I hope this won’t open another can of worms but let’s say some solid skinny wire (24 gauge or so) is used for internal cabinet wiring. Now let’s hook those cabinets up to the amp using “standard” 16 gauge stranded wire. Electrically (and/or acoustically) speaking, what would happen to the signal on the wire? If most people aren’t aware of (or don’t have access to) the same wire as used by the speaker manufacturer will different internal and external wiring make much of a difference?
Here's my attempt at a serious answer.
Electrically, the alternating current (and therefore the signal) would be the same in the thin wire as it is in the thick wire since they are connected in series.
Acoustically (or audibly) there would be little or no difference given the shortness of the internal wiring.
Hi Galu,
I agree unless the wire begins to heat up. At that point the resistance of the thin wire will rise and possibly then reach an equilibrium until the average power changes where it will either heat or cool from that point. So the resistance of the thin wire would be a variable.
Hi CraigSu,
Whether you hear it or not is the open question, but no equipment damage should result. It is reasonably common in cheaper speakers, especially in store brand named speakers (made for that store). It isn't optimal, how's that for an answer?
-Chris
I agree unless the wire begins to heat up. At that point the resistance of the thin wire will rise and possibly then reach an equilibrium until the average power changes where it will either heat or cool from that point. So the resistance of the thin wire would be a variable.
Hi CraigSu,
Whether you hear it or not is the open question, but no equipment damage should result. It is reasonably common in cheaper speakers, especially in store brand named speakers (made for that store). It isn't optimal, how's that for an answer?
-Chris
Every audio website I've been on that starts a thread about wire has gone on endlessly with all sorts of jibberish, myths, and personal preferences. Thick wire, thin wire, oxygen-free, expensive sheathing, brand names galore, gauges, strands, and on and on.... including the infamous "coathanger blind test" discussion...
My conclusion is - if you live in a house/apartment, and your speakers are within sight distance as you stand by your stereo system, just use the damn 16 gauge zip wire and enjoy the music already. You're not going to hear a damn difference from fancy wire, unless it's all in your head.
My conclusion is - if you live in a house/apartment, and your speakers are within sight distance as you stand by your stereo system, just use the damn 16 gauge zip wire and enjoy the music already. You're not going to hear a damn difference from fancy wire, unless it's all in your head.
Since the 24 gauge is such a shorter distance (each length of it maybe a foot or less), it shouldn't make much difference.
But then I really like to know. A quick google tells me 24 gauge is 25 ohms per 1000 feet:
Electrical Wire Gauges
That's 0.05 ohm for two feet. This will probably drop the speaker output by (just guessing) 0.01dB over using 16 gauge wire inside the cabinet. There may be experts who can claim to hear that little a difference, but I don't believe them.
I'd still go with 12 gauge because it's still less than a dollar a foot, but it's hard to argue against 16 gauge being "probably good enough."
Let's put it this way....
A "UL Approved" 16 gauge extension cord for 120VAC is around 6 or 9 feet long, and RATED to handle at LEAST 12 amps.
Twelve Amps..... at 120 volts.
An outdoor electric lawn mower extension cord is maybe 14 gauge.... and 50 feet long!
I use one when I mow my grass for god sakes.
Now, 120 volts and 12 amps is never going to passed out of a typical home amplifier to speakers....... right?
Unless, of course, there is something seriously wrong with that amp.
And the typical home amplifier usually has speaker fuses of around 2 to 4 amps which would blow with a short circuit.
So why would anyone want any wire larger gauge, unless they're running it 50+ feet to a speaker system.
Overkill is goofy in that respect.
a big 150 watts woofer has a 34 gage coil, which is connected to the cone, it runs straight for a good centimeter to 1 to 3 inches for underhung VC.
So, this little 34 gage wire pose a serious mind problem to 'speaker wires' addicts.
It is like in the XO, with big 10 watt resistors... a 0.5 watt works alright in many places in a XO, a 20 volt caps is also perfect, not going to blow unless you play super loud for long time in hot settings.
So, this little 34 gage wire pose a serious mind problem to 'speaker wires' addicts.
It is like in the XO, with big 10 watt resistors... a 0.5 watt works alright in many places in a XO, a 20 volt caps is also perfect, not going to blow unless you play super loud for long time in hot settings.
