I have a vintage early '60s Magnavox console that we use daily...it's in our living room and more than just casual listening. It's been recapped, I've modded/altered the turntable endlessly, we run either streaming or a vintage CD player also through the tape input, etc.
There are simply not enough high frequencies using the original drivers. I've replaced the single capacitor-crossover with a modern one of the same value with no real improvement. I've posted about this elsewhere and people go down the rabbit hold of questioning sources...what we are playing is often FLAC files from CD rips we've done, or HQ digital, or vinyl.
I hooked up a set of AR-15s directly to the amp and it sounded fine, so I know the issue is the speakers. I removed the original tweeters and pulled a pair of Vifas from an old set of unused Tannoy monitors, and while I can now hear high end, it's just not loud enough compared to the original woofer and mid that are both running full range per the original configuration.
So my question is this; could I - just for the sake of experimentation - safely pull the first-order crossover out of the old Tannoy PBM 8 since it's presumably set for the tweeter I removed from it, and use it to determine the overall impact of adding a more sophisticated crossover to the original mid and woofer?
If so, how would I hook this up? The speakers are all now in series with a single cap between the mid and the tweeter. Could I put the new crossover first, then run what currently goes to the single woofer in the original monitor to both mid and woofer, in series? I don't want to fry amp or speaker so asking if this is potentially a hazard.
I realize this might not be ideal and understand what I need is a specially designed crossover for these drivers but really want to experiment to see the impact volume-wise of having a crossover on the mid and woofer.
Thanks!
There are simply not enough high frequencies using the original drivers. I've replaced the single capacitor-crossover with a modern one of the same value with no real improvement. I've posted about this elsewhere and people go down the rabbit hold of questioning sources...what we are playing is often FLAC files from CD rips we've done, or HQ digital, or vinyl.
I hooked up a set of AR-15s directly to the amp and it sounded fine, so I know the issue is the speakers. I removed the original tweeters and pulled a pair of Vifas from an old set of unused Tannoy monitors, and while I can now hear high end, it's just not loud enough compared to the original woofer and mid that are both running full range per the original configuration.
So my question is this; could I - just for the sake of experimentation - safely pull the first-order crossover out of the old Tannoy PBM 8 since it's presumably set for the tweeter I removed from it, and use it to determine the overall impact of adding a more sophisticated crossover to the original mid and woofer?
If so, how would I hook this up? The speakers are all now in series with a single cap between the mid and the tweeter. Could I put the new crossover first, then run what currently goes to the single woofer in the original monitor to both mid and woofer, in series? I don't want to fry amp or speaker so asking if this is potentially a hazard.
I realize this might not be ideal and understand what I need is a specially designed crossover for these drivers but really want to experiment to see the impact volume-wise of having a crossover on the mid and woofer.
Thanks!
That doesn't sound right. The drivers should be in parallel with at least a capacitor in series with the midrange and a smaller value capacitor in series with the tweeter.
A simple 3-way crossover is shown in the attachment. Does this make sense?
Attachments
No, the original setup wasn't a 3-way crossover at all. You can't see it well in this photo (hiding behind woofer) but the only thing inside was a single cap between the mid and tweeter, which I've replaced. As I say I've also replaced the original tweeter shown here with a modern Vifa.
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Will do shortly but looking at the photo I think they are actually parallel - I hadn’t paid that close attention, so all apologies. The + and - from the amp go to the woofer, then the a second lug on each individual terminal feeds the input of the mid, then the same for the tweeter coming from the mid except it has a cap inserted on the + side. There is only the one cap in the whole setup.
That makes more sense, although I would expect a capacitor on the + side of the midrange as well so that the bass frequencies don't reach the midrange driver.
Including the Tannoy crossover in your console circuit won't do anything to increase the sound level from the substitute Tannoy tweeter.
You may have to substitute a tweeter with a very high sensitivity e.g. in excess of 92dB/W/m.
That all looks fairly typical of the Maggie and other consoles I have worked on. The tweeters just don't have much high end. As Galu points out, you'll need to try a tweeter with fairly good sensitivity. An L-Pad ill help you find the level you need. And a single cap should be enough, you can start with the value you already have.
BTW, if you were to buy some tweeters to test, what's your budget?
BTW, if you were to buy some tweeters to test, what's your budget?
You tell me - we listen to this daily so I would consider whatever sounds the best. I'm used to AR tweeters in my old 2xa and 15s so I like really clean, clear, smooth top end without it being brittle or edgy. What would you suggest that would work in this setup?
