It starts to take shape:
Here, waiting for a second layer of oil. I couldn't resist to put the speakers (unscrewed), just to see how they look like.
To come soon, cabling and testing several crossovers!!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Here, waiting for a second layer of oil. I couldn't resist to put the speakers (unscrewed), just to see how they look like.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
To come soon, cabling and testing several crossovers!!
Hi there.
The speakers are done (the boxes just need another oil layer but it will be done later), they sing everyday now and I'm really happy the way they sound.
I started with the initial crossover by Seas but it didn't make it to the 27TBFC/G, although it was at first already quite convincing. After trial and errors I converged towards a 4.7uF cap and 9.5 Ohm resistor in series with the tweeter. the woofer is let unfiltered. The tweeter really merges perfectly with the woofer using this crossover.
The speakers do sound very natural and without causing any hearing fatigue. One can hear distinctly the double bass but it is never too invading. The voices are sensual, especially women voices. I thought they would be a bit in the background owing the dip in the woofer frequency response around 400Hz, but actually they aren't laid back. They are well focused.
I can't make any measurement as I do not own any measurement instrument.
But the overall frequency response seems quite regular to my hears, really well balanced between highs, mids and lows.
Minute details, such as reverbs, extinctions and so on are easily reproduced but never in a too analytical way. Music just benefits from this high level of detail.
Put simply: I do not listen to the speakers anymore but to music.
The only drawback if I have to give one would be a short lack of 3D sound reproduction, but it is not what I was looking after anyways and if not perfect it is good enough for me.
At 500$/pair, I think one can hardly get better than these speakers!
The speakers are done (the boxes just need another oil layer but it will be done later), they sing everyday now and I'm really happy the way they sound.
I started with the initial crossover by Seas but it didn't make it to the 27TBFC/G, although it was at first already quite convincing. After trial and errors I converged towards a 4.7uF cap and 9.5 Ohm resistor in series with the tweeter. the woofer is let unfiltered. The tweeter really merges perfectly with the woofer using this crossover.
The speakers do sound very natural and without causing any hearing fatigue. One can hear distinctly the double bass but it is never too invading. The voices are sensual, especially women voices. I thought they would be a bit in the background owing the dip in the woofer frequency response around 400Hz, but actually they aren't laid back. They are well focused.
I can't make any measurement as I do not own any measurement instrument.
But the overall frequency response seems quite regular to my hears, really well balanced between highs, mids and lows.
Minute details, such as reverbs, extinctions and so on are easily reproduced but never in a too analytical way. Music just benefits from this high level of detail.
Put simply: I do not listen to the speakers anymore but to music.
The only drawback if I have to give one would be a short lack of 3D sound reproduction, but it is not what I was looking after anyways and if not perfect it is good enough for me.
At 500$/pair, I think one can hardly get better than these speakers!
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The T35C002 interested me but the cheaper SEAS tweeters work very well and can often be tweeked. As I cannot see the value in the T35C002 at about $220 each But you can buy a pair 27TDFC or 27TBFCG for around $60 or Dayton DC28 equivalents. As DIY speakers do not hold value so well as well esteemed finished speaker brands, it can be risk spending a lot and not liking the sound.
Pity Ciare stopped making the MT320 that proved a good 32 mm VC tweeter that could match a large woofer at a reasonable price
The high prices of the so called high end drive units is making it difficult to justify them, when very cheap sound systems now sound so good. Neodimium is expensive but not to result in tweeter 5X a ferrite equivalent
Pity Ciare stopped making the MT320 that proved a good 32 mm VC tweeter that could match a large woofer at a reasonable price
The high prices of the so called high end drive units is making it difficult to justify them, when very cheap sound systems now sound so good. Neodimium is expensive but not to result in tweeter 5X a ferrite equivalent
Hi!
VERY nice project, very well made enclosures!
What I don't understand: You have a woofer with a sensitivity of approx. 90dB and a tweeter of around 90/91dB. Why do you need a 9,5R resistor in series with the tweeter?
The tweeter in the original Seas design has a much higher sensitivity than the woofer, that's why such a large resistor is necessary. If I would pair this woofer with, say, a 27TDFC, I think I wouldn't need any resistor at all.
Did you try without one?
Regards!
Martin
VERY nice project, very well made enclosures!
What I don't understand: You have a woofer with a sensitivity of approx. 90dB and a tweeter of around 90/91dB. Why do you need a 9,5R resistor in series with the tweeter?
