Anyone built a 3 way medium size floor standers using SB Satori drivers.
Something like a 60-65l bass reflex with WO24p-8 (slightly under optimum size but f3 just under 30hz) plus MR/MW13p-8 in 3-5l closed (Any ideas as to what to do with the 1500hz “wiggle”) and TW29R(B)N (option for cheaper 29RDC or 26ADC).
Would make a nice project I think with a few options.
Something like a 60-65l bass reflex with WO24p-8 (slightly under optimum size but f3 just under 30hz) plus MR/MW13p-8 in 3-5l closed (Any ideas as to what to do with the 1500hz “wiggle”) and TW29R(B)N (option for cheaper 29RDC or 26ADC).
Would make a nice project I think with a few options.
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Take a look at this: SB Satori 3-vejs - SpeakerBuilder Forum - Page 1
It's Danish though, but google translate will probably help
It's Danish though, but google translate will probably help
I have similar construction in process. NE265+MR16+TW29. At the beginning there was WO24P but I was not satisfied with its sound. I tried LR2-LR4 at 250-400Hz, but certain character was still there.
Images are not updated yet but Vituix six pack is up to date:
en-EV :: Pkaudio
Images are not updated yet but Vituix six pack is up to date:
en-EV :: Pkaudio
In 60-65l you can use two Seas L21 woofers which are pretty cheap right now at Falcon and I bet they`d sound better than a single WOP24.
Thanks all, bit of bedtime reading there to do. Any thoughts as to which is the best satori mid in a 8” + x” + 1-1.2” setup and can you hear that 1.5khz dip/boost in the frequency plots, is the mac or cat as goid as the satori as they do not seem to have that wiggle.
My other option if there is nothing ready to go is the Statement Mini which is more like the suggestion by Mario.
My other option if there is nothing ready to go is the Statement Mini which is more like the suggestion by Mario.
Two guys in Poland did a Satori 3-way floorstander which, in my opinion, is properly designed and fully documented:
Full Satori 3-way: WO24P-8, MR16P-4, TW29RN - projekt by Piotr F. & pawel_luk1
Interestingly, there's also a comment about the Satori WO24P-8 woofer. 🙂
Full Satori 3-way: WO24P-8, MR16P-4, TW29RN - projekt by Piotr F. & pawel_luk1
Interestingly, there's also a comment about the Satori WO24P-8 woofer. 🙂
Attachments
Hmmm, Looks like Mr. Troels has done it again -
New TG Speaker
A large stand mount at around 1.5ft3 using the W024p-8, MR13p-8 and TW29RN-B8 (or the beryllium version if you like). I guess it could be made up into a floor stander with the xover in the base (not Bass) cavity.
New TG Speaker
A large stand mount at around 1.5ft3 using the W024p-8, MR13p-8 and TW29RN-B8 (or the beryllium version if you like). I guess it could be made up into a floor stander with the xover in the base (not Bass) cavity.
I built one with TW29RN, MW13P-4 and Volt B2549 woofer. The woofer was built in a 34L box with a 3x12 vent, crossover points are 230 and 2300, both LR2. May post some pics and a more detailed description later.
Now those have been spoken for, I need to think about my next iteration. Unsure which way to go, but the Satori Be domes will probably feature. Haven't yet thought about the rest of it, but none of the SB or Satori woofers are working for me at the low end.
Re the 1500Hz wiggle I would suggest to leave it alone. It looks a lot worse than it actually is, the notch is very narrow, less than 1/8th of an octave and practically inaudible. And if you cross around 2-2.4K, there is some tweeter output in that region anyway. My sims show around 2.5dB dip across a 200Hz range for the finished speaker. I wouldn't worry about it. I chose to tilt the tweeter response upwards slightly (about 1dB) to compensate for the off-axis listening position.
Now those have been spoken for, I need to think about my next iteration. Unsure which way to go, but the Satori Be domes will probably feature. Haven't yet thought about the rest of it, but none of the SB or Satori woofers are working for me at the low end.
Re the 1500Hz wiggle I would suggest to leave it alone. It looks a lot worse than it actually is, the notch is very narrow, less than 1/8th of an octave and practically inaudible. And if you cross around 2-2.4K, there is some tweeter output in that region anyway. My sims show around 2.5dB dip across a 200Hz range for the finished speaker. I wouldn't worry about it. I chose to tilt the tweeter response upwards slightly (about 1dB) to compensate for the off-axis listening position.
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What are you experincing that you dont like with the SB woofer drivers? Just to trying and understand.
I can't speak for others, but I find the required box volume too large for a reasonably compact floorstanding speaker that needs to hit a 25Hz in-room target. When I say compact I mean ~40L target volume. I would not hesitate to use this driver for bass and low mid duty in a sealed enclosure given the excursion and low distortion through the midrange. This trait is shared by many 8-10" hifi woofers, the Satori is not the only one.
