Marantz ST7001 tuner vs ST6000
I am in the market for a replacement FM tuner, I ended up looking at Marantz ST7001 and Marantz ST6000 due to performance, feature, availability and cost at the moment. There is only one classical music FM station in the Chicago area that I listen to regularly with good signal strength at my home. I budget up to $70 for this purpose. Both Marantz have remote, timer and selectable IF bandwidth. I know that good vintage tuner is not hard to come by, these Marantz just happen to be available at good price at this moment.
I am leaning toward the ST7001 for 3 reasons:
Are there anything that I overlook in the comparison? Your input is much appreciated.
(Yes, if budget is not a consideration, I would like the Denon TU-800 or Marantz ST-17 better.) I currently use a Kenwood Basic T-1. It develops some drifting problem which I suspect a complete recap would fix. But the remote and timer function of the newer model Marantz have some appeal to me. The Marantz tuner are also heavy in construction.
I am in the market for a replacement FM tuner, I ended up looking at Marantz ST7001 and Marantz ST6000 due to performance, feature, availability and cost at the moment. There is only one classical music FM station in the Chicago area that I listen to regularly with good signal strength at my home. I budget up to $70 for this purpose. Both Marantz have remote, timer and selectable IF bandwidth. I know that good vintage tuner is not hard to come by, these Marantz just happen to be available at good price at this moment.
I am leaning toward the ST7001 for 3 reasons:
- FM performance are similar, same selectivity. ST7001 sensitivity is 1.1 uV vs. 1.2 for ST6000.
- ST7001 uses NJM2068 as audio buffer which is lower noise and much faster than the Fairchild KA4558S audio op-amp in the ST6000.
- As a bonus, the US model of ST7001 is XM ready. But I may never use it due to XM high subscription rate.
Are there anything that I overlook in the comparison? Your input is much appreciated.
(Yes, if budget is not a consideration, I would like the Denon TU-800 or Marantz ST-17 better.) I currently use a Kenwood Basic T-1. It develops some drifting problem which I suspect a complete recap would fix. But the remote and timer function of the newer model Marantz have some appeal to me. The Marantz tuner are also heavy in construction.
You may be right. I have no clue on how to start trouble shooting for the Kenwood Basic T-1.
Which classical FM station is this and does it have IBOC?
Majority of FM stations in the US has IBOC and this affects analog FM stereo reception on tuners not equip to handle it regardless on how good its noise spec is. S/N can drop to as low as 50dB depending on the number of hybrid digital channels an IBOC enabled FM station carries.
Picking an FM tuner based on the output opamp is not a definitive way. None high end FM stereo tuners have typical THD over 0.2% and S/N that is lower than 68dB. Even if you replace the opamp with a higher spec and faster one, it doesn't improve these basic audio parameters.
Majority of FM stations in the US has IBOC and this affects analog FM stereo reception on tuners not equip to handle it regardless on how good its noise spec is. S/N can drop to as low as 50dB depending on the number of hybrid digital channels an IBOC enabled FM station carries.
Picking an FM tuner based on the output opamp is not a definitive way. None high end FM stereo tuners have typical THD over 0.2% and S/N that is lower than 68dB. Even if you replace the opamp with a higher spec and faster one, it doesn't improve these basic audio parameters.
The station is WFMT, 98.7 FM, Chicago. It is hard to find station in US that does not use IBOC which should not be a problem with normal tuner.
If budget allows, I will buy the Marantz ST-17 which has the HDAM discrete output stage. Unfortunately, most modern tuner use opamp IC. The 4558 in the ST6000 is not an acceptable opamp, but the NJM2068 in the ST7001 is. It is an important consideration to me, not a nice to consider issue. (I would probably replace the 4558 with a LME49720 if I got the ST6000.)
The SNR spec of ST7001 do seem high for a premium line tuner. But their way of spec is interesting too. I just choose to trust Marantz.
Marantz US | ST7001
Marantz_US said:
I am waiting for delivery of the ST7001. Any necessary suggestion on tweak or mod is greatly appreciated. I will find out if I made the right choice soon.
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That is your opinion. IBOC is a very BIG problem for a lot of FM stereo tuners even newer ones.
