AMP engineered their crimp terminals to exclude oxygen with high force in the crimp barrel, and medium force in the flag terminal under the rolled grab flanges. No oxygen, no oxidation of the tin plate. Read the original AMP application note. Properly torqued screw pan head over ring & fork terminals similarly exclude oxygen. ****ese copies reduce the thickness of the flanges and barrel to cut cost and do not exclude oxygen successfully. Plus ****ese flag connectors will melt out at 30 amps & 12 v. Personal experience in a car. built with Radio Shack connectors and 30 A of accessory load. Again not enough force.
I had a tin plate RCA cable go silent between preamp & power amp at 6 or 8 years. Removing & replacing fixed the problem, it scraped the oxide off. This is a suitable application for gold plate. Notice tin on one side & gold on the other leads the gold coming off from repeated insertion & removal. Plus the gold migrates under electrical current, I have read. Reason gold plate transistors were driven from the market by the US military. Even soldered on boards the gold caused a problem. I scored some 70's GE D44R2 transistors for $.20 last month with gold plate leads, because nobody else wants them. Under the medium currents of VAS & drivers in class AB amps, the gold on one side of a solder joint hasn't been a problem. My living room amplifier doesn't require the MBTF of an ICBM or fighter jet, either.
Read the deltrol relay catalog applications section about proper uses of gold plate, silver plate, tin plate, and solid copper relay contacts. Company now defunct: important documents like this should be in libraries but are not. Gold useful for "dry current" under 48 v and under 50 ma.
Last edited:
Only if the oxidation is left in place when the connection is made. The whole design of quick-disconnect terminals (if well-engineered) is to completely bypass that by cutting through the surface oxidation every time the connection is made, and keep corrosion out of the electrical contact area by keeping it gas-tight with sufficient resilient contact force.
It sounds like you've made up your mind about this, I guess I'll come back to this thread in 5-10 years if I ever put together a high-precision measuring system for this sort of thing.
I have seen no claim by any manufacturer, including TE, that the connection between the faston slide on and its mating tab is gas-tight. I already told you back in Post #55 that faston (TE) specifically does not make that claim. Yet you persist in saying that it does. So until and unless such a claim can be found this is just something that you have made up and has no legitimate basis.
Last edited:
I would mail you a copy, but the AMP binder in the basement is full of other products. I read it in a supervisor's binder, never owned a copy myself. TE.com website doesn't have a category for application notes, but does have a "contact us" page. You might see if a rep will go to their library & look it up. Studies of their strand melding crimp, etc. AMP makes a superior product to 99% of the **** on the shelves of home stores & auto supplies. They ought to brag about it.
I have no intention of expending that amount of effort to validate a claim that you are making.
If you want to provide legitimate evidence on the subject I will be glad to read it.
But don't expect someone else to jump through hoops to prove your points. It doesn't work that way.
Last edited:
Clarification. In Post #55 I discussed resistance of the connection, not whether it is gas-tight. However, the comment still applies. TE makes no claims that the connection with faston slide connectors is gas-tight. None.
Crimping is on pause. I closed up the boxes to paint them. I am still building out my garage and have yet to get to the paint phase. I plan to paint them the same color as the walls (medium gray). I am going for a farmhouse style media room.
I do not want to open them up before the cabinets are finished because it may be hard to get them sealed up again. I sealed them from the inside before I attached the baffles.
I also need to have someone over to polish the concrete floor before I paint the walls. So probably a few weeks before I can get to it.
I may try some practice crimps this weekend.
Attachments
https://datasheet.octopart.com/640903-1-TE-Connectivity-datasheet-11084604.pdf
What more do you want?
As for contact resistance, Faston terminals are generally rated for 5 milliohms or less. Around the same as many other gold-plated connectors as well.
This proves nothing about your claim.
Back in Post #35 you made this statement:
"Moreover, with the operating principle of these quick connect terminals (the sliding action is supposed to create a gas-tight, vibration-resistant contact point), the gold plating is largely irrelevant."
What you have shown now is very nice marketing talk about high contact forces, but nowhere does it claim the connection is gas-tight. That is something that only you have claimed, not the manufacturers of the connectors themselves.
So please quit throwing spec sheets out that don't prove your case. It's a waste of time for everybody.
Back in Post #35 you made this statement:
"Moreover, with the operating principle of these quick connect terminals (the sliding action is supposed to create a gas-tight, vibration-resistant contact point), the gold plating is largely irrelevant."
What you have shown now is very nice marketing talk about high contact forces, but nowhere does it claim the connection is gas-tight. That is something that only you have claimed, not the manufacturers of the connectors themselves.
So please quit throwing spec sheets out that don't prove your case. It's a waste of time for everybody.
Their statement does not claim a gas-tight connection. Nor does it claim complete prevention of oxidation and corrosion from forming.
It only sets out a goal, but there is no claim of meeting it. They have very carefully worded it to say "These force must be" instead of “These forces are”. That's a huge difference
It’s marketing double-speak.
I repeat once more. Nowhere does TE claim a gas-tight connection. Only you are claiming it.
It only sets out a goal, but there is no claim of meeting it. They have very carefully worded it to say "These force must be" instead of “These forces are”. That's a huge difference
It’s marketing double-speak.