What I need is something else - a dedicated sub-bass driver that has some capability to extend to about 300-400Hz. I may actually use the Volt again in spite of the price increase by 30% since my last purchase. It is stellar at the low end but needs to be crossed by 200Hz, ideally 120. So that will call for MW16 (not MR) for the mid duty. Thankfully the hard dome should also allow me to cross lower than earlier, so a 6" driver becomes feasible.
What I need is something else - a dedicated sub-bass driver that has some capability to extend to about 300-400Hz. I may actually use the Volt again in spite of the price increase by 30% since my last purchase. It is stellar at the low end but needs to be crossed by 200Hz, ideally 120. So that will call for MW16 (not MR) for the mid duty. Thankfully the hard dome should also allow me to cross lower than earlier, so a 6" driver becomes feasible.
You might have a look at the satorique diy builds
Speakers Intertechnik - Shop - Shop
or SB acoustics own kit
SB Acoustics :: Rinjani - Satori Kit
Speakers Intertechnik - Shop - Shop
or SB acoustics own kit
SB Acoustics :: Rinjani - Satori Kit
Sangram,
Whilst the Satori 9.5" may need a bigger cabinet, it has been independantly measured to best Scanspeak's around the critical 60-200hz region courtesy of hificompass.com.
I've also measured SB's Ara to reach 25hz in my 700sqft living room so the Rinjani will as well with better bass.
I also found the Uluwatu design to have one of the best bass i've heard, besting my large 3 way with Acoustic Elegance 15" woofers. It was fast, agile yet had depth when the recording calls for it.
I've often wondered what a MW16 version of the Uluwatu will sound like... 🙂 Being a 2.5 way and 96db too, my Uluwatus are happily driven by a 1.5w 2A3 in the same living room.
Whilst the Satori 9.5" may need a bigger cabinet, it has been independantly measured to best Scanspeak's around the critical 60-200hz region courtesy of hificompass.com.
I've also measured SB's Ara to reach 25hz in my 700sqft living room so the Rinjani will as well with better bass.
I also found the Uluwatu design to have one of the best bass i've heard, besting my large 3 way with Acoustic Elegance 15" woofers. It was fast, agile yet had depth when the recording calls for it.
I've often wondered what a MW16 version of the Uluwatu will sound like... 🙂 Being a 2.5 way and 96db too, my Uluwatus are happily driven by a 1.5w 2A3 in the same living room.
Sangram,
In a sealed 43-liter volume, the Satori WO24P-8 produces Qtc=0.7 with -F3 ~ 44Hz. Which seems a good match for your goals.
The Dayton RSS315HFA8 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 8 Ohm gets good recommendations for a musical, sealed box subwoofer up to 400-500Hz. Aluminum cone. Triple shorting rings on magnet. Modest price. This driver has low efficiency ~85db sensitivity as the trade-off to allow deep bass in a modest volume sealed box. The 4-ohm version with Re=3.1-ohms has ~90db sensitivity.
Your goals require DSP for at least the woofer and subwoofer.
In a sealed 43-liter volume, the Satori WO24P-8 produces Qtc=0.7 with -F3 ~ 44Hz. Which seems a good match for your goals.
The Dayton RSS315HFA8 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 8 Ohm gets good recommendations for a musical, sealed box subwoofer up to 400-500Hz. Aluminum cone. Triple shorting rings on magnet. Modest price. This driver has low efficiency ~85db sensitivity as the trade-off to allow deep bass in a modest volume sealed box. The 4-ohm version with Re=3.1-ohms has ~90db sensitivity.
Your goals require DSP for at least the woofer and subwoofer.
Hi,
I am not saying it's not a great driver. It just doesn't work for me. My listening room is not the largest room in my house, and it doesn't have much space so I do need something with a compact footprint and very good low end at the same time.
What the WO24 does do very well is the 150-500Hz band which dedicated subs cannot cover properly. Since a 3-way also has a compromise between the two crossover points, my present choice would be to use a larger mid and cross it lower at both ends.
In the current execution the 5" woofer (the MR hadn't released when I made my purchase) does exhibit significant excursion at high levels. I wouldn't trust a 5" mid to do that without audible strain. The ring radiator design also has some increase in distortion levels below 2kHz, something I know a hard dome will have less of.
But I still need enclosure to be within 60-70L maximum including all drivers, whereas two WO-24s are requiring a cabinet closer to 100L, which is not really feasible. I haven't yet counted them out of the running, so we'll see.
Hi
In a ported enclosure, the Volt B2549 has F3 ~30Hz with in-room response to 18Hz. I might as well use the same one again, though I would like something that is able to cross a bit higher. I'll keep looking. The Daytons are good but not available in India. After freight and customs they end up totally not worth it.