The tweeter in the original Seas design has a much higher sensitivity than the woofer, that's why such a large resistor is necessary. If I would pair this woofer with, say, a 27TDFC, I think I wouldn't need any resistor at all.
Did you try without one?
Regards!
Martin
The sound quality described fits well with expectation. The 27TDFC is a good alternative if you fabric dome.
This is a personal preference. Zaph and others rate the one you have used. If you are not getting quite the 3D try superes resistor and maybe reduce the value trying say a 6 ohm if this has not been tried already. Do remeber that either tweeter would easily run with 2 woofers De Appolitano
style. For a single woofer you have to back the tweeter off a bit.
Without the resistor I found too much treble.
These drivers are capable of the very best sound quality. I use solid state and triode.
We don't hear more from member EaZy who build these lovely speakers and I think that's a good sign!
It seems the best sounding designs are the ones of which is not much to find in the web, 'cause the owners don't write anymore - they're just sitting in front of their speakers, deeply connected with the heart and soul of the music...
It seems the best sounding designs are the ones of which is not much to find in the web, 'cause the owners don't write anymore - they're just sitting in front of their speakers, deeply connected with the heart and soul of the music...
I know it is an old thread. Hopefully someone is still reading it. I am interesting in building a SEAS A26 as well, but I am slightly confused by the dampening that should be used. In SEAS instructions, it calls for 500g of stuffing without mentioning padding the interior. However, Madisounds kit seems to suggest the padding of interior with foam as well. As for the original A25, I think they the interior is padded but not filled.
Any suggestions?
Any suggestions?
Since it is an aperiodic alignement it requires full stuffing, not required for a bass reflex box internal
I built the madisound A26 kit. I chose the T35 tweeter, mundorf supreme capacitor and the 10 ohm resistor. I'm using an accuphase P-300 amp with C-200 preamp. The A26 sounds great. It has good tight bass and overall is exceptionally clear. The sound is forward and direct meaning it doesn't sound like it's playing through a tube like some speakers. I tried using a vifa d27tg35-06 tweeter as a comparison test to the T35 tweeter. The T-35 tweeter is what makes this speaker so exceptional. The vifa tweeter in comparison was tinny and brassy where the T-35 is exceptionally clear and musical. There is some sound stage but not very large. The speakers sound much larger than their conservative small size. I have owned the original Dynaco A25 in comparison the A26 does everything better and sounds clearer and can handle much more power without fear of burning up the voice coils. The A26 woofer can handle 80 watt constant and 200 watt transient. The A26 give high quality room filling sound in a bookshelf size speaker. If Ihad to choose over again I would buy them again.
The D27 is not a tweeter I would be able to stand, or put into a speaker without spending 4x as much in trying to equalize it. I say it again, Gadzooks! What a horrible response!
If you are going to try out different $30-ish tweeters from Vifa, the Vifa XT25 is a much better tweeter. Very flat and natural, needs to be a few dB below your 100-200 Hz levels though or you'll find it's extension too hard to bear. Otherwise very open and neutral.
I've never heard the Seas T-35, and can't tell from the spec sheet why it's > $200. What I can say is that the XT25 is a really good tweeter with a very flat response and low distortion (at least at 1 watt).
May not be a good match for a Mundorf Supreme though, you'll hear all the candy sprinkles the Supreme's add to the treble and it may sound too exaggerated. That's just supposition.
Best,
Erik
If you are going to try out different $30-ish tweeters from Vifa, the Vifa XT25 is a much better tweeter. Very flat and natural, needs to be a few dB below your 100-200 Hz levels though or you'll find it's extension too hard to bear. Otherwise very open and neutral.
I've never heard the Seas T-35, and can't tell from the spec sheet why it's > $200. What I can say is that the XT25 is a really good tweeter with a very flat response and low distortion (at least at 1 watt).
May not be a good match for a Mundorf Supreme though, you'll hear all the candy sprinkles the Supreme's add to the treble and it may sound too exaggerated. That's just supposition. Best,
Erik
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Has anyone made a 4th order ported for the a26 woof ?
4ft3 tuned to 30hz.
Maybe the standard enclosure has so much stuffing, it really absorbs the back midrange.
I'm thinking the morel cat378 tweeter, but need to pad it down and shrink the 5.6uf recommended cap.
Similar to devote orangutan, but that is a 12db cross I think.
