Update time.
Another mega full-on day today resulted in the 2nd cab having all it's internals fitted...
...and then I made up to 2 little triangular shaped dividers with the aid of my super-duper new belt sander...
and then stuck 'em in...
Thats another 9 hour solid day of building, love it.
Bit of wool felt fettling tommorow.
DTB
Another mega full-on day today resulted in the 2nd cab having all it's internals fitted...
...and then I made up to 2 little triangular shaped dividers with the aid of my super-duper new belt sander...
and then stuck 'em in...
Thats another 9 hour solid day of building, love it.
Bit of wool felt fettling tommorow.
DTB
Scottmoose said:
...of course... I could come back and say they're rubbish BEFORE I power them up
I thought the MLTL's were a wrong 'un' before I'd run-in the 167's. How wrong could I be!
Your old Blueygreeny 126's should be well and truly run-in I'm guessing.
BTW... I need to double check that I've got the damping right Scott. I'll post a mock up in the morning before gluing, if someone can say yey or ney that'd be good!
DTB
Question, on a horn enclosure like this, what's the accepted way of getting the driver cabling out of the cab?
Directly out the back behind the driver? Feed it down the port pathway then exit closer to ground level?
I'll keep the cable tucked (blob of PVA ?) into the corners obviously.
Just cutting the wool-felt to size.
DTB
Directly out the back behind the driver? Feed it down the port pathway then exit closer to ground level?
I'll keep the cable tucked (blob of PVA ?) into the corners obviously.
Just cutting the wool-felt to size.
DTB
Wool felt damping. Like this OK?
...and with the driver in...
Nothings glued in yet and I've also noticed I've dampened the top AND bottom. Scott mentioned " Very little damping should be needed. Top, one side & rear of the filter chamber (not blocking the throat, obviously... ) " from an earlier posting.
If I remove the bottom-most bit should that be OK?
Sorry for all the questions, still learning here.
DTB
...and with the driver in...
Nothings glued in yet and I've also noticed I've dampened the top AND bottom. Scott mentioned " Very little damping should be needed. Top, one side & rear of the filter chamber (not blocking the throat, obviously... ) " from an earlier posting.
If I remove the bottom-most bit should that be OK?
Sorry for all the questions, still learning here.
DTB
Should be fine as-is. You can always remove a little later if you feel it would benefit from it.
As for the wire, I personally dislike having binding posts a long way off the floor, so I'd be inclined to keep them closer to ground level, but high enough so they won't be visible at the back of the lower horn mouth.
As for the wire, I personally dislike having binding posts a long way off the floor, so I'd be inclined to keep them closer to ground level, but high enough so they won't be visible at the back of the lower horn mouth.
Thanks for the reply Scott, Happy New Year BTW!
Well, curiosity got the better of me....
Oooo...VERY different sound from the Fonken's. I know it's problee bad practise but I wanted to hear what they sounded like before the final glue-up. I know the cab is probably rattling about like bonkers but up close the o/p form the horns is very dominant, move back and the whole thing harmonizes. The Mids are sooooooooooooooo springy and lively, very 'horny' on first impressions.
All the above is listening to only ONE cab clamped not glued.
I'll temp lash the other together and see how they sound together.
TBH, I'm 'concerned' the mids are overpowering, could it be the loose side-panel resonating?
Padwan DTB
Well, curiosity got the better of me....
Oooo...VERY different sound from the Fonken's. I know it's problee bad practise but I wanted to hear what they sounded like before the final glue-up. I know the cab is probably rattling about like bonkers but up close the o/p form the horns is very dominant, move back and the whole thing harmonizes. The Mids are sooooooooooooooo springy and lively, very 'horny' on first impressions.
All the above is listening to only ONE cab clamped not glued.
I'll temp lash the other together and see how they sound together.
TBH, I'm 'concerned' the mids are overpowering, could it be the loose side-panel resonating?
Padwan DTB
Probable. There shouldn't be any midrange coming out of the horn. Note that it's a 126 as well, not a 127, with an inherently different character (it's somewhat sharper across the midband), and they are designed for a minimum listening distance of 8ft, so listening close up won't do them any favours, as you found.
Happy New Year mate.
Happy New Year mate.
