Re: Re: Phase 2 - Update
Remember we aren't using a box
it would be if we were using a box. That low qts driver would require lot's of eq and would loose it's power handling and low bass sensitivity because of it.
Nice horn driver though!
reins said:
Remember we aren't using a box
it would be if we were using a box. That low qts driver would require lot's of eq and would loose it's power handling and low bass sensitivity because of it.
Nice horn driver though!
Lynn Olson said:
The drivers need that extra resonance or break up in the top to get past 2K in a horn (or a lot bigger motor) The phase plug helps. The net upper range sound with the ripple or peak is not like a direct radiator in sound, it is much less subdued due to the horn loading. A notch or filter would be OK but not really necessary, it may kill the top end of the mid/horn system. With the ripple it is still more pleasant sounding in that area then a good horn loaded compression driver. We must compromise (even if it's a little) if we want this kind of sensitivity.
First order 3K should be great! One amp for the mid up, that's where I was going with this - SET or good PP
The 18 sound may be better- depends on what the phase plugs actually doing.
Brett said:
The mid horn is actualy 360 flare 'Sierra Brooks' tractrix - a 300 hz horn would be ideal
winslow said:
Yep, if round mid horns get too long they honk and beam. we can call it a wave guide, it's probably a better description of it. There is enough there to load the driver but not too much to turn the sound bad.
I was just looking at my 380 hertz Stereo Lab round tractrix horns which have a 1" throat...then imagining shortening them up for a 6" driver...
The 300 hertz rectangular tractrix on my Edgar Slimlines isn't too deep eiother...
Mike, sounds like you are making a project right up my alley.
Just need to find good bass drivers.
The 300 hertz rectangular tractrix on my Edgar Slimlines isn't too deep eiother...
Mike, sounds like you are making a project right up my alley.
Just need to find good bass drivers.
Hello,
What do you think about a larger cone in a horn/waveguide? Something like 8". This would allow a lower high-pass and maybe a better sensitivity. In fact it's not even something new... lot's use their lowthers in front loaded horns, only that they do it fullrange, and using a whizzer.
What do you think about a larger cone in a horn/waveguide? Something like 8". This would allow a lower high-pass and maybe a better sensitivity. In fact it's not even something new... lot's use their lowthers in front loaded horns, only that they do it fullrange, and using a whizzer.
SunRa said:
Actually I'm going the other way with it -- An ultra low mass 3 gram four inch cone JBL 2105, I have a newer pair here but they are the weaker ferrite magnet model, it is an excellent mid horn driver but runs out of steam early - the older alnico model (LE5-2) has a stronger magnet. The stronger magnet should do the trick (it's also 5 db more efficient) at around 106 db/w/m when horn loadedfrom a 3 gram mass paper cone. 😉
JBL ALNICO 2105
I have a round tractrix horn that is 180 cycle flare that is 26" diameter at the mouth. It works very well with the incredible JBL 2123 10" driver (never run out of steam with this combo!) but is only good to around 800 cycles due to it's size- IOW it beams too much beyond that........ In a multi way horn system that's OK, I use a large format compression driver and horn tweeter above it and a bass horn and sub horn below it - Horns are high efficiency, low distortion, bandwith limited (bandpass) devices, the smaller horn I'm using here is about as wide of bandwith you can get out of one with NO horn colorations.......!
The 'lowthers' aren't horn loaded through there full range, that's why every time I hear a pair in a front horn (like the one I have above) I cringe and run for the door! They sound bad, shouty, distressed, confused and irritating... I'd rather listen to a good compression driver - The best way to use a lowther is cut off the whizzer and use it in back horn with a real tweeter, then don't expect it to sound real - it will still have IM distortion out the butt..
The driver I'm currently using may be better than the JBL - time will tell - I have a pair on the way - the smaller driver (with the strong alnico magnet) should be more detailed and will go a full octave higher in the same horn. I'll probably need to crossover at 400 rather than 350 with the B&C 6", but I think I'll like the tone will be better with the JBL. The five tens are excellent in the low mid! If the alnico 2105 t goes to 6K like the lesser magnet version and doesn't run out of steam - that's probably what I'll use.
Nice horns... I was looking at the veravox drivers yesterday but the little ones looked to have a rather small sensitivity.
Just to see if I'm right. The 2105 alnico is rated 86dB at 1W, 10 feet. Asuming the spl is down 3dB at 1 meter (or is it 6, I can't remember), the translation for the 2105 would be... 92dB/1W/1M if calculated with 3dB down per meter and 98dB/1W/1M at 6dB per meter?
SunRa said:
Here is how they perform in a horn - very high efficiency -
Edgar Horn Midrange Article
They made about 15 different LE5 or 2105 drivers - the one to get is the Alnico LE5-2 or the original alnico magnet 2105
Hi
Magnetar I am very interested in this.
Have any measurements or sources you can point to for that theory that break up is diminished by horns ? Or is it just because the horn has falling FR by itself for those frequencies ?
Greetings
Michael
Magnetar said:
Magnetar I am very interested in this.
Have any measurements or sources you can point to for that theory that break up is diminished by horns ? Or is it just because the horn has falling FR by itself for those frequencies ?
Greetings
Michael
mige0 said:
"Lower distortion at a given SPL: For an equivalent SPL, horns require a smaller diaphragm, and since distortion is directly proportional to the size of the diaphragm, a large diaphragm electromechanical transducer (conventional driver) has to move much more than a horned diaphragm in order to create the same SPL (sound pressure level). The larger the excursion, the worse the distortion. So, for a given SPL, a horn loaded system will generate much lower distortion than an electromechanical transducer.
Faster transient response: Since the diaphragm is smaller, it is lighter and thus it accelerates and decelerates faster. This, in the real world means superb, fast snappy transients. As the excursion of the diaphragm is very small as compared to an electromechanical transducer, the voice coil is much smaller and again, this translates to a lower moving mass and again, results in fast transients.
Higher SPL's with a given input wattage: Small voice coils also take full advantage of the flux in the pole piece gap. This increases the efficiency of the transducer allowing the amplifier to work with greater ease. Since the amplifier has more headroom and the driver handles peaks and high outputs more efficiently, horns are able to produce much higher SPL's before they distort.
Thus, in the normal operating range, horn designs are faster, more dynamic, have a better transient response, have less distortion, and are easier for an amplifier to drive than conventional driver designs."
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"Let us compare this to a direct radiator. Here are measurements done by Klipsch on a midrange horn and an 8in driver. F1 is 540Hz @ 100dB SPL @ 2ft, F2 is 4400Hz @ 92dB SPL @ 2ft. 10DB/div.
The upper spectrogram is the horn. IMD is about 1% (includes driver distortion). The lower shows the spectrum of the DR, with about 10% IMD. "
The upper spectrogram is the horn. IMD is about 1% (includes driver distortion). The lower shows the spectrum of the DR, with about 10% IMD. "
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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