Recommended "audiophile" speaker design at $500-1000 in parts (excl. cabinets)?

[planet10]

Just like SS executuin is important.

This amplifier is particularily good — other than low power — it sounds close to my SIT-3 and closer to it than my other tube amps.

Note that part of the recipe is no elco caps. CLCRC PS.

I don’t care about what the measured THD is, given that that is a more or less meaningless number.

dave

 

[AllenB]

but usually cannot increase the level of cancelling dips leading to some improvement but not high fidelity. (The usually is because sometimes peaks aren't minimum phase and sometimes dips are depending on how they arise).

The issue is more that zero times one hundred still equals zero.

 

[Alexium]

What do you guys think of Paul Carmody's Sunflower design? I don't know exactly why, but I'm attracted to this speaker more than others I've sifted through. I've seen recommendations on the minimum distance from the wall (18"), and I have more than that. Even the case looks simple, and the woofer can be in a sealed box which would be my preference.

 

[prairieboy]

I'm intrigued by it as well; to the point that I have all the drivers, and more than enough wood. Just need time and crossover parts.

 

[Alexium]

I'm intrigued by it as well; to the point that I have all the drivers, and more than enough wood. Just need time and crossover parts.

Do you think there's a specific reason the base enclosure is trapezoidal and not a simple right-angled box?

 

[prairieboy]

No. Aesthetics I suppose. Email Paul, he's always responded to my emails.

 

[andy19191]

What do you guys think of Paul Carmody's Sunflower design?

We return to the question of high fidelity vs audiophile. This design isn't seeking to optimise technical performance but to include attractive sound effects. I have some reservations about the attractiveness but the author is positive and in a better position to judge than me although he is understandably likely to be biased to some degree. Like many I have stood next to a constructor of an audiophile DIY speaker enthusiastically describing their attributes and simply been baffled. If you are going to opt for an audiophile design then I would suggest either hearing one first to establish that you are attracted to that kind of sound effect or accepting the risk that you may not. A neutral high fidelity design is more of a known quantity but for many may be a bit boring and uninteresting.

Perhaps i should add that it is normal and healthy for a hobbyist designing and constructing multiple speakers to have fun with some audiophile rather than high fidelity designs. More than half the designs on my to-do list exchange high fidelity for interesting/attractive sound effects to some extent. I personally have little interest in dipoles particularly when they have lumpy directivity leading to reflections with lumpy spectral content. I do have an interest in omnidirectional speakers which can sound fun, attractive and spacious albeit somewhat wrong tonally and with weaker imaging, retro speakers with large light resonant cones can sound attractively rich and lively although not neutral, a cardioid radiation pattern may actually be superior in use in real rooms to a conventional radiation pattern over the most challenging frequency range to sort out from 80 Hz upto the Schroeder frequency (although at the cost of increased price, size, complexity and reduced efficiency/raised distortion), recreating a retro design I lusted after when young, etc...

 

[Alexium]

I did not view it as a compromise on sound quality. I know the invention of a closed box design was a big leap towards better sound reproduction, but I also thought that some of the modern midrange drivers may not require air suspension to achieve low distortion.

 

[picowallspeaker]

Basically, the purpose of a box is to close the rear radiation..

 

[Alexium]

I thought the main purpose is to reduce the stiffness of the speaker cone's suspension and substitute it for the stiffness of an enclosed volume of air, which is a much more linear spring than any flexible part of the speaker.

 

[andy19191]

I did not view it as a compromise on sound quality.

Not sure compromise is the right word. The designer has chosen to deviate significantly from a smoothly controlled sound radiation pattern of a conventional high fidelity speaker. In terms of technical performance there is no giving up a bit of this to get a bit more of that. It is fundamentally different.

I know the invention of a closed box design was a big leap towards better sound reproduction, but I also thought that some of the modern midrange drivers may not require air suspension to achieve low distortion.

Not sure I wholly understand your point. The speaker is designed to spray the rear radiation from the midrange, and only the midrange, all over the front wall rather than absorbing it. This will substantially change the reflected sound field causing significant changes to what is perceived at the listening position in a room although not necessarily outside or in an anechoic chamber.

 

[Alexium]

The speaker is designed to spray the rear radiation from the midrange, and only the midrange, all over the front wall rather than absorbing it. This will substantially change the reflected sound field causing significant changes to what is perceived at the listening position in a room although not necessarily outside or in an anechoic chamber.

I understand that, but you've really made it sound like a not-so-good idea 🙂 Thank you for pointing it out and bringing me back to earth somewhat. Now I think I should get a more conventional boxed design. And maybe then build these open-back speakers to find out how they sound in comparison. Their enclosure is so simple and the speakers are quite affordable, they really look like a good choice for an inexperienced DIYer - but probably not the best sound quality for the buck, as you've explained.

 

[andy19191]

I thought the main purpose is to reduce the stiffness of the speaker cone's suspension and substitute it for the stiffness of an enclosed volume of air, which is a much more linear spring than any flexible part of the speaker.

