I bought the Merrill - Scilia mat on Audiogon a long, long time ago, and it's long discontinued as is the company that made it.
George Merrill offers the Gem Dandy mat these days which is also a rather good mat IMO, I use one on my older 124.
Here: RCC Record Mat
George Merrill offers the Gem Dandy mat these days which is also a rather good mat IMO, I use one on my older 124.
Here: RCC Record Mat
I would recommend the STS option, and disclose that Greg is a friend. His attention to detail and the very interesting options he can offer would put him at the top of my list of recommendations for a 124, which I would recommend over a 1200.
If you're in the U.S. or Canada, I'd second KevinKr's recommendation of STS turntables. If you're in Europe, I'd point out that HanzeHiFi (Volken here) has several restored TD124 and TD124/II in stock. I've worked with both men and know they're top of the game when it comes to restoring these turntables.
Ditto British cars. I have own both German and English cars. Both have been ultra reliable if basic maintainance done. Rust alas was the big problem. My last UK car did 13 years and looked to be dying of rust after 10 years. By pure coincidence I bought it from Tony De Banks the ERA importer of old ( Mr Verdier was ERA, French TD150 competitor with different thinking ). The English engine a Perkins which I would place up with the Garrard 401. My VW is 16 years old. To be frank it has had more problems, not enough for me to say a word against it. My local garage lads are great people. However they really don't know more than 50 % of what can be wrong with a modern car. They have one quality I really like. They say when they can't do it and do not mess it up.They are experts at the dirty stuff.
Looking at the Perkins and VW you could be looking at the Garrard 401 and TD124. Both the VW and the TD124 are harder to repair if something slightly weird happens, it will take longer to sort out. With VW it's turbo choking up and vacuum pipes ( many ) not telling the ECU what is happening. The Perkins never ever missed a beat and could be serviced in 30 minutes. It even had been designed around a cheap oil Castrol GTX which would kill the VW ( Landrover TD200/300 also, we have one that's past 350 000 miles with no work done on the engine and no real oil leaks, gets GTX every 6000 miles ). Castrol another Swindon company, very good help service. That Perkins is a standard fit to series 1 Landrovers and can enter events as original. The torque is idea with a massive fuel comsumption boost. A Perkins series one will do 36 UK MPG, some say the petrol one does 9 MPG. Divide by 1.2 for US I think. The Perkins is also a generator engine.
At Loricraft they get all the 301/401/TD124 that have been abused and in the hands of the unwise. I guess it does make it seem every turntable has been treated this way. Like a doctor only sees sick people.
Looking at the Perkins and VW you could be looking at the Garrard 401 and TD124. Both the VW and the TD124 are harder to repair if something slightly weird happens, it will take longer to sort out. With VW it's turbo choking up and vacuum pipes ( many ) not telling the ECU what is happening. The Perkins never ever missed a beat and could be serviced in 30 minutes. It even had been designed around a cheap oil Castrol GTX which would kill the VW ( Landrover TD200/300 also, we have one that's past 350 000 miles with no work done on the engine and no real oil leaks, gets GTX every 6000 miles ). Castrol another Swindon company, very good help service. That Perkins is a standard fit to series 1 Landrovers and can enter events as original. The torque is idea with a massive fuel comsumption boost. A Perkins series one will do 36 UK MPG, some say the petrol one does 9 MPG. Divide by 1.2 for US I think. The Perkins is also a generator engine.
At Loricraft they get all the 301/401/TD124 that have been abused and in the hands of the unwise. I guess it does make it seem every turntable has been treated this way. Like a doctor only sees sick people.
It was my son who helped put the whole thing together with Gradiente and SME, Chris did the spade work to hand to the legal departments. The EEC side in Spain were so helpful that the EEC rights of ownership were completed by Chris, UK accepted the EEC approval and gave our own version. USA was another story ( the people answering the phone more like checkout girls, they had 1001 reasons why we were wrong to phone them ). Brazil did the rest. Chris was asked to do and did the same tasks for Gradiente in the EEC and UK, apparently they had a legal depatment of many people to do that in the past. Like a diviorce it is possible to do it DIY, in the end it is you who will be giving the imformation. I am very pleased for Gradiente as no one could have been more generous to Loricraft. Loricraft was Loraine's lace bobbin business, Terry paid his first cheque into her account, Hence the name.
