Hi everyone, I am going to upgrade my subwoofer setup soon and would like some suggestions. My set up sort of unique, I've used a 2 way monitor with a 1" tweeter and 4" woofer, to mate with 12" subwoofers, to create a my version of 3 way. I've bought a crown CTS 1200 to power the project. The abundance of power is warranted for room correction in the lowest of the register. I'd like to stay flat down to 30hz. With my current subs plus room correction I'm pretty much there, but at the loudest of playback sessions, I can tell that the subs are being limited by xmax and the limiter of the plate amp. Hopefully thats enough said lol....oh yeah. I will be going from ported to sealed.
I've been settled on the Dayton Ultimax15 for a while now, then I discovered the loudspeaker database and eventually found these
Cerwin Vega VPRO15 - 15" Subwoofer
Cerwin Vega V15 - 15" Subwoofer
The catch is that I'll be using a 3.5ft3 no matter what. I've modeled the subs in winISD, and they all work fine. The BL product is almost double the other woofers with the Pro. The sensitivity is slightly higher than the rest, with the pro, I am springing for the PRo15.
Considering the price range and expectations, just looking for second opinions and or suggestions.
I've been settled on the Dayton Ultimax15 for a while now, then I discovered the loudspeaker database and eventually found these
Cerwin Vega VPRO15 - 15" Subwoofer
Cerwin Vega V15 - 15" Subwoofer
The catch is that I'll be using a 3.5ft3 no matter what. I've modeled the subs in winISD, and they all work fine. The BL product is almost double the other woofers with the Pro. The sensitivity is slightly higher than the rest, with the pro, I am springing for the PRo15.
Considering the price range and expectations, just looking for second opinions and or suggestions.
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I don't have nearly the experience with drivers as some of the people on here, but I'll share my experience. I have used the following setups 12"dayton DVC sealed, 15" dayton DVC sealed, 15" DVC vented, 15" dayton HF in 30hz front horn, 12" dayton HF vented, 12" dayton HF sealed in about a 2.6 cu ft enclosure. The dayton 12" HF sealed is the most tight, accurate, hard hitting bass of the bunch. The horn will go vastly louder, but not with the snap and articulation of the 12" sealed. I have a pair fed 800 watts each and it is the most satisfying bass I've experienced and plays almost insanely loud. good luck, craig
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If I were convinced to go 12" vs 15" I'd probably look into the the cerwin vega 12"s just cause, after getting the parameters closer to correct in winISD, last night, showed that the CW's 15 slightly out perform the daytons 15, but are cheaper. one thing I have against the dayton 12 is that its f3 for the 8omh or 4ohm, neither is low enough for me, in a sealed box. The Dayton ultimax, 12 and 15, have a f3 of 30 something in a sealed box. I won't veer from that spec.
Because you are using room correction, the F3 is only meaningful in its limitations on max output. ie, if you have to boost lower frequencies to match up. the 2 dayton 12's sealed in my listening room actually require attenuation from 25-30 Hz to achieve the fattest response, not boost. and max output is huge. There is no practical sacrifice in low frequency extension or dynamic range running them sealed vs vented, but the payoff in bass quality is huge with sealed.
I am listening. Heres is the next problem. My current room is a bass eater. My current 12's in a ported 3.5 box, have an f3 of like 27hz at best. The the system response including room, with no correction turns the 27hz into 55hz or so. With room correction I can get it down to 30 something, and reasonable volumes but I think the amp is reaching to much into its limits and if I play at higher volumes I am hitting the limiter....so basically I clip the amp with signal, via room correction, when having higher listening sessions.
The cerwin vega pro 15 has higher specs in the terms of xmax and bl...actually the BL goes quite high when wired in series. The dayton HF 4 ohm also happens to be the most sensitive sub of the daytons you brought up. +4db increase in sensitivity turns into a lot more bang for buck, which might be why you were so impressed? I'm just guessing. Wattage isn't lacking, I have too much, in order to easily tackle room correction for a large room. BL factor is the spec that people liken to control over the woofer. At least on paper, that cerwin vega is champ.
The cerwin vega pro 15 has higher specs in the terms of xmax and bl...actually the BL goes quite high when wired in series. The dayton HF 4 ohm also happens to be the most sensitive sub of the daytons you brought up. +4db increase in sensitivity turns into a lot more bang for buck, which might be why you were so impressed? I'm just guessing. Wattage isn't lacking, I have too much, in order to easily tackle room correction for a large room. BL factor is the spec that people liken to control over the woofer. At least on paper, that cerwin vega is champ.
Go for it! The CV might be better, I've never heard it, you never know. All I can say is that in my experience each driver has had a different character and the hf 12 so far seems king. But I'm sure it's surpassed by many others I'm unaware of. Interesting I never thought the others were lacking until I heard the hf. There are many other factors at play too, different rooms, different placement, etc, that could be biasing my different setups. You asked for reference subwoofer suggestions though, how much risk are you willing to take on an unknown driver? I'm quite skeptical that any spec like bl can account entirely for bass quality. Tough call, good luck! Cheers, Craig
You have not included possibly the most important variable - your budget! Dayton Audio drivers are great bang or the buck, but that doesn't mean they are the BEST drivers, but they sure are good for the money. The CV drivers also seem to be potentially good for the money, but that doesn't mean they are particularly good overall.
