Thank you, francolargo and planet10!
I will apply ring patterns on one of my MAOP-7 and see if it makes a difference. I will treat back side of the cone and coil former. I want to use black nail polish so it can be removed, just in case.
I will apply ring patterns on one of my MAOP-7 and see if it makes a difference. I will treat back side of the cone and coil former. I want to use black nail polish so it can be removed, just in case.
Other I guess. FR, impulse, etc. I want to see if it's worth it for me to even try it. Many people say it's the greatest thing since canned beer, but I'd like something other than an opinion before I get to work. It may be better for me to buy new drivers rather than spend hours making dots. With data it may be better to buy new drivers and make dots.
I'm sure my enthusiasm comes through and I'm glad you are willing to try. Even though I personally risked great midranges for learning, at that time it was easy and not too expensive to have them reconed with original JBL parts. The was my backup plan. Suggestion: It wouldn't be a bad idea to first do a pair of less high-strung drivers for an instructive before/after comparison. Also, I would never try nail polish on an excellent driver! It's formulated to flow out smoothly and might not apply well nor keep its somewhat proud edge level vs. the cone surface. Finally, the notion that you can remove it (using acetone, presumably?) is another big question mark. Acetone is an extremely powerful multipurpose solvent! How would that very hard to control solvent affect the substrate layer under the fancy oxide outer cone surface? I'd suggest the MAOP cones are a Yoda-type project. "Do or do not, there is no TRY". My Alpair's have "Utrecht fluid acrylics" for the spots. It's nice to work with on a Speedball type A artist's nib, reloaded after every dot. ...and DO ask questions!
Frank
yeah, its a leap of faith because what you can see in a waterfall plot is tiny compared to what the ears tell you. I'd suggest about the same as I did above for @sse2. Do a pair of some more basic full range drivers (like maybe the CHN-70 or CHP 70?). Break them in and listen in any old open baffle, then tap, decorate, tap, listen to music, repeat. 🙂
Cheers!
Frank
Isuggest practicing on some drivers that are throw away untilyou get good enuff to tackle the MAOP.
dave
Yeah acetone is a pretty powerful plastic solvent, so if the cone has some of that in it, it's a no bueno situation.
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MAOP is metal oxide (alumina) over metal. This material is totally inert to any organic solvent, so actually it is ideal surface for trial and error. I ordered extra fine tip acrylic paint pens. Dried acrylic can be removed with paint stripper.
I have some experience applying EnABL to 12" paper cones. Little MAOP will be more challenging, will see.
I have some experience applying EnABL to 12" paper cones. Little MAOP will be more challenging, will see.
The problem that I envision is that MAOP-7 as-is, after break-in, sound ideal to me, especially in micro detail. They sound like high quality headphones. My imagination fails as to what potential improvements could be.
When you close your eyes, are you not sure where the speakers are placed? Do you sometimes hear sounds that seem to originate from somewhere outside the triangle between you and the speakers? When you crank up the system, does it get bigger, not louder? With good live recordings: When there is applause at the end of a piece, are the louder clappers differently and clearly located in the soundstage? When you listen to a vocal chorus, can you still hear a few individual voices in the mix? Are solo woodwinds clear and pleasant-sounding? Do multimillion dollar classic stringed instruments sound better and larger than run-of-the mill? On challenging recordings of something big like Beethoven's ninth symphony, or Pink Floyd's amazing live concert, does it seem like you're pretty close to the performance? Do approximately half of popular recordings sound like they were engineered by chimpanzees?
If you reliably answer yes to questions like these, you're in pretty good shape! 🙂 If these questions raise doubt, you'd want both speakers treated, not just one. Soundstage is that sensitive. Also, be sensitive to possible midrange room modes - not the drivers' fault even though we often have to live with them...
Again, I've never had ring patterns hurt a driver's performance. They have only helped to some degree.
Enjoy the ride!