Ok, I'm not giving in :wink:
I re-measured my listening position, I'm about 10ft away. I can go further back, another 23ft but I lose my sweet 'imaging' spot then, my listening triangle gets very tall but no wider IYKWIM. Our house is a weird layout, downstairs has 3 rooms all knocked through but each room has small side partition walls marking where each room boundary used to be.
I've lashed up the 2nd cab with gaffa tape (stop sniggering at the back!) and yes, the 2 of the them together sounds better. A lot better.
But summat was still 'lively'... Julie described it as 'unforgiving' and y'know what? She's right. I investigated further and found the back of the cab wasn't held properly together so I reconfigured the clamping arrangement. Lo and behold, a lot less honk. The 6ft side of one of the cab's has a slight warp in it, I can pull it straight with clamps and it lines back up again just fine.
Like this the Left channel sounds very good...
...whereas the right hand (gaffa tape special!) less so.
Sticking a pair of spare clamps on the right hand side dampens the honk down, getting there.
I'm thinking of gluing one :shock:
There's summat soooooooo right about the way they play some stuff... but I'm not 100% convinced. Time (and a lot of glue and clamping force!) will tell.
Thanks for all the i/p everyone, really appreciate y'all taking part.
DTB
I re-measured my listening position, I'm about 10ft away. I can go further back, another 23ft but I lose my sweet 'imaging' spot then, my listening triangle gets very tall but no wider IYKWIM. Our house is a weird layout, downstairs has 3 rooms all knocked through but each room has small side partition walls marking where each room boundary used to be.
I've lashed up the 2nd cab with gaffa tape (stop sniggering at the back!) and yes, the 2 of the them together sounds better. A lot better.
But summat was still 'lively'... Julie described it as 'unforgiving' and y'know what? She's right. I investigated further and found the back of the cab wasn't held properly together so I reconfigured the clamping arrangement. Lo and behold, a lot less honk. The 6ft side of one of the cab's has a slight warp in it, I can pull it straight with clamps and it lines back up again just fine.
Like this the Left channel sounds very good...
...whereas the right hand (gaffa tape special!) less so.
Sticking a pair of spare clamps on the right hand side dampens the honk down, getting there.
I'm thinking of gluing one :shock:
There's summat soooooooo right about the way they play some stuff... but I'm not 100% convinced. Time (and a lot of glue and clamping force!) will tell.
Thanks for all the i/p everyone, really appreciate y'all taking part.
DTB
They're not supposed to be forgiving. They're a high-gain design.
The drivers will need some hours on them. They were sitting for a while, so you'll have spend a little while loosening them up again.
Once you've glued them up, if you still want a more damped sound, add more damping to your own taste, as we discussed a while back. That part is up to the builder as they're the only one who knows their room, system, taste etc.
The drivers will need some hours on them. They were sitting for a while, so you'll have spend a little while loosening them up again.
Once you've glued them up, if you still want a more damped sound, add more damping to your own taste, as we discussed a while back. That part is up to the builder as they're the only one who knows their room, system, taste etc.
Thanks for the words of wisdom again Scott.
Okey Dokey, I'll glue-em up tomorrow, then I'll run 'em in for a few days in anti-phase down the shed and see how they sound then, I must admit, towards the end of the afternoon they did sound better, I know that fo' sure as it wasn't such a leap when I went back to the Fonk's.
I did some more research and found the those Bailey Belt clamps I've been using resonate the box! Really, no kidding. I can 'excite' them by playing music through the speakers and feel the braces vibrating! With no music playing the braces become a bass string stretched over a very nice sound box.... duh! Thats another reason the sound changed when I re-configured the clamping arrangement I reckon.
Onwards (as ever!!!)
Cheers again for all the encouragement,
All the best
DTB.
Okey Dokey, I'll glue-em up tomorrow, then I'll run 'em in for a few days in anti-phase down the shed and see how they sound then, I must admit, towards the end of the afternoon they did sound better, I know that fo' sure as it wasn't such a leap when I went back to the Fonk's.
I did some more research and found the those Bailey Belt clamps I've been using resonate the box! Really, no kidding. I can 'excite' them by playing music through the speakers and feel the braces vibrating! With no music playing the braces become a bass string stretched over a very nice sound box.... duh!