Your thread title is "REFERENCE SUB-WOOFERS SUGGESTIONS". I am not an expert on sub-woofers so I don't have any great insight, but Dayton Audio and CV (and some others) are good sub-woofers FOR THE MONEY but they are not necessarily "REFERENCE" sub-woofers.
Given some information on the PE board, you are looking more for mixing than home theater, so I'd even suggest the Dayton HF's are superior to the Ultimax's. But the CSS SDX12 is better quality bass than the Dayton or CV but obviously more money.
There are trade-offs of quality, cost, box volume, etc. but if you are just looking for REFERENCE and ignoring the other constraints I can't imagine the Ultimax or CV are the answer.
Your thread title is "REFERENCE SUB-WOOFERS SUGGESTIONS". I am not an expert on sub-woofers so I don't have any great insight, but Dayton Audio and CV (and some others) are good sub-woofers FOR THE MONEY but they are not necessarily "REFERENCE" sub-woofers.
Given some information on the PE board, you are looking more for mixing than home theater, so I'd even suggest the Dayton HF's are superior to the Ultimax's. But the CSS SDX12 is better quality bass than the Dayton or CV but obviously more money.
There are trade-offs of quality, cost, box volume, etc. but if you are just looking for REFERENCE and ignoring the other constraints I can't imagine the Ultimax or CV are the answer.
I hear you, but REFERENCE, has to do with voicing, really. Speaker system quality is more a reflection of a well thought out design, and not always the action of throwing a whole buncha money at a particular driver. Though, with certain designs, like a coaxial in particular, the ones with the best frequency response, have been the most expensive. luckily, getting flat response out a subwoofer is pretty easy.
Hah!
To be filed under: "Famous last words" 😀
KaffiMann - Throwing petrol on the bonfire since whey baq.
Sorry, but this is incorrect.
Ported boxes offer a lot more output in a frequency range about 20Hz wide, compared to a sealed box. Below the port tuning frequency, the sealed boxes win.
Having used the same driver complement and amplifiers in sealed and then ported boxes, I can say the ported boxes offer vastly more output in a useful frequency range before electrical or mechanical limitations come into play.
Chris
I missed that.
Short summary:
Proper ported boxes limit driver excursion in the lowest frequencies they are designed to reproduce, that's just how it works. The port resonates with the excited air volume, damping down driver movement, and takes over the dominant spl output.
That's one interpretation of it anyway, very simplified.
Short summary:
Proper ported boxes limit driver excursion in the lowest frequencies they are designed to reproduce, that's just how it works. The port resonates with the excited air volume, damping down driver movement, and takes over the dominant spl output.
That's one interpretation of it anyway, very simplified.
lol!
If I did it once I can do it again 😱
Totally agree. Also, a driver in a sealed doesn't always decrease group delay, rather, the opposite. At least according to my results in WinISD. It all depends on how you use it. The real benefit of using a sealed is the decrease on decay, group delay can be better or worse with a sealed, especially in my case where the box target size is fixed.
If I did it once I can do it again 😱
Totally agree. Also, a driver in a sealed doesn't always decrease group delay, rather, the opposite. At least according to my results in WinISD. It all depends on how you use it. The real benefit of using a sealed is the decrease on decay, group delay can be better or worse with a sealed, especially in my case where the box target size is fixed.
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I dont have a whole lot to add to this conversation aside from I am currently building two 1.5cf sealed subs, each loaded with a single Dayton RSS315HF-4.
I spent a great deal of time looking at options and it seemed they results were always the same, 315hf-4.
My parameters:
Size, nothing larger than 2cf. According to winISD I can get what I need with a 1.5cf cabinet.
Desired frequency response of no greater than -3db @20hz while my crossover is set at 35hz. This will not be an issue for me as I do not listen at absurd levels and these will not be used for home theater - music only system.
According to winISD I will need a small boost at 23hz, if I recall correctly.
Anyway, from everything I read and the folks at Dayton Audio (talked to them at Axpona in 2018) and all roads lead to RSS series drivers.
I spent a great deal of time looking at options and it seemed they results were always the same, 315hf-4.
My parameters:
Size, nothing larger than 2cf. According to winISD I can get what I need with a 1.5cf cabinet.
Desired frequency response of no greater than -3db @20hz while my crossover is set at 35hz. This will not be an issue for me as I do not listen at absurd levels and these will not be used for home theater - music only system.
According to winISD I will need a small boost at 23hz, if I recall correctly.
Anyway, from everything I read and the folks at Dayton Audio (talked to them at Axpona in 2018) and all roads lead to RSS series drivers.
I have no way of figuring out what you figured out.....
Is the true same for the Dayton Ultimax 15?
Is the true same for the Dayton Ultimax 15?
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Camplo, whatever you get from Bjorno, just accept it. I think he's a fair bit ahead of most of us.
Too bad the same cannot be said of cross country skiing (for Sweden at least), but it was nice to see the Fin👎ish of the French team today! Well deserved!
Had higher hopes for Russia.
Too bad the same cannot be said of cross country skiing (for Sweden at least), but it was nice to see the Fin👎ish of the French team today! Well deserved!
Had higher hopes for Russia.
I take his word for it! I meant plz don't hold me accountable for bringing counter fit money when it was given to me by the clerk out of the register
So now I'm back at the Dayton Ultimax 15 I guess. Unless those specs are fake too! What I gotta do to not receive fake specs?
If you want a Reference subwoofer then you should STRONGLY consider the RSS line of drivers. The ultimax is enticing with its long throw and fancy looking cone but its designed to move a lot of air, not necessarily doing so accurately.
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