And that's probably why Roger Sanders made special amps for the Innersound Eros.
I'm not an expert on Quads, I'm a Martin Logan owner but I assume Quad amps might be a good match although watching the volume when using the VTL might be a good match too.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/brands/104-quad/
Resurrecting this thread if I may. I noticed something funny with my '63's.
I was experimenting with a remote controlled mains socket, to turn off thw whole sound system when done listening.
It consumes about 100W when idle and I'm trying to see how low I can go as to power consumption.
So when I switch off the sound system, I also switch of the '63s.
Sometimes, that causes one speaker to produce a ticking sound with maybe 10 or 20 sec irregular intervals.
At another occasion, that speaker was silent but the other one produced a kind of sizzling sound.
It goes away when restoring the mains to the speakers.
Anybody has any idea what might cause this?
Jan
I was experimenting with a remote controlled mains socket, to turn off thw whole sound system when done listening.
It consumes about 100W when idle and I'm trying to see how low I can go as to power consumption.
So when I switch off the sound system, I also switch of the '63s.
Sometimes, that causes one speaker to produce a ticking sound with maybe 10 or 20 sec irregular intervals.
At another occasion, that speaker was silent but the other one produced a kind of sizzling sound.
It goes away when restoring the mains to the speakers.
Anybody has any idea what might cause this?
Jan
No idea, but nice to see that you are back on the forum!
When I still had ESL-63s, one of them produced ticking and sizzling sounds after a cat had urinated against it, but that was with power on. It depended a lot on the weather, if I remember well.
When I still had ESL-63s, one of them produced ticking and sizzling sounds after a cat had urinated against it, but that was with power on. It depended a lot on the weather, if I remember well.
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Hello Jan,
I also wired up my Audio system like yours - when I turn on my computer, it turns on the entire Audio system (Digital out from computer direct to TacT S2150 digital amp to Quads). But I always leave my Quad ESL-2805 powered to mains and ready (the speaker Bias circuit consumes very little power - in the milliamps).
When I turn off my computer, it kills power to amp... nice quiet click. Some amps and preamps before I had the S2150 made a thump on shutdown and bothered me...especially the Class A amps that had tons of capacitance.
I leave my ESL-2805 powered on and the has the QUAD LED lit showing its mains connected and powered.
I had a friend who connected his ESL-63 to a mains wall switch, as he thought leaving them powered on all the time was reducing life of the Quads...he neglected to inform wife of this wall switch, so one day, she kept raising volume, not hearing music from speakers, until poof...cannot remember if the amp gave in before the step up transformers in Quads...not cheap fix...and totally avoidable...
Along with the Tact S2150, I enjoyed them with Quicksilver 8417 tube amps, NCore NC400 amps, and my pair of Monarchy Audio SM-70 run as monoblocks... but the S2150 is really sounds clean and quiet, and its a DAC, Preamp and amp all in one...
I also wired up my Audio system like yours - when I turn on my computer, it turns on the entire Audio system (Digital out from computer direct to TacT S2150 digital amp to Quads). But I always leave my Quad ESL-2805 powered to mains and ready (the speaker Bias circuit consumes very little power - in the milliamps).
When I turn off my computer, it kills power to amp... nice quiet click. Some amps and preamps before I had the S2150 made a thump on shutdown and bothered me...especially the Class A amps that had tons of capacitance.
I leave my ESL-2805 powered on and the has the QUAD LED lit showing its mains connected and powered.
I had a friend who connected his ESL-63 to a mains wall switch, as he thought leaving them powered on all the time was reducing life of the Quads...he neglected to inform wife of this wall switch, so one day, she kept raising volume, not hearing music from speakers, until poof...cannot remember if the amp gave in before the step up transformers in Quads...not cheap fix...and totally avoidable...
Along with the Tact S2150, I enjoyed them with Quicksilver 8417 tube amps, NCore NC400 amps, and my pair of Monarchy Audio SM-70 run as monoblocks... but the S2150 is really sounds clean and quiet, and its a DAC, Preamp and amp all in one...
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Of course, telling his wife would have avoided this.
I always switched off my ESL-63s when not in use with a common switch at a convenient location. They start up in a few seconds, so why not? Fortunately I did tell my partner about it.
I always switched off my ESL-63s when not in use with a common switch at a convenient location. They start up in a few seconds, so why not? Fortunately I did tell my partner about it.
He was, as he urinated against the ESL-63 at night, while the ESL-63 was switched off.
When I turned the loudspeaker on the next morning, it blew its mains fuse in seconds. After cleaning everything the best I could, it worked again, but with ticking and sizzling sounds from the lower bass panel. I ended up replacing the lower bass panel and fixing the dust cover (it had a little hole in it at the height of the lower bass panel, which is probably why the urine reached the panel).