By the way, the vifas I'm using show a 92db sensitivity, would just a couple decibels more make that big a difference? They're working fine, I think they're just overpowered by the mid speaker.
EDIT: Didn't see your post above before I posted.
The problem I see is the very one you are having, getting the tweeters loud enough to match the other drivers. As you don't really know how loud the Magnavox drivers are, the best idea is to get loud tweeters and turn them down. That kinda points to horn loaded tweeters. Magnavox did use horn tweeters in many consoles.
You should be able to find some nice softdome tweeters in the $25-35 each range at Parts-Express. Peerless, Vifa and even the Dayton brand.
The problem I see is the very one you are having, getting the tweeters loud enough to match the other drivers. As you don't really know how loud the Magnavox drivers are, the best idea is to get loud tweeters and turn them down. That kinda points to horn loaded tweeters. Magnavox did use horn tweeters in many consoles.
You should be able to find some nice softdome tweeters in the $25-35 each range at Parts-Express. Peerless, Vifa and even the Dayton brand.
I think I have a console with the same drivers that you have. I might be able to test the midrange. Still, I'm surprised that a 92 dB Vifa doesn't keep up.
Since you're messing around with that Maggie console, (of which I've restored many for customers) try this..... Phenolic Ring Tweeter Replacement for AR-4X CTS Marantz and More 8 Ohm
Put a 4 to 6uf nonpolarised cap in the + side and let us know how it sounds.
Put a 4 to 6uf nonpolarised cap in the + side and let us know how it sounds.
Yep, it's an OK driver and should do the trick. I just wonder about levels, tho, if the Vifa isn't loud enough.
Maybe how the crossover is wired.
Maybe how the crossover is wired.
I would think the drivers in the console are much more efficient than those vifa tweeters, like 6 - 8dB over their operating frequency range.
What about a pair of vintage EV T35 tweeters?
Pair Electro Voice EV T35B Horn Tweeters t35 | eBay
What about a pair of vintage EV T35 tweeters?
Pair Electro Voice EV T35B Horn Tweeters t35 | eBay
I'm not at all opposed to vintage, presuming I'm not just getting more of what was in the Magnavox to begin with, which weren't that great. Do these EVs have a pretty good sound/presence? I've never owned a pair. Only EV I have is a single 15" full range driver.
FWIW, the crossovers in the console were replaced with this, if that makes a difference:
Solen 2.2uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor
FWIW, the crossovers in the console were replaced with this, if that makes a difference:
Solen 2.2uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor
They're not the ultimate horn tweeter, but they are well regarded by many and variants were used in the Klipschorn, they're far better than anything Magnavox used back in the day. There is a lot of information online for these and their relatives.
Remembering the Electro-Voice T35 Super Tweeter | audioXpress
K77(M) and T35(B) - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community
Remembering the Electro-Voice T35 Super Tweeter | audioXpress
K77(M) and T35(B) - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community
Yes the EV would be a nice choice. You might also look at the Peerless H26TG06-06 which is a waveguide loaded tweeter that hits almost 100dB @2.83 volts thru much of its range.
Friends who have used them like them.
Friends who have used them like them.
Magnavox, along with other makers of "console stereos" purposely designed their systems to be on the "bassy side", because that was what people at the time wanted.
After living with a table radio most of their lives, the bass made them buy a console.
They were not designed with real high fidelity in mind, just impressive boom.
In order to satisfy these current audiophiles, changes to the whole console need to be done.
Amp, speakers, and even the console cabinet.
Been there, done that, many times.
My stripped down and completely gutted 1963 RCA Victor console - and the final result - photos....(the inside control panel was torn out and re-done by me for new tuner-preamp/record changer layout)
And yes, the front grill panel is also new - replaced the 8 inch pathetic woofers with 12's and new tweeters.
After living with a table radio most of their lives, the bass made them buy a console.
They were not designed with real high fidelity in mind, just impressive boom.
In order to satisfy these current audiophiles, changes to the whole console need to be done.
Amp, speakers, and even the console cabinet.
Been there, done that, many times.
My stripped down and completely gutted 1963 RCA Victor console - and the final result - photos....(the inside control panel was torn out and re-done by me for new tuner-preamp/record changer layout)
And yes, the front grill panel is also new - replaced the 8 inch pathetic woofers with 12's and new tweeters.
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