Acoustic suspension designs of that type largely disappeared decades ago from the market. The driver's suspensions didn't become weak it was weak which was one of the disadvantages. The suspension in a modern sub/woofer designed to be used in a sealed cabinet is typically stiffer these days and will also offer a longer stroke and lower distortion if not a budget model. This is because designs have become more sophisticated in balancing nonlinearities in the suspension with nonlinearities in the magnet.

For a typical midrange driver in a sealed chamber the small stiffness of the trapped air is almost wholly irrelevant. The high pass filter in the crossover will kick in well before the driver/cabinet resonance. The function of the chamber is pretty much solely to absorb sound from the rear of the cone.

 

[Alexium]

Understood and noted, thanks for the explanation.

 

[Elfriede]

That is not so easy to answer because there is no such thing as one loudspeaker that can do everything better than all the others.
But of course there are a few favorites that hardly have any weaknesses. I include the Mona Kea:
Mona Kea – 4 Wege Referenzlautsprecher – Donhighend Audio

The H.A.V.O.F.A.S.T. (yes, 2-Way!):
H.A.V.O.F.A.S.T. Studio-H.A.V.O.F.A.S.T. Stu

And also a fairly expensive, active 3-way project, which is not documented.
If you want to hear extremely loud, something like the KO would certainly be "better" than the above:
Knock-Out-Knock-Out

If you have a relatively bare room with little furniture and hard floors, something like the HAVOFAST certainly works better than an ordinary, very good 3-way loudspeaker.
There have also been a few listeners who have heard the Mona Kea and Italian Stallion and then decided on the IS because it only costs 25% of the MK and is still very close.

Many also make the mistake of only looking at the bass data. A low F3 is not a guarantee for good bass. Because the room determines the result in the bass. Closed loudspeakers usually do not have a particularly low F3 and still often work much better in the room than bass reflex speakers with a very low F3.

One more thing about 3-way vs. 2-way:
The effort for the crossover is about twice as high for a 3-way speaker as for a 2-way speaker. In addition, the lower x-over frequency requires larger and therefore more expensive components. And an additional driver also has to be paid for. This is why 3-way speakers are about twice as expensive as 2-way speakers, even if such general statements should always be treated with caution.

But there are also exceptions, such as the 3-65, where, despite high-quality equipment, only 65 € for the driver per box are due.
Three-Sixtyfive – 3 Wege TQWT mit Dome-MT – Donhighend Audio
Only when you want to hear very loudly does the 3-65 reach its limit at some point. Otherwise it plays in much higher classes than the price would suggest.
In fact, that's a problem for many of Alex's speakers - they're so cheap that some people don't take them seriously and judge them without hearing.

Hello
Does the Italian Stallion from Donhighend Audio work at a listening distance of 2 meters. I listen mainly to classical music and jazz. The listening level is not very loud

Thank you, Christian

 

[picowallspeaker]

Usually, anything more complicated than a clock radio would project sound at two meters.

 

[ChrisABC]

$? Paul Carmody-Spitfire

https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/updates/hivil6-4r

more Spitfire

https://techtalk.parts-express.com/.../64518-paul-carmody-s-spitfire-anf-burro-subs

View attachment 1258755



Spitfire Tower
https://m.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.803345086378645.1073741861.601735219872967&type=3

posts 5,8,12
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/64878-paul-s-spitfire-kit-with-front-port

https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/floorstanding-speakers/amiga

RS225 - David's
https://www.htguide.com/forum/forum...5-8-scanspeak-d2604-833000-in-wg300-~42-litre
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Cheap
830656 MTM Parts Express 2012 Iron Driver Winner Ryan Bouma Peerless
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/...-overall-best-sounding-speaker-design-details

830656 MTM box options, tower Audio Solutions Euphony 90 -Peerless 830656 & ScanSpeak D2604
(Google Translate)

https://www.hi-fi.ru/magazine/stere...sticheskie-sistemy-audiosolutions-euphony-90/
https://soundlab.lt/Euphony 90
https://diyaudio.pl/forum/praktyczn...-audio/22745-audio-solutions-euphony-90-clone

or page 48

https://tuxdoc.com/download/klangton-2011-05pdf_pdf
http://diy-hifi.eu/dexter.html

=================================
Don HighEnd
https://www.donhighend.de/?page_id=4401

Maybelle Audio- Vietnam​

https://linhkienloadai-vn.translate...uto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp


Cheaper and not a devore clone
https://linhkienloadai-vn.translate...uto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

[Rese66]

Hello
Does the Italian Stallion from Donhighend Audio work at a listening distance of 2 meters. I listen mainly to classical music and jazz. The listening level is not very loud

Thank you, Christian

Hello Christian!

The Italian Stallion works wonderfully at a distance of 2 meters. The lower woofer only plays up to about 500Hz, so even a short distance is no problem for the IS.

Cheers, Oliver