I see no sense in systematized test procedures for something that is as individual as an audio system.
I know too many people that will not even listen more than 5 seconds to a speaker if it is build in raw MDF.
On the other hand, those guys will be fascinated if you screw a 3€ full range speaker in a cabinet made from some rose wood and connect it with a 1" thick high voltage wire.
So what is the system behind that, if people make up their mind about an audio system without even listening to it?
Go to some store that still sells HIFI components and watch people "testing" amplifiers. You will see that most men will lift an amp (or speaker) they show interest in, if they think no one watches. They equal weight to quality.
I could go on with this list of audio stupidity for pages.
Remember the Linn record player sales man putting a snippet of paper under one edge? Legions of audiophiles could hear the difference...
Did you ever listen to speaker systems in a large shop? Switching from one set to the other? Did you realize that any speaker not playing was in fact a bass trap? Still you could hear bass, quite well? Now, how can you be so stupid to believe a "bass trap" in your home could magically suck away the mode of your listening room?
Then there are even people fabulating about the swing in and swing out of the human ear, needing ten seconds to adjust to a new sound?
Do I have to make a brake of ten seconds after every word, when I talk to you? Otherwise you will not understand what I say? Really?
By the way, after 5 seconds you have forgotten most of a speakers sound signature. Surprise!
Now start to build a test system.
I know too many people that will not even listen more than 5 seconds to a speaker if it is build in raw MDF.
On the other hand, those guys will be fascinated if you screw a 3€ full range speaker in a cabinet made from some rose wood and connect it with a 1" thick high voltage wire.
So what is the system behind that, if people make up their mind about an audio system without even listening to it?
Go to some store that still sells HIFI components and watch people "testing" amplifiers. You will see that most men will lift an amp (or speaker) they show interest in, if they think no one watches. They equal weight to quality.
I could go on with this list of audio stupidity for pages.
Remember the Linn record player sales man putting a snippet of paper under one edge? Legions of audiophiles could hear the difference...
Did you ever listen to speaker systems in a large shop? Switching from one set to the other? Did you realize that any speaker not playing was in fact a bass trap? Still you could hear bass, quite well? Now, how can you be so stupid to believe a "bass trap" in your home could magically suck away the mode of your listening room?
Then there are even people fabulating about the swing in and swing out of the human ear, needing ten seconds to adjust to a new sound?
Do I have to make a brake of ten seconds after every word, when I talk to you? Otherwise you will not understand what I say? Really?
By the way, after 5 seconds you have forgotten most of a speakers sound signature. Surprise!
Now start to build a test system.
I've got 2 systems that would prove what you're saying since what I hear is not easily described today. The parts DON'T MATTER to a listener other than for bragging rights, much more important to the designer. We are talking as designers in this forum.
There are getting to be more parts all the time which means the individual parts support the whole. If someone finds they like listening to parts and there are no parameters currently that see a difference it doesn't always make a reviewer a liar. The problem is there are a lot of liars/ scammers and who do we trust?
The challenge is at some point for someone will look for, then find new ways of measuring. Then we get new gurus to follow.
An interesting example.
I walked into a local audio shop decades ago when a system with Klipshorn's hooked up to good equipment (they sounded good to me) that were being demoed. I was hooked on audio then. It wasn't about measurements.
Today I expect I would still like the same system I heard. Did that opinion count? Yes, because I paid more attention to what was there.
Reviewers say they like, even if it isn't measured. For some it's a scam, others a hint that something new needs to be measured.
How many, few, transistors does it take to make a power amplifier with acceptable performance?
I would say 5-6 transistors.
What do you say?
I would say 5-6 transistors.
What do you say?
install a blinded random switch and write a diary of your subjective impressions
Here I would start specifying: quiet, medium, loud, large rooms, small rooms, speakers with high efficiency, with low efficiency, loud sources, quiet sources - and so on.
My general advice would be: as few as possible, as many as necessary;-) I usually listen with just one transistor. But if I want to make very loud, I sometimes use 4 in parallel;-) And if the sound is not the top priority, then it can also be two or three or four in series or even pp systems. That's roughly how I would answer.
There are also well-intentioned people who don't really know as much as they think about a given subject. How do you know if you can trust them?
Then there are experts who disagree with each other on certain points, what about them?
My point is there is no such thing as absolute certainty. There are estimates of probability, but sometimes only rough estimates. There may also be an option to defer judgement because of uncertainty.
