Toxic would be hyperbole. The forum behaviour is very typical regarding bullying, vampirism, etc., all those wonderful online social behaviours.
The one behaviour we see here that is more novel is clandestine commercial interests. That is actually the most sinister. I'm sure it exists on other forums as well, just none of the other ones I frequent.
The one behaviour we see here that is more novel is clandestine commercial interests. That is actually the most sinister. I'm sure it exists on other forums as well, just none of the other ones I frequent.
Those comments didn't equate to pedophile. I certainly didn't read them that way.
The correct response to the first one might have been something like, "I don't have anything to hide either. But, I object strongly in principle. Many people believe there should be a right to privacy if for no other reason to help prevent descent into complete government control of everyone's lives and thoughts. If you don't think there is any risk of that just look at what goes on in China. You think that can't happen here, you would be wrong. Governments will move in that direction of if people have no objections to it. That it may happen through intermediary corporations is immaterial. Well, I object."
A response to the second one might have been, "I don't know what you were doing when you were 35 and living with your mom, or if you imagine yourself in that situation, but you should not assume other people share whatever your tendencies might be in such a situation."
With over 400k members you are going to get a broad cross-section. The inclusive nature of this site, along with the light touch moderation gives the opportunity for open debate to occur, with the side effect of risk of low SNR (as had happened here). On balance a good thing, which is why I post here.
There is an ignore function for when you can't take your eyes off certain peoples posts and a few do IMO sail too close to the wind. But only an opinion. The mods do a great job and I know when I step out of line I get a slap like anyone else.
And in all the noise, some great stuff gets discussed, but you only get out what you put in.
There is an ignore function for when you can't take your eyes off certain peoples posts and a few do IMO sail too close to the wind. But only an opinion. The mods do a great job and I know when I step out of line I get a slap like anyone else.
And in all the noise, some great stuff gets discussed, but you only get out what you put in.
Joy Division's "Transmission" came up next on my Youtube (it "knows"), I would think Ian Curtis is more apropos to the subject at hand.
You can say that again, IMO the most toxic thing about DIY forums of any interest.
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You may or may not know this, but I am currently going to considerable lengths to help other people - both here, and in my private life.
This particular thread is especially important to a lot of diyaudio members, as we are all trying to create a public space in which relative strangers with a common interest, can feel safe with each other while talking more or less about anything - except RELIGION or POLITICS or CONSPIRACY THEORIES.
I have no need or wish to pointlessly discuss the nuances of trollery with either yourself or anybody else for that matter. If you have misconstrued what I say, then tough. I am tired - real goddam tired, and all I wanted from today was some thoughtful intelligent discourse with people I am beginning to really like and respect - and you have beggared that up. For now.
This forum is not toxic, and to be honest your behaviour has rather spoilt the day for some of us.
ToS
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I find that the commercial stuff is sufficiently obvious as to be almost laughable. It takes many forms of course
a) Joe-X develops some neat stuff in an open thread and then decides to start selling it and in no time is plugging away in every thread he sees the opportunity. But does provide positive input to the forum through technical discussion etc.
b) Joe-Y develops something in a thread. Then he says he's further improved on it and it's simply so much better as a result and won't share it but you can buy it instead. I suspect the improvements are questionable. No further useful contributions.
c) Joe-Z rips off somebody else's ideas and uses them in products he sells in his home market. Usually nobody is wise to this but sometimes an honest soul surfaces - I've freely given permission to some folk to go sell stuff I've developed on the forum
d) Joe-Q weighs in on various threads to tell you how great a product is, that just happens to be one of his mates, or a supplier or customer etc. Or he tells you how crap a product is, whilst selling something similar, or his best mate is selling something similar
e) Joe-R is a Mod with commercial interests - this gets honestly resolved whenever I've seen it
f) etc.
I've never been too bothered by it because it's usually rather obvious. If the forum is too restrictive it won't survive. But bad behaviour in posts results in people staying away, they read, they don't post. I felt so uncomfortable after joining the forum that I nearly left it within the first 3 months until I got adjusted to the 'wild west' of the internet !
I've already discussed this with you before, so I'll say it again one more, last time. For whatever reason, you're not seeing the worst of it. So don't write off those of us who do see it.
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I admit that I forgot about that chat. I am becoming that age when we tell the same stories over because we forget having told them !
Well, ignorance is bliss, as they say.
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Haha. Seriously, to say that you don't see it is not derogatory, because the bandwidth of the forum is huge and everyone filters. There are behaviors that can't be proven because of the nature of the forum, but best explained by hidden commercial interests trying to drive hobbyists in a certain direction. It's not the "haha, he's obviously peddling his Product X" stuff.
It is normal for everyone to think they see reality as it truly is, more so than others do. It is a very compelling illusion, perhaps in some ways like the illusion of sighted listening. Hard to convince one's self it isn't real, because it seems so real.
In truth, all humans are detached from reality in lots of ways. Not usually enough to prevent survival, but sometimes even to that extent. And one of the big biases is over-confidence bias. Could be over confidence someone is a shill, often based on rather ambiguous evidence. But, the sense of certainty is so compelling. Hard to believe it isn't real.
Another thing to consider, audio is relatively penny-ante business. No IC opamps made just for audio by the big guys. Market is too small. Where is the real money? Drug companies is one place. You guys know very little about what the pro's know about how to persuade. Robert Cialdini wrote a couple of books intended for the popular press that are used as textbooks by business schools. They are, Influence, and Pre-suasion. Some of it is probably more advanced than you know how to defend against.
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There's not much I can think of that could be done to address that; the earth is populated by people with a wide range of values and ethics.
I feel that I've got enough reward from interacting on the forum, for the time and effort it has taken to participate. I did't come here to profit from it but my time here competes with other interests. I take no schitt and stick to my values. What else can you ask for ?
This is where the harsh reality of how things actually work helps everyone. You can't hide for long on a public forum. You sell some and someone traces the schematic and posts it for everyone, too bad that's the way it works in the real world.
Well you are good buddies with that Stuart fellow - and you went to lunch and coffee with me. She's right you know. 😀
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