Searching for good 16cm (6.5') fullrange Drivers ...

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Hello !

A friend wants me to design him a speaker system with a correct impact and nice bass extension down to ~ 35Hz.

He has a budget of arround 450 euros, wood excluded (he's a carpenter :D )

I was looking for a Supravox 165 LB or 165GMF in a backloaded horn, that could go down to 35Hz with punch (amplified pulse of the horn), and eventualy completed by a Fostex FT17H tweeter.

Horns seem to be quite big and when I told him it could be 1m80 high, he was wondering if there was no way to obtain the same results, with the same musicality (so, excluding the use of a sub), in a smaller enclosure. However, he's enough room for such an enclosure, and he's ready to accept this kind of "monster"

I found the 6.5' driver type to be the best compromise for this price range, but others size may be suitable to, I don't know.

So, I ask everybody here if they know a 16cm/6.5' driver apart from the Supravox and Fostex that would be suitable for this use, or any other suggestion.

Thanks in advance ;) !
 
You could try the Diatone P-610MB, available from EIFL, Japan . They sell new for USD 500 + 50 shipping. It has quite some following, and was originally developed as a studi monitor for Japanese radio stations. A "modern vintage" so to speak.

I am using them in a fullrange setup. Very low moving mass (7 grams), detailed, suitable for ported cabinet, flat FR up to 16 kHz, Fs 80Hz-ish.

They won't go down to 35 Hz though, I believe. I use helper woofers for the LF extension. Still, musically speaking they are excellent and a FR likely won't do HT capable bass, ever, unless you use horns ...

As a matter of fact, I was considering parting with my Diatones because in the dipole setup they are somehow out of place (they don't have the needed very high excursion capability). Xmax is 2 mm, which is higher than most Fostexes, but not as high as modern non-fullrange woofers (usually 5 mm for a 6.5") . E-mail me off forum if interested...

Another site on the Diatone:

http://www.audionautes.com/Altriprodotti/Diatone/DataP-610.htm
 
youyoung21147 said:
Hello !

A friend wants me to design him a speaker system with a correct impact and nice bass extension down to ~ 35Hz.

He has a budget of arround 450 euros, wood excluded (he's a carpenter :D )

How about Jordan JX92S in GM's MLTL-48? They'll fit in budget and go down to 35Hz. And it's not 1.80m high. The plans can be found here:
http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/diy/index.html

Bonne chance avec le projet
 
MBK : the Diatone seems to be a good candidate ! it has a really smooth FR. Mybe I'm wrong but doesn't it seems to be discontinued ? I will ask my friend if he's ready to pay 550$ for these units, which I'm not sure of :cannotbe: .

Landroval : I told much my friend about the JX92 reputation, he told me it seemed to be a good driver he would choose in second place(he doesn't know much about speakers) but he asked if it had impact. I simulated it and it seems not to have more impact than my FX120. Therefore, it's not a very good candidate at this time. (Looking at its waterfall spectrum, I've been quite impressed by its results. Damps almost everything in 1ms!)

joensd : these enclosures seem to be TQWTs don't they ?
My friend has some FE127e and I suppose the FE167 has the same kind of sound (not bad but a little cold and "empty"). He compared my FX-120 to his FE127 and was convinced he would like to have more "high ended" drivers, and I approve him. (maybe I'm wrong but the FE167 I could touch, but not hear unfortunately, was built the same way in the same materials)

Apart from these drivers, does anyone have tried some 165 Supravox ? they do look promising also !

Concerning the quasi-supertweeters, do you think this project would deserve some better tweeters than the FT17H ?


Well, thanks for your replies, I just have to tell my friend about this tonight, cause right now he's building me a stand for my TangBand speakers :D
 
I use Martin J King's "closed box" worksheet and simulate a really huge enclosure (dozens m3) that stands for an infinite baffle. In the bottom of the sheet, a graph entitled "sound pressure in time domain" shows the impulse response of the driver, graduated in Pa (pascals). From what I've simulated and heard till now it seems to be very accurate.

It's what I call impact, I think this methods allows to foresee accurately the ability of a driver to reproduce strong impulsions with realism.
 
Hmmm... that sounds to me as though all you get is a reflection of a driver's open air Q. In other words, in a properly aligned box allowing for optimal impulse response (Q 0.5) , tailored to each driver, the waveforms you get should be identical for the different drivers...
 
Except with horns, which emit a double pulse, other designs seem to have the same "impact" than the infinite baffle. I simulated sealed boxes, TQWTs, bass reflex, and TLs and all keep the driver's impulse response shape in an infinite baffle. What varies after are the resonnances inside the box that may affect the impulsion damping. It also seems that bass reflex attenuates the impulse response a little, explaining people's preference for TLs and TQWTs IMHO.