Terry called on Garrard selling power tools in the 1970's. Over the years they got to know him. Terry's first big restoration project was a TD124 from Sunshine Records in Oxford. Ironically Sunshine very close to the homes of Percy Wilson inventor of the PRC cleaning machine and Michael Gerzon the inventor of vast amounts of audio, often called Oxford's unknown Hawking. The TD124 had completely ruined motor bearings. Terry made replacement bearings. It is Loraines daily turntable from then on with SME 5 I think and is the photo in the back of Hi Fi World. It was my TD124 and was given to Terry about 1984. When he was out of work I encouraged him to start Loricraft due to the TD124. His dream of Garrard went back before that. Sunshine always had an incredible sound. They sold ECM jazz as my reason to visit.
I have a small preference for the 301/401. Some of that is the TD124 slip mat. By the very smallest of margins 301's serial numbers > 60 000 are the ones I like best. I also like the GL75. The very old 301's that get silly money I am not so sure about. Run at circa 200/100V they are very good. Mono with 10g tracking needed more torque back in the day. They suit Japan very well at 100V and hence the premium prices in Japan for the 1954 ones.
Terry called on Garrard selling power tools in the 1970's. Over the years they got to know him. Terry's first big restoration project was a TD124 from Sunshine Records in Oxford. Ironically Sunshine very close to the homes of Percy Wilson inventor of the PRC cleaning machine and Michael Gerzon the inventor of vast amounts of audio, often called Oxford's unknown Hawking. The TD124 had completely ruined motor bearings. Terry made replacement bearings. It is Loraines daily turntable from then on with SME 5 I think and is the photo in the back of Hi Fi World. It was my TD124 and was given to Terry about 1984. When he was out of work I encouraged him to start Loricraft due to the TD124. His dream of Garrard went back before that. Sunshine always had an incredible sound. They sold ECM jazz as my reason to visit.
I have a small preference for the 301/401. Some of that is the TD124 slip mat. By the very smallest of margins 301's serial numbers > 60 000 are the ones I like best. I also like the GL75. The very old 301's that get silly money I am not so sure about. Run at circa 200/100V they are very good. Mono with 10g tracking needed more torque back in the day. They suit Japan very well at 100V and hence the premium prices in Japan for the 1954 ones.
A friend of Loricraft built a 1210 with adapted 401 platter in a hardwood ( cherry ) plinth. It looks a bit like Italian turntables. He made his own arm ( he makes guns also ). I have to say the sound is very like the great turntables. It has none of the top end hash of the standard version and seems better than a SP10. Alas it is almost impossible to do what he did. It shows the motor is better than many suspect. He did no mods to the servo's. You can't contact him as he hates the internet as he can not read now write !
The JVC TT81 has the same origines and is said to be the best of the ones you might find for a nice price. Buy me one if you find two.
I'm still learning and look when I started this thread.. LOL There are a lot of people who know way more at this point than I ever will about turntables.
Nigel's comment on the slip mat (upper stamped platter) is dead on the mark - I am using one of my tables without it now and have installed a stainless steel non magnetic platter made by Mirko some time ago. With Papst on 3 phase power, strain gauge cartridge and ET-2.5 air bearing linear arm it was audibly better sounding IMO.
Nigel's comment on the slip mat (upper stamped platter) is dead on the mark - I am using one of my tables without it now and have installed a stainless steel non magnetic platter made by Mirko some time ago. With Papst on 3 phase power, strain gauge cartridge and ET-2.5 air bearing linear arm it was audibly better sounding IMO.
What I did was take a two piece cork mat and used a piece of paper and pencil to rub the shapes of the rubber discs the TD124 has, like a brass rubbing in a church. I then punched holes in the cork corresponding to the disc positions. It fits perfectly over the rubber disc which I would not remove as I like things to be original. Then the upper part fits over the modified bottom layer hiding the punched section. I then refit the original when not in use.
2 Piece Cork & Nitrile Turntable Mat - Recessed Surface to Improve Sound | eBay
2 Piece Cork & Nitrile Turntable Mat - Recessed Surface to Improve Sound | eBay
Best of luck. This week I installed a new belt from the Fla source that Kevin used. It’s a nice tight fit and now the table gets up to speed very quickly.
I cannot believe how good it sounds. Next up, I’m waiting for a new strobe window and o-ring style idler wheel from Audiosilente in Italy.
I’ve also installed a simple power line filter in the base.