Your ST7001 has a tiny metal box module for the FM section that is not even shown in the schematic, do you really think it has better audio than the ST6000 with a full blown FM stereo section utilizing G.D.T ceramic IF filters, double-tuned quadrature detector and an LA3401 MPX IC?
Just give a listen with your Basic T1, switch between mono and stereo and carefully listen to the constant background noise off 98.7, that is the IBOC self-noise.
It is nice to have HD radio. I cannot find one for less than 3-4 times of what I paid for the Marantz ST7001. I decided that I do not listen to radio enough to justify spending that much.
I heard that the Sony XDR-F1HD HD Radio Tuner is really nice. Enjoy listening.
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Magnum Dynalab was the best FM tuner I've owned but new one's are not sensibly priced. What I have today is an old Sansui receiver from the e-waste. I did modify it. But the sound quality is very good but it's not one of their best. I'd not hesitate to recommend you get yourself a vintage Sansui FM tuner to play with, I think they have great potential.
On a good day, the Kenwood Basic T-1 background is dead quiet. I had a Denon TU-1500RDS until a month ago. (I sold it to free up fund for other audio project.) I did not hear any digital noise from WFMT signal either. The TU-1500RDS reception is rock stable. I have had the T-1 for over 30 years. It is not a surprise that it has problem.
That is called progress in the digital age. The small highly integrated tuner module in ST7001 should perform the same function as well as, if not better than the mostly discrete (or full blown) FM section of the ST6000. The Marantz FM specification of the 2 unit said that, but they are close. If you believe older technology, discrete component tuner section is better, you are entitled to your opinion.
I already picked the ST7001. If you know any worthwhile improvement, say it. If not, don't knock it for argument's sack. This is the DIY forum.
I shopped Magnum Dynalab too, but they are too expensive. Many Japanese brand made good FM tuner. The Denon is my favorite.
The 2 Marantz are newer (early 2000) design with microprocessor chip inside. I like the extra features and hope they would last longer.
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Sorry to miss the expert. When bidding on ebay, there is a time limit and competition consideration. I jumped when I have to.
Can you enlighten me on what convince you that the mostly discrete FM section of the ST6000 perform the same function better than the small highly integrated tuner module in ST7001? Yes, Marantz did not show what is inside the tuner module, but it should not make it bad.
What convinced you that the Fairchild KA4558S audio op-amp can perform adequately? It is a very slow (low slew rate) and narrow band opamp.
I am a mechanical engineer in trade (retired). I know something about audio amplification and digital technology. I am asking a TIC contributor for FM information.
The 4558 is a dual 741 opamp and not acceptable for audio application. I will not change my opinion on that.
The ST6000 and ST7001 have almost identical FM specification. The ST7001 circuit was used in Marantz ST-15S1 Tuner of their premium line (whatever that means). I am very interested in understanding why you prefer the ST6000 so much over the ST7001.
Tuner st7001 vs st-15s1 | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
(The above thread is on the UK model, not the US model of ST7001. The FM section are supposed to be the same.)
When everything else are equal, the audio section became the discriminator. What did I miss in your FM assessment?
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That's why I ask you for help. However, I do not see picking a used FM tuner as brain surgery. It is not causing anyone to die.
My doctoral degree is in engineering. I do not have any medical degree. I can talk technology, but not surgery. Please, be specific about what technical error I made in my comment and not to use one line personal attack.
Can you tell me how you compare the FM section of the ST-6000 vs. the ST7001? I am waiting for your answer. If the ST7001 turns out to be a poor choice, I can just sell it again on ebay and buy something better.
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I don't want to get into the fight about over-the-air reception.
*My* inclination: WFMT has internet streaming. 128-speed MP3 (also AAC) is not the world's best audio, but very listenable (especially when the studio knows their stuff as WFMT does).
$39 Android phone from TracFone. (You don't have to have a Plan to get a last-year or refurb Android of ample spec.) The phone I use as a phone is still offered: LG REBEL™ 3 LTE® (L158VL) $29.99 (less "with plan"). I also have a bigger LG which has never been "provisioned" as a cellphone, I just use it for pictures.
