Bear, you are totally correct in your 5x number. Many years ago, I worked at Infinity, when we were a small, struggling speaker company, and we were trying to offer value for money by cutting that down to 4-1/2 times. The 1001 retailed for $149 each, was a 12" 2-way with front and back tweeters. Cost more than $30 in parts, and we weren't making much...
There is no money to be made period. People don't want to spend the amount of money necessary in order to buy a really good piece of equipment. People want cheap period.
Or the badge that says M^%$#@!! or other name brand. It's really too sad since there are so many really good small builders out there. People don't want to take chances and spend $1500 on an unknown builder, when in fact these are probably better amps. If you look at an unknown builder on ebay, others will pop up under the listing. Clicking on these and seeing gut shots is incredible. The build quality on most of these is first rate.
There is no obvious infringement in that listing. If the amp used a name that Fender had a current trademark on they could sue. If Fender still has valid DESIGN patents on the "look and feel" of the black face amp design (likely all expired) they could sue. There might be an issue with the font used in the silkscreen of the name (very similar to Fender's), so Fender could sue.
Fender (or whoever actually owns the name / company now has lawyers on staff. I'm sure they have a team of people scouring the internet looking for infringement, and stomping out the major threats to their legal entity. There is probably a spreadsheet somewhere ranking the severity of these threats, and one or two knockoff's on Ebay will never make it to the top of the target list.
Tubelab DID however make it to the number one position on a small company's hit list resulting in me receiving a threatening document from their legal company who has "fifty lawyers on staff". My lawyer said that a lawyer on staff ALWAYS beats a lawyer on retainer regardless of who is right!
I am no longer allowed to use the word "Simple" along with the common two letter abbreviation for "Single Ended" to describe one of my products.
This was close to true 30 years ago, and may still be true today if you go about business the way it was done 30 years ago. Read the Schiit story. Read it again, and understand it.
You CAN be successful IF you contain costs, TRULY UNDERSTAND what your TOTAL product costs are, AND what it TRULY COSTS to sell, ship, and SUPPORT your product.
By the old "build, stock, warehouse, distribute, advertise / market, retail store" method, 5X was about right, considering that the retail store took 40%, warehousing and distribution, another 10 to 20%, marketing can be a wild card, and don't forget warrantee and returned product costs.
Once you truly understand these numbers, you can work successfully on 2X total rolled "working product in the happy customer's hands" costs. The only way to get these costs under control is to go direct to the customer, and handle it all yourself. Do this for a while with one or two simple shippable products to see how it all works before launching into a full mega head / stack amp series.
You will never compete with China. Period.
With that said pick a demographic (rich dumb people) and run with it. Sell them beautiful $h!t that works that they can't get from anyone else but you.
With that said pick a demographic (rich dumb people) and run with it. Sell them beautiful $h!t that works that they can't get from anyone else but you.
Like a restaurant, you will not start out competing with McDonalds. And if you want to go into the business, you wouldn't start by building something like an Olive Garden. Even a food truck, popular as they now are, is not something for a rookie to hop into. Learn to cook, learn to cook commercially, then learn to sell it.
Just like an amp.
Just like an amp.
I'm no expert, by any stretch, but this certainly looks like a clean build. But I don't think this guy will sell his amp. For one thing he's lacking any sound demos. No way I'm buying an amp I can't hear. And then he has this, "I dont get too many amps out so heres someones chance to get a great amp without dropping a grand or more. "
Is he a famous amp builder? I have no idea. But he offers no credentials. Most guitarists probably don't know many boutique amp builders by name. I don't recognize the name. So how would I know if his amp is worth buying?
But it could be an amazing amp.
He should probably read this thread 🙂
The amp is very clean built, as said above.
It also probably does sound very good, being based on killer sounding amps, the builder should be very unexperienced to botch it, but I have no visible reason to think so.
That said, it looks quite amateurish, based on the poor homemade front panel , probably Letraset or similar labelling, no pot scales, no indication on the power and standby switches .... does he actually say "volum" and "trebl"?
Can't even read the "cut" label and worst of all there's NO brand, which is failing Marketing 101 on the first question.
He should add a laser engraved panel at least.
It should be called "something" , at least the builder's surname or something.
Also by offering it without cabinet he's cutting off 95% of customers who just want to buy, plug and play.
Given these problems, $550 is very expensive, and much more than those "a grand" amps he complains about.
Just look at these cool "Siegmund" amplifier cabinets, I bet he gets customers interested even without sound demos or gut views, just on looks .
Siegmund Sound King | 300B Tube Guitar Amplifier Handmade
It also probably does sound very good, being based on killer sounding amps, the builder should be very unexperienced to botch it, but I have no visible reason to think so.
That said, it looks quite amateurish, based on the poor homemade front panel , probably Letraset or similar labelling, no pot scales, no indication on the power and standby switches .... does he actually say "volum" and "trebl"?
Can't even read the "cut" label and worst of all there's NO brand, which is failing Marketing 101 on the first question.
He should add a laser engraved panel at least.
It should be called "something" , at least the builder's surname or something.
Also by offering it without cabinet he's cutting off 95% of customers who just want to buy, plug and play.