When I turned the loudspeaker on the next morning, it blew its mains fuse in seconds. After cleaning everything the best I could, it worked again, but with ticking and sizzling sounds from the lower bass panel. I ended up replacing the lower bass panel and fixing the dust cover (it had a little hole in it at the height of the lower bass panel, which is probably why the urine reached the panel).
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The two speakers consume about 8W together from the mains for the bias supply, so it's not like Greenpeace is going to sue me. I hope.
It's more the principle, and after I heard the sizzling I was curious.
It happened a few times and it doesn't seem to effect the sound reproduction at all.
Jan
Like my previous amps, odd noises could be the amp / preamp coming down on power off.... bias voltage takes a little while to drop significantly...
I considered that, but when I switch off and immediately remove the amp connection, it makes no difference.
Jan
Jan
Sounds like you might have a panel which has collapsed and is pulling away from a stator as it discharges.
Sheldon
Sheldon
jan... i trust nobady ;-)
Actually... if the stator plates has not been re-glued (if that is the case) anything can happen... :-(
Actually... if the stator plates has not been re-glued (if that is the case) anything can happen... :-(
If it were a loose stator, wouldn't noise occur when panel is fully charged, not as panel looses bias?
There is a small rubber plug near the power switch. Pull it out, underneath is a neon lamp. Check how often that flashes for each speaker. It's an indication how often the bias supply recharges the panel. A rebuild panel should be near perfect so once in 10-30 seconds or so is what you'd expect.
Isn't the diaphragme recharge (I guess that's what you mean by 'panel') a continuous process?
The charge current is extremely low but continuous, no?
Anyway, how would this process explain rustling noise when the bias is switched off?
Jan
The charge current is extremely low but continuous, no?
Anyway, how would this process explain rustling noise when the bias is switched off?
Jan
The neon bulb is part of a classic neon oscillator in series with the membrame. So in the Quad membrame charging is indeed sort of periodic. Whenever delta V over the neon gets high enough it ignites, transfering a small amount of charge to the membrame. The flash frequency is therefore a good indication of the amount of leakage. If you have an issue with a loose stator the leakage will be much higher than it should be and the neon bulb frequency will show this beyond doubt.
I see! So that brings up another thought.
If I switch off the bias supply, the membrane is still charged but the 'feeding' side of the neon drops down to zero.
(This bias supply is different from the factory stock circuit).
So that could lead to a 'reverse' discharge from the membrane through the neon.
That might cause a sound.
What do you think?
Jan
If I switch off the bias supply, the membrane is still charged but the 'feeding' side of the neon drops down to zero.
(This bias supply is different from the factory stock circuit).
So that could lead to a 'reverse' discharge from the membrane through the neon.
That might cause a sound.
What do you think?
Jan
The Neon lamp flash tells you when the diaphragm is getting a new "dose" of charge...
A healthy diaphragm will have the neon lamp flash once in about 8-12 seconds (real experts to confirm....)...while bad, leaky panels (a loose stator touching or arcing to diaphragm, or ripped flap of diaphragm touching or arcing to a stator) will flash quite a bit more...and along with a rapid flash, you will hear the clicking, zapping, etc...not unlike those Electrostatic Mosquito zappers...
Its a simple Neon lamp in parallel with 47nf cap in series with the bias charge wire...I put them in all my ESL experiments to check for proper operation...you can sometimes see it flash on heavy bass notes and loud operation, as the diaphragm amplitude gets driven closer to a stator, depleting charge, and the bias circuit struggles to return that 5.25kv lost charge...
A healthy diaphragm will have the neon lamp flash once in about 8-12 seconds (real experts to confirm....)...while bad, leaky panels (a loose stator touching or arcing to diaphragm, or ripped flap of diaphragm touching or arcing to a stator) will flash quite a bit more...and along with a rapid flash, you will hear the clicking, zapping, etc...not unlike those Electrostatic Mosquito zappers...
Its a simple Neon lamp in parallel with 47nf cap in series with the bias charge wire...I put them in all my ESL experiments to check for proper operation...you can sometimes see it flash on heavy bass notes and loud operation, as the diaphragm amplitude gets driven closer to a stator, depleting charge, and the bias circuit struggles to return that 5.25kv lost charge...
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Sounds logical if your non-stock bias supply can draw current.
The original cascade circuit only draws a bit of diode leakage when switched off. If the audio is still on, you hear the volume reduce very slowly on wet days, on cool and dry days it still plays at almost the original volume after an hour. Never try this at high volumes, as the protection may kick in early when the loudspeaker is off.