Historically, that hasn't worked very well. You may figure out how to measure some effect, but the "gurus" often deny it can be audible. You see, there are some known thresholds of hearing for certain types of audible characteristics. The threshold number is an estimate of an average value for a population. Usually it is assumed there is a gaussian distribution (and the threshold is in the middle of that distribution), but the tails are rarely carefully studied to see how good the assumption really is. In any case some people are on one side of the other of a distribution. Usually they will accept if they can't hear something if it has been heavily studied and a threshold and distribution are generally accepted. However, if someone comes along with something new or as yet not generally accepted thing to listen for, then the people who can't hear it will deny it is possible for it to be audible and demand extensive, expensive, time-consuming research to "prove" its audibility.
To further complicate things, sometimes people will claim that something like cables can have a sound, but things like cables don't have a sound by themselves. It depends on the circuitry they are connected to interacting with the cable in some way (or in multiple ways) for some audible effect to be produced.
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I advise all of us, including these people and you, to carry out the above-mentioned key experiment. When I write about systematization, I mean "scientificity". We will see which subjective quirks or which objective and physical foundations are imaginary or to what extent they are relevant in "audio". Most people will only realize that it is a key experiment once they have carried it out in practice. Before that, there is no discussion about audio;-)
"Understand" audio systems;-)
I know, you know that is nonsens;-)
Knowledge can be edited when found to be in error. Belief is read only.
Acceptable is subjective. 5-6 would be good for a pair of high SPL 3" (bluetooth speakers) drivers.
The smallest pair of 40-80W 87dB bookshelf speakers would need maybe to have a 5-6 device IPS/VAS plus 4 more for a decent EF2 OS.
Amp 1 - (below) @ 30 years of use , a few mV offset and would sound MORE than acceptable (with good speakers).
Amp 2 - below is 34 years old , new silver micas for compensation / "MUSE" audio caps - HQ PS. Way more than "acceptable".
Running some bigger speakers , very "acceptable" , except for full volume (not enough headroom - 80W peaks).
Just 6 devices exempting the EF2 output !
Some super efficient loudspeakers I've seen @ 95dB+ , a 4-6 device class A (Pass SIT type) circuit is actually preferred.
You have to listen to the particular speaker/amp combo to determine a good match .... many different music types.
"Acceptable" would be any modern IC chipamp running cap- coupled with a single supply. Just 1 part.
OS
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sometimes I like to think - though it's a beautiful hobby - all these discussions lead into a dead end. every person and his/her ears/brain are individual. and from
a theory viewpoint all audio gear is imperfect.
and then there is age-related hearing loss.
we people above 30 years could not participate in HiFi discussions since the effects of our hearing loss are so dramatic:
a theory viewpoint all audio gear is imperfect.
and then there is age-related hearing loss.
we people above 30 years could not participate in HiFi discussions since the effects of our hearing loss are so dramatic:
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Faith is the opposite of knowledge, because faith is needed only when you don't know...
A person who can only perceive 500 Hz to 2 kHz will still hear. And music and a music system will also be part of his everyday perception. And he will also hear differences between different parts. And if I play a complex signal, like music, and take out the high frequencies from 16 kHz, it will recognize it. This graphic does not correspond to the highly complex process of hearing. The ear is first and foremost a difference perceiver (example: reproduce psu experiment, above).
In addition, we hear with the entire organism. We are not even aware of this: not only is the entire organism mechanically set into vibration, these vibrations also modulate the currents of the "nervous system". Example dentist - not only the electromagnetic differences caused by friction, for example, but also the mechanical vibrations modulate your power grid: pain;-). And also ear as membrane or skin as membrane or hair as transducer and so on. And perhaps we can go even further.
By the way: a 10 Hertz oscillation from the WLAN router can also be detected in the organism after 24 hours. Attention with the EMF: Humans are also antennas for every imaginable EMF garbage and noise, which can lead to collapse and death.
This idea of hearing and frequencies, see picture, is a highly simple and undeveloped one. It should not be taken as a basis in audio.
Here is a 6 transistors amplifier.
It has 0.001% THD and max power is 25 Watt into 8 Ohm.
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I know that the vast majority of tweeters, regardless of their price, are built in a way that makes them play very unclear and distorted. Then there are highly complex crossovers in front, some fat strands, a thick PP power amplifier, or two, or three, an unnecessary preamp... The majority believe they have a clean sound, but just a few simple handles would make them wonder what kind of garbage they've crammed into their booth;-)