The waveform is always approximately the same, but its amplitude varies.
 
Well, I spoke a little with my friend, he finds this too complicated and too expensive to order the Diatone drivers, or some Cora or anything else.

I asked the master of www.boxen-baustelle.de if he compared the Supravox to other drivers. He told me they are better than Fostex FE166/FE167 but that the Fe208Sigma (old version, with bicone) was slightly better.

So I have the driver, the Supravox 165LB.

Now, the horn : I'm playing with Martin's BLH worksheet, and it looks quite promising : rolls off at arround 40Hz, and f3 at 33Hz !

The horn is quite long, though (140inches) and so is the coupling chamber : 28inches !

The job for me now is to play with all these parameters to fit my friend's room : he's not very happy with the dimensions I told him !

el'Ol : you have a very nice website ! I'll try to simulate different horn shapes to get something not too huge :smash:


Well, all I have to do now is to design a (very??) compromised horn :clown: !

Thanks for all these replies

:angel:
 
Mmm...

A new element that I couldn't suspect being that good : the FE168E-Sigma, which I eliminated because of its very uneven frequency response in the highs, seems to be better, according to the guy at Boxen-Baustelle. He says the cone has better internal damping than the previous FE168sigma, but has less highs that could be compensated by adding a supertweeter.

Has anyone ever compared this driver to others, such as Jordan JX92, Fostex FX and F series, some FE206 or 207 ... ?
 
youyoung21147 said:
A friend wants me to design him a speaker system with a correct impact and nice bass extension down to ~ 35Hz.

He has a budget of arround 450 euros, wood excluded (he's a carpenter :D )

So, I ask everybody here if they know a 16cm/6.5' driver apart from the Supravox and Fostex that would be suitable for this use, or any other suggestion.

Your friend's requirements (FR, compact, big bass power) made me think of the coming bipole designs using the CSS FR125S and WR125S. Together these two drivers will challenge any 6" driver for bass power, and HF dispersion should be better due to the small cone diameter. Extension I believe will be down to 40 Hz range, in a compact and eye-pleasing TL. No need for a BSC circuit, it's already accomodated for by the rear-firing driver. NOTE: Rumour has it that this speaker system is not SET-friendly.

Creative Sound FRWRBIPOLE - A kit with 1 FR125S, 1WR125S, grilles, dual input cup, hardware, etc, to build any of the 3 designs available soon; Planet_10, Peter Menting and Dr Griffin.
http://www.creativesound.ca/
 
I have seen this driver, and plan to use it one day for a punchy cheap system, or in a home theater.

But IMHO, this driver doesn't reach "audiophile" requirements : I own some FX-120 drivers and my friend would like a system which would be at least as refined as these.

I think quality has a price, and this driver is maybe better than a Fostex Fe127, but I doubt it can equal Jordans or Fostex FX series.

Concerning bass-punch, the back horn I'm simulating should do the trick

Thanks for the suggestion !

:)
 
OK I just said that IMO, but maybe I'm wrong ! :clown:

I didn't say it is a bad driver (sure it isn't, many people find it good) but am not convinced it can equal the best fullrangers, concerning refinement, until I hear them : it is quite cheap compared to Jordan or Fostex, and its cone looks a little bit "tougher". I like the copper phase plug on them, it's a good concept.

I'd be happy one day if I could compare all the drivers I'm interested in, and it would be one of them, since it seems to have nice bass extension for such a small unit.


Concerning my project, I've found a compromise with my friend, concerning mainly the size of the horn : it will use a Supravox 165GMF in a horn that goes down to 40Hz-0db / 35Hz -3dB

We didn't choose the tweeter : ft17h is a very good cheap candidate but ribbons and horns, 2 or 3 times more expensive, could add something better. Any suggestion ?
 
youyoung21147 said:
We didn't choose the tweeter : ft17h is a very good cheap candidate but ribbons and horns, 2 or 3 times more expensive, could add something better. Any suggestion ?

Lots of choice here. Maybe a SEAS? http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/

I didn't find that adding a tweeter to the WR125S actually improved the sound. I got more and better highs, but the coherence suffered. Maybe I just didn't come up with the right circuit. In the end I preferred the sound without a tweeter, but I'm not done experimenting. I have a pair of FR125's on the way, so it will be interesting to compare.
 
Wow ! really nice link ! It's rare to see such comparatives !

I was rather looking for super-tweeter types, like horns and ribbons because the drivers in this link all have less than 97dB efficiency (at least what I require to match the Supravox), but my friend told me he would add better tweeters later if he wants, and we will begin the project with some FT17H tweeters. They have a good reputation for cheap tweeters

:D


All I have to do now is to find the best horn design, which I'm close to, and to draw the plans, a harsh job to fit correct dimensions !
 
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