Open Browser, open http://stream.wfmt.com/main
No static at all (even the kid with the bad spark motorcycle). No antenna. Do need WiFi.
*My* inclination: WFMT has internet streaming. 128-speed MP3 (also AAC) is not the world's best audio, but very listenable (especially when the studio knows their stuff as WFMT does).
$39 Android phone from TracFone. (You don't have to have a Plan to get a last-year or refurb Android of ample spec.) The phone I use as a phone is still offered: LG REBEL™ 3 LTE® (L158VL) $29.99 (less "with plan"). I also have a bigger LG which has never been "provisioned" as a cellphone, I just use it for pictures.
Open Browser, open http://stream.wfmt.com/main
No static at all (even the kid with the bad spark motorcycle). No antenna. Do need WiFi.
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I was puzzled by this ej25awd comment until I found out that Canada used to have the L-band DAB digital broadcast, but some station got permit to start switching to HD Radio (IBOC) about 10 years ago. Most of the DAB had been switched off, but there may still be some pocket of resistance of the change in technology in Canada, thus, the misinformation. (By comparison, US already had 1700 station with HD sub channels 10 years ago.)
I never heard of this problem until today and never heard any digital noise from my tuner caused by the HD channels of WFMT.
WFMT is the premium FM classical broadcaster in the US. If anybody doesn't have a problem, it should be them.
I've upgraded a 70's FM radio to make it sharp & sensitive again, just by replacing the e-caps. No alignment. No measurement. Haven't done a stereo one though. Sansui's weren't high end ever, but I wouldn't give up on that one yet if it used to perform okay.
I've had a couple of super sensitive pocket FM radios based on the crystal technology from the 90's. The one I'm listening to now through my mixer & 120 w amp is in a Luxor tape player I fished out of a trash can at work, and bypassed the worn out volume pot with a fixed resistor.
I bought a sony Walkman FM radio new in 2007, it is garbage. **** sensitivity. So maybe they have a point about the new circuits being worse. Digital frequency synthesis may be the emporer's new clothes. Nice in theory, garbage in performance. People aren't striving for excellent FM reception now, see PRR's comment. I'd rather not be nailed down listening to music to the computer room, where the PC howls into my RIAA circuits on a good day. Yeah, PC's are FCC compliant. Doesn't mean PC's are magnetic cartridge compatible. Or any other digital device. The good speakers are in the ANALOG room where no computers live. I can't even see the screen on a smart phone without reading glasses, and that would be the ONLY reason I needed them. I read books fine without. So I have a stupid phone that I don't have to look at.
I wouldn't worry about exceeding 55 db s/n either. WFMT plays a lot of George Szell and Fritz Rheiner, and those recordings were made a 55 db s/n or lower.
I've upgraded a 70's FM radio to make it sharp & sensitive again, just by replacing the e-caps. No alignment. No measurement. Haven't done a stereo one though. Sansui's weren't high end ever, but I wouldn't give up on that one yet if it used to perform okay.
I've had a couple of super sensitive pocket FM radios based on the crystal technology from the 90's. The one I'm listening to now through my mixer & 120 w amp is in a Luxor tape player I fished out of a trash can at work, and bypassed the worn out volume pot with a fixed resistor.
I bought a sony Walkman FM radio new in 2007, it is garbage. **** sensitivity. So maybe they have a point about the new circuits being worse. Digital frequency synthesis may be the emporer's new clothes. Nice in theory, garbage in performance. People aren't striving for excellent FM reception now, see PRR's comment. I'd rather not be nailed down listening to music to the computer room, where the PC howls into my RIAA circuits on a good day. Yeah, PC's are FCC compliant. Doesn't mean PC's are magnetic cartridge compatible. Or any other digital device. The good speakers are in the ANALOG room where no computers live. I can't even see the screen on a smart phone without reading glasses, and that would be the ONLY reason I needed them. I read books fine without. So I have a stupid phone that I don't have to look at.
I wouldn't worry about exceeding 55 db s/n either. WFMT plays a lot of George Szell and Fritz Rheiner, and those recordings were made a 55 db s/n or lower.
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