I'm still using Cat5 with half the wires going to pos and the other half to neg on my mains. My low end is just using cheap speaker wire from Home Depot 14gage. All my wire runs are under 15 feet or so.
Been to Dave's a few times way back, about when the first Frugel-Horn was being developed and still in the testing and tweaking stage.
Dave has a nice room in that it's not just the layout of the listening space which is rather generous, but also there's lots of stuff in there to break up soundwaves etc.
I remember my first visit well, it was my introduction to the Fullrange driver approach. Dave spent a few hours just me and him going over different combos of speakers and cabs etc. Everything sounded quite remarkable really. I loved the first pair we listen to which I think were some old Fostex Alnico drivers. If I remember correctly everything we listen to was with single strands of Cat5, a valve amp ( Baby Huey? not sure?) and no sub etc.
Anyhow I'm not a cable Junkie and I like the cheap stuff for cabling. If people could spend some time at Dave's over there at the mountain I'm sure you'd enjoy some nice sounds and warm hospitality.
In closing some of the small drivers were sure creating pretty decent sound for what their weight class would permit, also the cabinets they were in helped of course, plus amp, wires, source etc. I'd add a few subs to that experience for my tastes, and Dave had one but it was off while we were evaluating which was good as it was just very pure with the main drivers etc, still quite impressive though.
Cheers!
Been to Dave's a few times way back, about when the first Frugel-Horn was being developed and still in the testing and tweaking stage.
Dave has a nice room in that it's not just the layout of the listening space which is rather generous, but also there's lots of stuff in there to break up soundwaves etc.
I remember my first visit well, it was my introduction to the Fullrange driver approach. Dave spent a few hours just me and him going over different combos of speakers and cabs etc. Everything sounded quite remarkable really. I loved the first pair we listen to which I think were some old Fostex Alnico drivers. If I remember correctly everything we listen to was with single strands of Cat5, a valve amp ( Baby Huey? not sure?) and no sub etc.
Anyhow I'm not a cable Junkie and I like the cheap stuff for cabling. If people could spend some time at Dave's over there at the mountain I'm sure you'd enjoy some nice sounds and warm hospitality.
In closing some of the small drivers were sure creating pretty decent sound for what their weight class would permit, also the cabinets they were in helped of course, plus amp, wires, source etc. I'd add a few subs to that experience for my tastes, and Dave had one but it was off while we were evaluating which was good as it was just very pure with the main drivers etc, still quite impressive though.
Cheers!
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If at a private session rather than one of the early DIY Fests, that tube amp was likely either one of “our” early El Cheapos - EL84 stereo P/P from trashed Scott 222(?) integrateds, or RH84 mono-blocks, or the less successful EL34 big brother. As far as I remember, we never had a Baby Huey or Red Light Special, but then there was a $hit-ton going on at those first few Fests.
Neither of those, althou i have all teh LEDs for a RLD. We had a derivation of El Cheap (built on the Scott).
dave
dave
Chris, Yes it probably was one of the El Cheapo based diy amps that Dave had going, I couldn't remember exactly the name or if it even had one. Baby Huey rang a bell, but I think that's just because I saw it quite a lot being discussed at the Decware Forums back in the day, and here at DIY as well.
What ever electronics that were in play that day from source to cone sounded pretty darn sweet to me. Man that was a long time ago now, time goes by way too fast!
Cheers,
Dave.
Edit: Yes that may have been it Dave that you show in the pic, not sure though. Lots of time has passed since then. I didn't forget how good everything sounded though. That was a fun day for me when we first met and I was invited over, and we then spent a few hours that afternoon listening to various combinations of drivers and cabs.
What ever electronics that were in play that day from source to cone sounded pretty darn sweet to me. Man that was a long time ago now, time goes by way too fast!
Cheers,
Dave.
Edit: Yes that may have been it Dave that you show in the pic, not sure though. Lots of time has passed since then. I didn't forget how good everything sounded though. That was a fun day for me when we first met and I was invited over, and we then spent a few hours that afternoon listening to various combinations of drivers and cabs.
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As best as I can remember there two of those “Scott organ donor” designs built, but power transformer went Chernobyl on one - the OPTs survived and were migrated to my Tubelab P/P build - but the one shown may still be operational.
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