I'd also slide the tweet back for time alignment, and foam to catch tweet edge reflections.
I'm a 6db time alignment fan.
I'm sure the t-35 is nice, but $250 each, ouch.
Norman
4ft3 tuned to 30hz.
Maybe the standard enclosure has so much stuffing, it really absorbs the back midrange.
I'm thinking the morel cat378 tweeter, but need to pad it down and shrink the 5.6uf recommended cap.
Similar to devote orangutan, but that is a 12db cross I think.
I'd also slide the tweet back for time alignment, and foam to catch tweet edge reflections.
I'm a 6db time alignment fan.
I'm sure the t-35 is nice, but $250 each, ouch.
Norman
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Hmmmmm.
I'll take a stab at this one.
I was tempted for something similar only more disastrous, a mttm with 10's. And 4" framed tweets. 6db crossing at 2khz.
Seems people liked the tekton pendragon or enzo with 3 x domes, even with dispersion.
Ideally a mtm crosses at the frequency where the dispersion narrows total outside distance.
So 2 x 10" plus 3" for a tweet would be a cone distance 23", say 20 due to narrowing dispersion of a 10" past 1400hz.
1129ft (per sec) / 20" would be the dispersion of a 20" in the vertical.
So maybe 400hz.
Ideally it is closer to a point source, or disperson match tweet woof at xover.
My buddy crossed 2 x 6.5" below 2khz (i think), it didn't measure better than a higher frequency but sounded better.
That being said, some don't like the sound of d'apollito, more focused or more like sound coming at you from a tunnel.
I'm learning that dispersion can be a factor, i read one loved a tractrix horn, until he stood up (it narrows dispersion the higherr you go), it drove him nuts.
I made a 4x4" tang band full range focused array, the dispersion was so tight that when you stood it you felt a little dizzy, like a head cold hit your hearing. The 9x4" focused array didn't do that, but it really involved the room also, badly needed baffle step, nothing below 150hz, and don't make a bunch of 6" cube enclosures, they peak past 1khz.......
Ive made stuff people said would suck.
It didn't.
You have to remember that you are making something very specific.
It can be a give and take.
You can pick up one area then be worse in others.
So,
If making sawdust is free for you, go for it.
I don't regret anything made, learned from all, and later learned how to make it better.
Those are nice parts that can be reused.
I'd imagine a big mtm wouldn't work, but my double 15" to tweet horn tmm sounded fine crossed at 750hz. Not sure if it would have worked as well as an mtm though.
I think if you wire the 2 a26 in parallel you pick up 6db, would that match the tweet ?
I'll take a stab at this one.
I was tempted for something similar only more disastrous, a mttm with 10's. And 4" framed tweets. 6db crossing at 2khz.
Seems people liked the tekton pendragon or enzo with 3 x domes, even with dispersion.
Ideally a mtm crosses at the frequency where the dispersion narrows total outside distance.
So 2 x 10" plus 3" for a tweet would be a cone distance 23", say 20 due to narrowing dispersion of a 10" past 1400hz.
1129ft (per sec) / 20" would be the dispersion of a 20" in the vertical.
So maybe 400hz.
Ideally it is closer to a point source, or disperson match tweet woof at xover.
My buddy crossed 2 x 6.5" below 2khz (i think), it didn't measure better than a higher frequency but sounded better.
That being said, some don't like the sound of d'apollito, more focused or more like sound coming at you from a tunnel.
I'm learning that dispersion can be a factor, i read one loved a tractrix horn, until he stood up (it narrows dispersion the higherr you go), it drove him nuts.
I made a 4x4" tang band full range focused array, the dispersion was so tight that when you stood it you felt a little dizzy, like a head cold hit your hearing. The 9x4" focused array didn't do that, but it really involved the room also, badly needed baffle step, nothing below 150hz, and don't make a bunch of 6" cube enclosures, they peak past 1khz.......
Ive made stuff people said would suck.
It didn't.
You have to remember that you are making something very specific.
It can be a give and take.
You can pick up one area then be worse in others.
So,
If making sawdust is free for you, go for it.
I don't regret anything made, learned from all, and later learned how to make it better.
Those are nice parts that can be reused.
I'd imagine a big mtm wouldn't work, but my double 15" to tweet horn tmm sounded fine crossed at 750hz. Not sure if it would have worked as well as an mtm though.
I think if you wire the 2 a26 in parallel you pick up 6db, would that match the tweet ?
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