I bought the K-12g I was worried that something like the Miniwatt wouldn't give me enough wpc. But the K-12G is loud enough even when it's connected to a pair of 87 db/w speakers, so I think 2.5 wpc should be more than enough when attached to efficient speakers.
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I put a scope on my amplifier output recently to see how the voltage correlated with 'acceptable sound levels'. I have PMC floor-standers, which put out a prodigious sound. They are around 90dB sensitive. In my main living room (the kids weren't around) it was quite normal to be listening gently with a peak to peak amplitude of only 1V. That's into a nominal 8 Ohms. That's quite a bit less than 1W...and even if I listen 'enthusiastically' I don't need much more.
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