Frank
I thought of one more area where I've found that EnABL improves system performance. Digital fatigue. I have a number of tracks in 44/16 format and also in their 'master' format (higher bit depth plus higher frequency). While the master versions are always preferable with my DAC, after the drivers are successfully treated, the difference in overall "realism" is noticeably diminished between music file formats. Redbook file sound improves more than the master versions. YMMV! (I'll be upgrading my ESS Pro DAC chip and it's two re-clock crystal oscillators plus power stability in due course.)
So far what I hear with my MAOP-7:
Forget fatigue, the sound is addictive. The more I listen, the more I want to hear more. Volume control was very confusing before I got used to how it works with these speakers. The first impression was that something was wrong with my amplifier. The stereo has subjective width far outside the triangle in direction and depth; some sounds can be perceived as coming from behind. Space can be perceived in mono, with only one speaker. Huge difference between CD and SACD. The most difficult to reproduce material, such as massed strings, chorus, and full organ comes out undistorted and effortless, without sound homogenization typical for most speakers. Applause test, the first 1 minute track on Carlos Kleiber Beethoven 7th SACD - I hear distinct claps coming from different directions and distances.
These drivers are simply amazing
.
Forget fatigue, the sound is addictive. The more I listen, the more I want to hear more. Volume control was very confusing before I got used to how it works with these speakers. The first impression was that something was wrong with my amplifier. The stereo has subjective width far outside the triangle in direction and depth; some sounds can be perceived as coming from behind. Space can be perceived in mono, with only one speaker. Huge difference between CD and SACD. The most difficult to reproduce material, such as massed strings, chorus, and full organ comes out undistorted and effortless, without sound homogenization typical for most speakers. Applause test, the first 1 minute track on Carlos Kleiber Beethoven 7th SACD - I hear distinct claps coming from different directions and distances.
These drivers are simply amazing
.
Dude! Leave them alone!
Re: CD vs. SACD, there's so much variation in music production (not to mention our systems' configurations) that you have to compare different formats of an identical track. Within that limited sample, I just find that the CD format benefits even more than the better formats. That's not saying the two become nearly equal. The master digital format is always better. Still, how nice for enjoying all of the CD material!
Enjoy the music!
Frank
Re: CD vs. SACD, there's so much variation in music production (not to mention our systems' configurations) that you have to compare different formats of an identical track. Within that limited sample, I just find that the CD format benefits even more than the better formats. That's not saying the two become nearly equal. The master digital format is always better. Still, how nice for enjoying all of the CD material!
Enjoy the music!
Frank
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Most SACDs are hybrid, that is they have 16/48 (CD) layer, stereo DSD layer, and 5.1 multichannel layer. On my SACD player I cannot select 16/48 vs. DSD, the player will play DSD by default if it detects it, so I need to use a different player for 16/48. So, CD - SACD is indeed not an "everything else equal" comparison.
what Mark audio driver will you use for a 2 way active speaker with a 15inch Tad to do the Bass and the MA driver crossing at 200HZ to the top . and what closed volume would be needed ?
thanks
thanks
You didn't mention the specific bass driver. The TAD website lists the efficiency of its current line of woofers to be in the range of 96-97 dB. I don't very well know the entire MarkAudio line, but I believe all are in the neighborhood of (up to) 88 dB efficiency. That mismatch is the first problem I would address. If, for the sake of efficiency, you chose to use two or three MA drivers per side, then you'll be starting from first principles of enclosure design. And that's an interesting problem that is outside of the topic in this thread. I think its fair to summarize the above posts as: "The MAOP series from MarkAudio are superlative." They would play very well as high as you like without introducing crossover phase issues with a tweeter.
Frank
Frank
the mismatch in efficiency will not be a problem i will be bi-amping the speakers and use an active crossover..
so the MAOP 7 or MAOP 10 ? what closed volume would i need for 200hz
so the MAOP 7 or MAOP 10 ? what closed volume would i need for 200hz
XOing that low, probably A7ms, P7HD, MAOP 7. Enclsoure around about 5 litres.
Something larger if you really want toplay loud.
dave