That's likely the truth overall and both the Beta8A and 8PE21 have one thing in common - the cone. Im not sure who makes the specific cone/surround assembly for these drivers, but the design is brilliant.
The Beta8A playes lower than the 8PE21 thanks to lower Fs and higher Qts, but there's not much Xmas, so its really a mid driver like the 8PE21, which has all the goodies like copper in the gap and a massive motor, plus a cast frame.
I discovered the Beta8A by accident, using it in a 2 way with CD/WG setup i designed for a small jazz club system. Its one of the best small PA systems I've ever built and sounds much larger than it looks. The clarity and detail this little 8 inch delivers is amazing, even crossed higher than typical. Its also insanely robust and copes with alot of power without falling apart. It will do close to 120 dB/M all day long if it has enough air flow to the VC. Astounding little driver.
The 8PE21 is a step above the other, mainly when used in a horn. You can get 140 - 2000 Hz flat in the right horn with a phase plug. Its just astonishing how good it sounds at any volume level. I truly believe it has alot to do with that cone / surround recipe. Whoever makes that part is either incredibly gifted or just was insanely lucky.
Yes, I have mad respect for the designers who come up with these things. There are some excellent drivers on the market that aren't glamorous or famous, but simply sound great. Glad to know what someone else likes the Beta-8A. I promote it all the time, but it's just not popular with the DIY crowd. It should be. The 8PE21 is a driver I don't know, but will look into, for sure.
Renkus uses a version of that driver. Not sure if its identical but it would make sense if it was.
The Beta8A, 8PE21, 8M400, and 8NM610 all share a very similar cone.
I had a pair of Eminence guitar speakers with a similar color cone. Some of the best midrange I've heard.
I had a pair of Eminence guitar speakers with a similar color cone. Some of the best midrange I've heard.
Yes there are drivers just like that.The RCF L15/554k mid woofer is another speaker that just sounds really good especially for low midrange upper bass.Its all about texture I guess.That combined with the 8PE21 could be really something.
Maybe precision devices PD.123C001
https://www.precision-devices.com/products/all-products/pd-123c001/
They also make a 15" mid.
Myself I would go with the 10" PD.103NR1. Looks like a very nice mid.
https://www.precision-devices.com/products/all-products/pd-103nr1/
https://www.precision-devices.com/products/all-products/pd-123c001/
They also make a 15" mid.
Myself I would go with the 10" PD.103NR1. Looks like a very nice mid.
https://www.precision-devices.com/products/all-products/pd-103nr1/
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Narrowing radiation (polars) of loudspeakers usually lowers the "magic" in a design (though in large measure this depends on how much you narrow that pattern: where relatively "shallow" guides are less damaging to the result). It might however enhance dynamic contrast which can increase that "spooky" character (though this depends on just how loud you playback the track and the amount of *initial/resting resistance of the driver's suspension).
*in this respect then, a great many "pro" woofers often have a higher resting-resistance resulting in a common subjective phrase of: "the driver's don't come alive until they are played louder".
There are some build thread for horns for the 8PE21 around on this site already worth looking into.
Limmerhorn has one 8 inch wg if you like what you see there.
The only easily available turnkey solutions i am aware of, is to use a JBL 2169H with the phase plug and gasket assembly(130$ ish on ebay), with one of the cmcd horns.(has been discussed briefly already)
Alternatively the 2168H can be used/tried.
There is also the Autotech Seos 24-4 WG made for the 2169H CMCD (220-2000 hz ish, 90x50 seos) 109 db before corrections .77x41 cm
The 2107H closed back 6,5" on Cinema and the AM series wg's are they're other options, those are easy to test with different drivers.There's also the small PRX735 wg for 6,5s. But they might not meet your efficiency needs.
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Forget the horns... I was more curious than anything. BTW... The response graphs of Carpenters horns with the 8ep21's are amazing! if I only had "that" room!
Let me be a little more forthcoming with my intentions and "origins" of my original post. I've been tinkering around with various high effecency speakers and really liked what an Altec 7" (409) in a 2'cu cabinet did in the way of "presence" and a 3D punchy mid-bass. So much fun to listen to.
The "bigger" speakers have their own charms, but thinking that the right 12" woofer (many think the Altec 414) might be able to capture some of what that 7"er was doing and straddle that gap between the big and small Altec (Western Electric) types.
Here's a picture of my follies as my family went to the beach without me and I turned our living room into a speaker fest.
The light unfinished speakers are open baffle with 18" JBL K-151's and toggling between Altec 291's/Emilar EH500 horns and Altec 802Bs/32 Horn Xo 800 Hz (everyhting is 1st and 2nd order XO). The dark Walnut "finished" speaker and my daily driver is a WE 753 variant with 15" Jensen P15LL with Radian 475PB/Altec 32horn XO 1.2Hz. The gritty little welterweight on top is the Altec mentioned above.
With regards to the word "spooky". I guess it's my way of steering the dialogue in the direction that makes most sence to me. I understand "I heard this speaker and it sounded so real and present" instead of technical speak. I'm really just trying to find something I can copy (motivated by being cheap and nontechnical). Thanks for all the recommendations so far!
Let me be a little more forthcoming with my intentions and "origins" of my original post. I've been tinkering around with various high effecency speakers and really liked what an Altec 7" (409) in a 2'cu cabinet did in the way of "presence" and a 3D punchy mid-bass. So much fun to listen to.
The "bigger" speakers have their own charms, but thinking that the right 12" woofer (many think the Altec 414) might be able to capture some of what that 7"er was doing and straddle that gap between the big and small Altec (Western Electric) types.
Here's a picture of my follies as my family went to the beach without me and I turned our living room into a speaker fest.
The light unfinished speakers are open baffle with 18" JBL K-151's and toggling between Altec 291's/Emilar EH500 horns and Altec 802Bs/32 Horn Xo 800 Hz (everyhting is 1st and 2nd order XO). The dark Walnut "finished" speaker and my daily driver is a WE 753 variant with 15" Jensen P15LL with Radian 475PB/Altec 32horn XO 1.2Hz. The gritty little welterweight on top is the Altec mentioned above.
With regards to the word "spooky". I guess it's my way of steering the dialogue in the direction that makes most sence to me. I understand "I heard this speaker and it sounded so real and present" instead of technical speak. I'm really just trying to find something I can copy (motivated by being cheap and nontechnical). Thanks for all the recommendations so far!