I am not saying it's not a great driver. It just doesn't work for me. My listening room is not the largest room in my house, and it doesn't have much space so I do need something with a compact footprint and very good low end at the same time.
What the WO24 does do very well is the 150-500Hz band which dedicated subs cannot cover properly. Since a 3-way also has a compromise between the two crossover points, my present choice would be to use a larger mid and cross it lower at both ends.
In the current execution the 5" woofer (the MR hadn't released when I made my purchase) does exhibit significant excursion at high levels. I wouldn't trust a 5" mid to do that without audible strain. The ring radiator design also has some increase in distortion levels below 2kHz, something I know a hard dome will have less of.
But I still need enclosure to be within 60-70L maximum including all drivers, whereas two WO-24s are requiring a cabinet closer to 100L, which is not really feasible. I haven't yet counted them out of the running, so we'll see.
Hi
In a ported enclosure, the Volt B2549 has F3 ~30Hz with in-room response to 18Hz. I might as well use the same one again, though I would like something that is able to cross a bit higher. I'll keep looking. The Daytons are good but not available in India. After freight and customs they end up totally not worth it.
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Sangram,
Some designers favor putting the vocal range on one midwoofer, like the Satori MW16P-4 with sealed -F3 ~75Hz, or the more efficient midrange MR16P-4 with sealed -F3 ~100Hz.
With enough DSP equalization, a musical 12" woofer like the SB34NRX75-6 can cover from 25Hz up to the 100Hz midrange plus baffle step in a modest 125-150 liter sealed volume cabinet. YES, a wider main cabinet, but an Avalon klone with deep top bevels should provide enough style to keep the eye and brain happy.
If you enjoy wood work, the Avalon Compas has a new "double bevel" top which would help stylishly slim this 15" wide cabinet.
Some designers favor putting the vocal range on one midwoofer, like the Satori MW16P-4 with sealed -F3 ~75Hz, or the more efficient midrange MR16P-4 with sealed -F3 ~100Hz.
With enough DSP equalization, a musical 12" woofer like the SB34NRX75-6 can cover from 25Hz up to the 100Hz midrange plus baffle step in a modest 125-150 liter sealed volume cabinet. YES, a wider main cabinet, but an Avalon klone with deep top bevels should provide enough style to keep the eye and brain happy.
If you enjoy wood work, the Avalon Compas has a new "double bevel" top which would help stylishly slim this 15" wide cabinet.
^Adoringly beautiful!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I would like to know has anyone tried the WO24P in a closed box? I have a very good subwoofer so a closed box f3 in the 50's is just fine. I am in a smaller house now; I would prefer a vented box with 2 each WO24P 8 Ohm drivers in parallel tuned to about 23 Hz. The goal would be flat in-room response down to about 27 Hz for the Piano, 5 string bass, contra-bassoon, etc. fundamentals. I just don't have the room right now for that so it can wait. I'm thinking closed box 1.0 to 1.25 Ft.^3 for either the WO24P 4 or 8 Ohm. Anyone try this yet? What did you think?? Thanks!
YOU COULD.... put two WO24P in a well constructed 2.6cuft sealed cabinet volume and add a 20Hz Linkwitz Transform equalization circuit. ... even at-listener equalized DSP. Work to get the best front stereo bass at the listener from stereo WO24P front woofer pairs, and room-position your subwoofer to reduce deep bass ~40Hz room modes.
Geddes: “The mains should be designed for the best possible direct field with as flat a power response as possible. Room equalization of the mains could only make them worse.”
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Ported WO24P can never produce the sharp transients of sealed WO24P.
OVER THE TOP designers would use two 4-ohm WO24P woofers, each with a 4-ohm amplifier.
Geddes: “The mains should be designed for the best possible direct field with as flat a power response as possible. Room equalization of the mains could only make them worse.”
------
Ported WO24P can never produce the sharp transients of sealed WO24P.
OVER THE TOP designers would use two 4-ohm WO24P woofers, each with a 4-ohm amplifier.
For this current project; my total volume (per side) can't exceed about 1.6 ft^3. My sub has a plate amp with very good bass management controls so getting the lowest octaves to blend well with woofers and room response isn't a big issue. I'm wanting to cover the woofer range in the 50's to as high as 500 Hz. I will continue to look; another possibility would be two 8 in. woofers per side instead of one 10 in. Right now, I have a single 6 in. per side in vented boxes. These do a decent job but I want to move more air without sacrificing articulation or bass accuracy so I'm thinking a single 10 in. or dual 8 in. per side would meet my needs. (i.e. TRUE woofers; NOT sub woofer drivers here).
Thanks!