Given these problems, $550 is very expensive, and much more than those "a grand" amps he complains about.
Just look at these cool "Siegmund" amplifier cabinets, I bet he gets customers interested even without sound demos or gut views, just on looks .
Siegmund Sound King | 300B Tube Guitar Amplifier Handmade
In other words, it comes down to marketing, getting your name out there. Build quality is only one thing. Read my post #3
I agree. Boutique amps are where it's at, if anyone expects to actually make money. And even in that market, it could be difficult.
jeff
To me that ebay listing looks OK wiring wise but it's unfinished as-is. That is why it's not a brand name or even boutique, more like home made as part time hobby. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but just take it for what it is. The OP is planning on finished cabinets, logo design and hopefully a good marketing plan and decent price point. Can you do a fair price for yourself and the customer? What you can live with versus what they are willing to pay?
FWIW as a comparison, handwired Marshall reissue 2245THW is 4 grand list. So (example) if you are building JTM45 copies and somebody wants you to hand build one for under $1500 well, they can pop off to Ceriatone and get a fully built one for $1K (plus shipping). You will need to look at your target market, hopefully finding a nice niche and price/profit point.
And those speaker cabs that you are planning to do, could be the money maker. I would not underestimate that as a good way to get going on sales.
FWIW as a comparison, handwired Marshall reissue 2245THW is 4 grand list. So (example) if you are building JTM45 copies and somebody wants you to hand build one for under $1500 well, they can pop off to Ceriatone and get a fully built one for $1K (plus shipping). You will need to look at your target market, hopefully finding a nice niche and price/profit point.
And those speaker cabs that you are planning to do, could be the money maker. I would not underestimate that as a good way to get going on sales.
You are not a businessman. You will fail. Make sure you are prepared to lose whatever capital is wrapped up in the business.
You are making a classic error in thinking that business is all about manufacturing. Manufacturing is largely irrelevant to the kind of skills which will actually create a profitable enterprise.
The first three rules of business are:
1. Marketing.
2. Marketing.
3. More of the above.
I'm actually shocked that you had to ask if you can sell your amps. If you had done your market research you would be able to lecture us about market segmentation and the pros and cons of targetting different niches.
This is a trainwreck in the making - but not the Ken Fischer kind. First find out how to run a business, maybe do a course, then work through a detailed business plan to see if you've got a viable idea.
I say no...it's 2015...As cool as that would be...it's just not cool anymore/demand or anything anyone is interested in anymore.
except older generation's obviously....My generation/Younger it's not something very interested in I guess.
except older generation's obviously....My generation/Younger it's not something very interested in I guess.
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I'm going to have to go with AudioFreak88 on this. As much as I would love to do the same thing, I think the truth is that the market is already flooded with boutique amps and I suspect most of the boutique amp makers are barely scraping by. I think there are a handful that have a solid foothold. If, somehow, you can get some stars to use your amps, you might have a chance, but other than that, I think this ship has sailed.
Yeah pretty much..have to agree...You gotta Realize too back then it was a relatively new thing/multiple different sounds/styles....And most People like My Generation/younger are like Oh that's old/don't care/not interested....I don't know...
Or many just see it as a thing of the Past/move on, interested in other things who knows...but there is no way the demand would get like that again. There's already a Flood/TONS of amps out there....
Try to think more out of Necessity comes Creativity, trying to do different things/something new etc that's whats going capture a Market Supply/Demand etc.
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Ofcourse you can. . But I would not start up a company and build 10 amps. You'll have to keep your day job. Grow organically. bla bla ba. Even then the odds are stacked against you. That said:
I've lost count of companies who have become successful in the space of time I've pondered doing something. Ofcourse I don't know how many have failed. But this is no different in any line of business. But that is mostly in hifi not guitar amps. (An even smaller market)
I've lost count of companies who have become successful in the space of time I've pondered doing something. Ofcourse I don't know how many have failed. But this is no different in any line of business. But that is mostly in hifi not guitar amps. (An even smaller market)
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It's possible, I just think it's a real long shot. The problem is that the market is saturated. It's like trying to be a rock star. There are tons of great musicians out there who are never going to become famous, precisely because there are tons of them out there and only a handful can get famous. A lot of the ones that do get famous are just cases of being in the right place at the right time. If you had tried to get into the boutique amp business 15-20 years ago, I think your odds would have be significantly better (though still pretty slim).
Yeah it's like Trying to be a Rocker alright haha and yes the market just isn't there anymore.....Who cares about the Fame...Why would you even want that...I sure as hell don't/wouldn't because that's like polar opposite of everything about me...Actually extremely Withdrawn/avoidant/shy/awkard by nature and I don't know why...so yeah would rack hell with me/Anxieties etc....So no I don't/never understood the Fame game with it all...
Business/Fame/Money/whatever other reason etc all that...Instead of the real reason actual Hobby/enjoyment of it.
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Making money and and enjoying yourself are supposed to be mutually exclusive. Keep your day job. Stay frugal (ie, keep the amp building to a few $k a year), invest wisely. Avoid all debt completely. When you've amassed enough assets to live for the rest of your life without any additional income (3 million ought to do it, maybe can get away with half that if you have no responsibilities) THEN launch your amp "business" - one at a time.
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