Thats another reason the sound changed when I re-configured the clamping arrangement I reckon.Onwards (as ever!!!)
Cheers again for all the encouragement,
All the best
DTB.
This thread is quite inspiring, I've yet to dive into actually building the Saburo's and have the drivers here and well worked in, I just needed a push and this thread seems to be it. So after I finish my current projest my FF85K/Silverflute 5" hybrid Open back on the FF85K and slot loaded box for the SF. Either way the inspirational juices are flowing and it's thanks to you.
placement
I've built three pairs of Saburo's and heard them set up in three completely different style rooms. In every case, having them close to the front wall makes them sound a bit bright and non-forgiving. Pulling them out into the room, similar to how one would place a di-pole, has improved the sound in every room. Most of the time, four to five feet from the front listening wall. Seating distance seems to be less critical than speaker placement in relation to walls. Before treating with more or less fiber in the horn, try playing with placement as it will make a dramatic difference.
I've built three pairs of Saburo's and heard them set up in three completely different style rooms. In every case, having them close to the front wall makes them sound a bit bright and non-forgiving. Pulling them out into the room, similar to how one would place a di-pole, has improved the sound in every room. Most of the time, four to five feet from the front listening wall. Seating distance seems to be less critical than speaker placement in relation to walls. Before treating with more or less fiber in the horn, try playing with placement as it will make a dramatic difference.
Thanks for all the kind words people, I'm touched (in a non-physical sense you understand...)
I've been soooo busy with the build recently I haven't had time to update but here goes...
Right, after a lot of debating I took the plunge to glue the Sab's and leave everything 'as is', no extra dampning or any such trickery, I'll leave that for later if needs be. Here's Sab-Cab-one being glued and clamped. Luckilly I have a very understanding partner ...
To say it was cold outside is an understatement (for the UK). Too cold for gluing or constructing down the shed.
ICE on my skateboard-pads, sod working outside or down the shed. It's also too cold for PVA woodglue where it says on the bottle don't use below 7DegC, it was -4.7 last night in the normally tropical county of Kent!
After a whole 24hrs drying in clamps I carefully undid them all and lo and behold, A Saburo that can stand on it's own with no braces or clamps (or gaffa tape!) to hold him together.
..also notice a nice little 126 fitted, well. I powered up the glued-up cab and it sounded waaaaay better than before. I did notice that familiar 'not-run-in-Fostex-weedly-no-bass-all-mid-and-no -treble-sound' that I had when I built the MLTL's and likkle Fonkens, I knew what to do...thrash the little blighters with some Dub It worked, after a brief thrashing with the face of the cab close to the carpet to muffle the volume they sounded very nice, back came the top and bottom and the mid's fell back in-line, still not perfect but here's a very scientific pictorial representation of the change in sound...
Before 'thrashing'....
..after thrashing..
Much happier, I've a feeling they'll get even better after a couple day's dub on the end of a few watts worth of moderate volume face-to-face in antiphase. My little Fonkens sounded even better at home after we thrashed them mercilessly at the last DIY-fest in Yorkshire and I'd been running them solid since June-ish.
Today Sab-Cab-Two got the glue up treatment.
Went together pretty easily as did the 1st, nothing to report. Then while that was drying (still is achally) I went back down the chilly-shed to make the little terminal blocks and plates to hold the binding posts...
Et Voila as the Dutch say...
I know I'm gonna get 'points deducted' by DaveD or ChrisB fer using slot-head screws but that's all I had, I'll replace them later, honest!
Did a quick tidy-up down the shed and found I'd made 1 and 1/4 buckets of BP sawdust in 10 days...
Clamps come off tomorrow (the cab, not me) and I'll glue the terminal blocks on and solder the binding posts on.
Next up comes a zillion coats of natural Danish Oil. It's all 'go' y'know.
TTFN,
DTB
I've been soooo busy with the build recently I haven't had time to update but here goes...
Right, after a lot of debating I took the plunge to glue the Sab's and leave everything 'as is', no extra dampning or any such trickery, I'll leave that for later if needs be. Here's Sab-Cab-one being glued and clamped. Luckilly I have a very understanding partner ...
To say it was cold outside is an understatement (for the UK). Too cold for gluing or constructing down the shed.