I repeat once more. Nowhere does TE claim a gas-tight connection. Only you are claiming it.
Last edited:
And to be perfectly honest I don’t currently have them in my system either. I just used what came with the drivers from the distributor.
However, I’m now thinking of replacing what I have with gold plated fastons as a result of this discussion. The cost difference between garden variety tin plated fastons and gold plated versions is so small, a few dollars at the most, that it’s not even worth worrying about.
I doubt that there will be any audible difference initially. But over time if the tin plate does oxidize there could perhaps be a difference. I can’t prove there will be a difference that you can hear, but some people think it could happen. So I look at the gold plate as just a simple matter of insurance and one less thing that you have to worry about.
Anyhow, I’m glad to end this discussion. I think we have both spent more than enough time with it. Peace.
However, I’m now thinking of replacing what I have with gold plated fastons as a result of this discussion. The cost difference between garden variety tin plated fastons and gold plated versions is so small, a few dollars at the most, that it’s not even worth worrying about.
I doubt that there will be any audible difference initially. But over time if the tin plate does oxidize there could perhaps be a difference. I can’t prove there will be a difference that you can hear, but some people think it could happen. So I look at the gold plate as just a simple matter of insurance and one less thing that you have to worry about.
Anyhow, I’m glad to end this discussion. I think we have both spent more than enough time with it. Peace.
Many years ago I came across a paper from some German technical university that had done research about these simple connectors. They wanted to find out what service interval was requiert to keep them functional. They tested standard low cost, industrial quality Faston connectors. China sh*t was not around at that time or no problem, like today.To their surprise, instead of the supposed increase in contact resistance over time, it actually dropped, the longer the connector was in use. Time and vibration even improved the situation.
So any "cleaning service" worsened the resistance instead of improving anything.. They changed the whole perspective of their research after this initial result and measured a very high contact pressure they had not expected. It prevented corrosion under normal conditions, dug into the flat side contact and led to some kind of cold welding in a microscopical region.
Before I read this report, these simple Faston connectors always seemed cheap and low quality to me. Today I know they are very reliable, done right and used inside their limits.
If I do new audio installations, I use the simple, naked variety, crimp them, solder and put a hot shrink over them to prevent breaking at the brittle solder point. Actually I never had a problem reported, after countless installations. On the other hand, most electrical problems with aftermarket installations I had to repair, came from the crimped connections coming loose or falling apart. Seems like a lot of so-called "Pro's" don't know how to make a functional crimp. If I have to use crimps for repairs where soldering is not allowed, I use the ratchet type of crimper and a hand press with changeable inserts for the larger ones.
I noticed something strange, on very old cars (around 1960-1975) where Fastons where used. Factory contacts made from brass lose their spring pressure over time, as the material ages. This is without corrosion or high load / temperature. The brass looks perfectly fine, sometimes a little bit red, like copper. As long as you do not touch them they work, once pulled off you can not reconnect them, as the spring pressure is completely gone and can not be improved, some even break. You want to fix a simple, single fault and end up crimping new connectors to any wire in reach...Later cars have tin coated contacts that (until now) do not show such problems.Inside very old speaker cabinets from the same time period, I found the same type of problematic connectors. Time for a service inside your Altec, maybe...
The "gold or no gold question" is somehow useless. If the contact underneath is of good quality, gold will not make it worse imo. Many people like the look and expect the installation to be of higher quality. Marketing works. Without gold plating, a little electric grease will work just perfect for long time conservation under normal conditions.
So any "cleaning service" worsened the resistance instead of improving anything.. They changed the whole perspective of their research after this initial result and measured a very high contact pressure they had not expected. It prevented corrosion under normal conditions, dug into the flat side contact and led to some kind of cold welding in a microscopical region.
Before I read this report, these simple Faston connectors always seemed cheap and low quality to me. Today I know they are very reliable, done right and used inside their limits.
If I do new audio installations, I use the simple, naked variety, crimp them, solder and put a hot shrink over them to prevent breaking at the brittle solder point. Actually I never had a problem reported, after countless installations. On the other hand, most electrical problems with aftermarket installations I had to repair, came from the crimped connections coming loose or falling apart. Seems like a lot of so-called "Pro's" don't know how to make a functional crimp. If I have to use crimps for repairs where soldering is not allowed, I use the ratchet type of crimper and a hand press with changeable inserts for the larger ones.
I noticed something strange, on very old cars (around 1960-1975) where Fastons where used. Factory contacts made from brass lose their spring pressure over time, as the material ages. This is without corrosion or high load / temperature. The brass looks perfectly fine, sometimes a little bit red, like copper. As long as you do not touch them they work, once pulled off you can not reconnect them, as the spring pressure is completely gone and can not be improved, some even break. You want to fix a simple, single fault and end up crimping new connectors to any wire in reach...Later cars have tin coated contacts that (until now) do not show such problems.Inside very old speaker cabinets from the same time period, I found the same type of problematic connectors. Time for a service inside your Altec, maybe...
The "gold or no gold question" is somehow useless. If the contact underneath is of good quality, gold will not make it worse imo. Many people like the look and expect the installation to be of higher quality. Marketing works. Without gold plating, a little electric grease will work just perfect for long time conservation under normal conditions.