I cannot believe how good it sounds. Next up, I’m waiting for a new strobe window and o-ring style idler wheel from Audiosilente in Italy.
I’ve also installed a simple power line filter in the base.
Congratulations, that's an early one - probably around 1958 or so. (Maybe even 1957)
I highly recommend the Audio Silente (Simone Luchetti) idler as being by far the quietest idler I have tried.
I would also get the MKII motor conversion kit from Audio Silente, the sintered bearing kit from Audio-Silente, and the springs from Hanze Hi-Fi (Vulcan here).
Three-in-One 20wt electric motor oil is fine for lubrication, I've fiddled a lot with other lubricants and haven't found anything that I'd consider is really better.
Depending on the condition of the main bearing you may want to consider sending it to Chris Harban at Woodsong Audio, you can mention me. Alternately you can install new bushings - particularly important if this unit has nylon bushings installed. The main bearing is tricky as there are several variations in internal bore and it can be hard to identify the right replacement bushing.
The intermediate pulley may need a new bushing, if that is the case there are several people doing it, but I am not sure who to recommend.
Lots of options for the thrust plate and assembly - the stock one basically isn't very good and should be replaced. Lots of options for ball bearing and thrust plates.
Belts.. Hanze Hi-Fi has good ones, most others are pretty hit and miss. Good NOS OEM ones are rare but very good, and recommended.
I highly recommend the Audio Silente (Simone Luchetti) idler as being by far the quietest idler I have tried.
I would also get the MKII motor conversion kit from Audio Silente, the sintered bearing kit from Audio-Silente, and the springs from Hanze Hi-Fi (Vulcan here).
Three-in-One 20wt electric motor oil is fine for lubrication, I've fiddled a lot with other lubricants and haven't found anything that I'd consider is really better.
Depending on the condition of the main bearing you may want to consider sending it to Chris Harban at Woodsong Audio, you can mention me. Alternately you can install new bushings - particularly important if this unit has nylon bushings installed. The main bearing is tricky as there are several variations in internal bore and it can be hard to identify the right replacement bushing.
The intermediate pulley may need a new bushing, if that is the case there are several people doing it, but I am not sure who to recommend.
Lots of options for the thrust plate and assembly - the stock one basically isn't very good and should be replaced. Lots of options for ball bearing and thrust plates.
Belts.. Hanze Hi-Fi has good ones, most others are pretty hit and miss. Good NOS OEM ones are rare but very good, and recommended.
Thanks Dilbert and kevinkr. After reading the tread. I purchased the springs from Hanze hi-fi. The idler wheel, MK1 to MK2 kit, new motor bushings/felts, thrust pad, and 2 belts from Audio-silente. Just waiting for them to get here now.
I was going to purchase the main bearings from ebay but the ad states that they may not fit my early MK1. So I have not figured that out yet. Maybe look for a caliper to measure what I am looking for.
m
I was going to purchase the main bearings from ebay but the ad states that they may not fit my early MK1. So I have not figured that out yet. Maybe look for a caliper to measure what I am looking for.
m
Good source of small tools and calipers:
Tooling, parts, and accessories for bench top machinists - LittleMachineShop.com
I would send the main bearing out to a specialist. I have had problems with the bearing assembly in one of mine which came out of an early TD-124. (This table was pieced back together with parts bought over time from many tables.)
STS Turntables may be willing to redo the main bearing as well.
Tooling, parts, and accessories for bench top machinists - LittleMachineShop.com
I would send the main bearing out to a specialist. I have had problems with the bearing assembly in one of mine which came out of an early TD-124. (This table was pieced back together with parts bought over time from many tables.)
STS Turntables may be willing to redo the main bearing as well.
So my main bearing looks good to me. No scratches or anything like that. I do have the nylon bushings though. Should I still have them replaced just becasue they are nylon?
what do people think about the tool from post #2052? has anybody else tried something like that to replace main spindle bearings? It looks like it would be hard to mess it up with a tool like that.
I sent an e-mail to STS about cost as well.
m
what do people think about the tool from post #2052? has anybody else tried something like that to replace main spindle bearings? It looks like it would be hard to mess it up with a tool like that.
I sent an e-mail to STS about cost as well.
m
I may try those but I ordered two from Audio-silente. They were a good deal. The original belt was pretty shiny on the inside. I flipped it around and the strobe is stable. I have not tried to talc yet.