ICE on my skateboard-pads, sod working outside or down the shed. It's also too cold for PVA woodglue where it says on the bottle don't use below 7DegC, it was -4.7 last night in the normally tropical county of Kent!
After a whole 24hrs drying in clamps I carefully undid them all and lo and behold, A Saburo that can stand on it's own with no braces or clamps (or gaffa tape!) to hold him together.
..also notice a nice little 126 fitted, well. I powered up the glued-up cab and it sounded waaaaay better than before. I did notice that familiar 'not-run-in-Fostex-weedly-no-bass-all-mid-and-no -treble-sound' that I had when I built the MLTL's and likkle Fonkens, I knew what to do...thrash the little blighters with some Dub
It worked, after a brief thrashing with the face of the cab close to the carpet to muffle the volume they sounded very nice, back came the top and bottom and the mid's fell back in-line, still not perfect but here's a very scientific pictorial representation of the change in sound...Before 'thrashing'....
..after thrashing..
Much happier, I've a feeling they'll get even better after a couple day's dub on the end of a few watts worth of moderate volume face-to-face in antiphase. My little Fonkens sounded even better at home after we thrashed them mercilessly at the last DIY-fest in Yorkshire and I'd been running them solid since June-ish.Today Sab-Cab-Two got the glue up treatment.
Went together pretty easily as did the 1st, nothing to report. Then while that was drying (still is achally) I went back down the chilly-shed to make the little terminal blocks and plates to hold the binding posts...
Et Voila as the Dutch say...
I know I'm gonna get 'points deducted' by DaveD or ChrisB fer using slot-head screws but that's all I had, I'll replace them later, honest!
Did a quick tidy-up down the shed and found I'd made 1 and 1/4 buckets of BP sawdust in 10 days...
Clamps come off tomorrow (the cab, not me) and I'll glue the terminal blocks on and solder the binding posts on.
Next up comes a zillion coats of natural Danish Oil. It's all 'go' y'know.
TTFN,
DTB
Another full-on day. Clamps off then I fitted both cabs with their drivers to have a look-hear preview. I left 'em for 30 min's running flat out fed from Loftin-White which in turn was being fed with a mono MJQ LP (near full cancellation y'see but moderate cone 'awakening'.)
They sound VERY VERY good on acoustic stuff, I had a good 90 min listening sesh. All the usual stuff plus some 'testers'. They didn't sound too hot on Mr Dury's New Booty and Panties but did sound soo-bloomin'-perb on Tracey Chapman/Paul Simon/Van Morrison/America and bizarrely Cake's 3rd CD and Sly and Robbies 'A Dub experience'... very interesting. I still hear a slight boxy tone in some lower mids, something is still getting excitable. I tell you what set's it off... you know when a conga player bashes then slides their fingers across the skin to change the pitch of the percussion 'note' ... sounds like a "Ahwoooooo" sound...well... that sets off the peaky-resonance. Odd, I'll play with them later when they're all tarted up and finished, I like the idea of tweaking them to suit my needs/room.
Completely sanded them today and washed 'em in white spirit. Glued on the little blocks to hold on the binding posts. Back to work tomorrow so there problee wont be much going on for a little while Saburo-wise
TTFN
DTB
They sound VERY VERY good on acoustic stuff, I had a good 90 min listening sesh. All the usual stuff plus some 'testers'. They didn't sound too hot on Mr Dury's New Booty and Panties but did sound soo-bloomin'-perb on Tracey Chapman/Paul Simon/Van Morrison/America and bizarrely Cake's 3rd CD and Sly and Robbies 'A Dub experience'... very interesting. I still hear a slight boxy tone in some lower mids, something is still getting excitable. I tell you what set's it off... you know when a conga player bashes then slides their fingers across the skin to change the pitch of the percussion 'note' ... sounds like a "Ahwoooooo" sound...well... that sets off the peaky-resonance. Odd, I'll play with them later when they're all tarted up and finished, I like the idea of tweaking them to suit my needs/room.
Completely sanded them today and washed 'em in white spirit. Glued on the little blocks to hold on the binding posts. Back to work tomorrow so there problee wont be much going on for a little while Saburo-wise
TTFN
DTB
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