Maybe it makes a difference if it is still the original company producing the new versions and not a company that bought the name and flagged out to China.
There is a whole load of negativity on this particular thread, and a major dose of very unwelcome ageism.
"The dinosaurs" "target audience is around 70+ years of age. Few of those seem to have been able to leave the 70ties or 80ties behind" "the elderly should be wise and know they can not buy youth back"
Really? Is this what this thread has descended to?
I naïvely thought the thread topic was the reboot of the 33/303, and not having a pop at the elderly.
I'm bowing out of this thread - I have had my say. I'll keep my crumbly elderly rambles to myself.
"The dinosaurs" "target audience is around 70+ years of age. Few of those seem to have been able to leave the 70ties or 80ties behind" "the elderly should be wise and know they can not buy youth back"
Really? Is this what this thread has descended to?
I naïvely thought the thread topic was the reboot of the 33/303, and not having a pop at the elderly.
I'm bowing out of this thread - I have had my say. I'll keep my crumbly elderly rambles to myself.
No. It is about 33/303 "reboot" and the non originality of brands to produce similar new stuff in a retro version to attract older buyers. Retro/reboots/reintroductions are an undeniable phenomenon today to an almost pathetic level as the audio market is crumbling. Nothing to do with pop at the elderly as many members here probably are in the same group. The question is what the buyer will have. Is it the same emotion as kept in memory or it is a well performing device with only similar appearance?
The negative is that some are cheaply made chinese electronics sold with a smell of the properties/longevity of the old versions for premium prices. It borders on legally produced fake in some cases to beautifully crafted totally new up to date stuff in other cases. Criticism is allowed as it is only business/money that is wanted from us as audio buyers. Why would a customer pay a high price for an OEM device with a brand name of yesteryear when equal products can be bought also from China? Is it the industry killing itself off in a way?
Yes I turned the thread this way. Why? I repair such stuff as a hobby and regularly see the longevity of such brands. For instance NAD/Bluesound is a joke but bought on trust led by marketing. In reality the hardware is often worse than that of cheap chinese devices.
The negative is that some are cheaply made chinese electronics sold with a smell of the properties/longevity of the old versions for premium prices. It borders on legally produced fake in some cases to beautifully crafted totally new up to date stuff in other cases. Criticism is allowed as it is only business/money that is wanted from us as audio buyers. Why would a customer pay a high price for an OEM device with a brand name of yesteryear when equal products can be bought also from China? Is it the industry killing itself off in a way?
Yes I turned the thread this way. Why? I repair such stuff as a hobby and regularly see the longevity of such brands. For instance NAD/Bluesound is a joke but bought on trust led by marketing. In reality the hardware is often worse than that of cheap chinese devices.
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When you describe those buyers as ‘dinosaurs’ you can’t also assert that you are not at fault here.
Meant differently but have it your way. It can not be denied that the target audience are older people. It is tongue in cheek as many here are in the same group. Both at the wrong side of 50 and in the diminishing audio hobby. Now that they are lured into retro it is only good to have a critical look at each reintroduction of retro stuff. Does it live up the promise or is it an empty shell for too much money?
Sensitivity for words.....and I already admitted to be responsible. Not at fault. The fault is naively buying such stuff assuming blindly it is an enhanced version of what used to be.
Sensitivity for words.....and I already admitted to be responsible. Not at fault. The fault is naively buying such stuff assuming blindly it is an enhanced version of what used to be.
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"The Past is a Foreign land - never to be revisited". I have had time to think about this 303/33 revival and it's not for me. My 33 sits idle, on top of a 909 adjacent to a Sugden Headmaster and a Zen - V2 while the 303 is upstairs, boxed and ready to go to new owner. It is quite nice to reflect on the pleasure the 303/33 combination has given me - bought in 1972. But they are dated and just doesn't cut it any more.
The Sugden drives a pair of Hifiman Planar's and the 909, vintage 1973 BC1's.
The latest incarnation holds no attraction for me as there are so many well designed units out there. When I bought the 303/33, not only did they perform extremely well, but they were so eye - catching, timeless really and the design is still fresh to me.
It is said, "Imitation is the finest form of flattery". In this case, I don't believe it to be true. They will never turn heads the way the originals did, and still do.
However, I will keep the 33 - not for nostalgia, but because it remains an iconic design.
For me at least that is not the point: its is about the nostalgia thing, illustrative of the dead end street consumer hifi is in.
exactly that what should be established here. that aside I have always loved the look of the 33/303 combo and still do but if the new offering it was not up to my standard of today well I would simply pass.
I have been blinkered really - spending most of my working life abroad on various projects, such that developments passed me by. But, now I have the time to devote to music, I am happy with what I currently own. There are far better (expensive) systems around, but that is not the point - it is what one is comfortable with, and that is always going to be a compromise; price and perceived quality.
When I bought my 303/33 combination, it was exactly HK$1455, £100 equivalent in the UK. It was expensive, but given the years of service + two services at quad, it seems incredibly good value.
But nothing moved/changed for many years, so the fact is, Quad were superseded gradually.
Now, things move quickly - too quickly for some. That is going to handicap this retro 303/33. With other designs, it is easy to change the format - if that is the right word. However, with the 303/33, they are "Stuck". In my opinion, it will soon go from being retro to antique. But it will never hold the same allure as the original.
Harsh as it may seem, the Quality ratio between the competition of today,, and that of seventies is so different - the "New Quad 303/33" doesn't have a chance.
When I bought my 303/33 combination, it was exactly HK$1455, £100 equivalent in the UK. It was expensive, but given the years of service + two services at quad, it seems incredibly good value.
But nothing moved/changed for many years, so the fact is, Quad were superseded gradually.
Now, things move quickly - too quickly for some. That is going to handicap this retro 303/33. With other designs, it is easy to change the format - if that is the right word. However, with the 303/33, they are "Stuck". In my opinion, it will soon go from being retro to antique. But it will never hold the same allure as the original.
Harsh as it may seem, the Quality ratio between the competition of today,, and that of seventies is so different - the "New Quad 303/33" doesn't have a chance.
This is an enlightening discussion!
I had no idea all those iconic British audio brands had passed to hands in other countries. I also recently learned that Samsung owns Harman & its various iconic American (and intl) brands.
It's an ironic reversal that so many brands of "the golden age of HiFi" are now owned by corporations & individuals in what was then the 3rd world. And they are now creating products designed to tap into the nostalgic festishism of consumers in the 1st world. Funny how that nostalgia seems to afflict not only those who lived through that "golden era" but also those far too young to have known it.
I did live through it & saw some great products & technologies like the Quad Electrostatics, ESS Heil AMT, Nakamichi Dragon TT & top cassette decks, Teac 4ch RTR, the Brit TT revolution led by Linn, etc etc.... but they are mostly gone. That era of bold experimentation and seemingly endless unique product development (not only for billionaires but close enough for Everyman to reach) is unlikely to return. I suppose nostalgia for such an age is natural.
I don't have such nostalgia, though, mostly because I'm quite happy with the sound quality of the canned music I listen to these days on active 4-way dipoles. I'm certain it surpasses anything I owned, and even most any system I heard, back then.
I had no idea all those iconic British audio brands had passed to hands in other countries. I also recently learned that Samsung owns Harman & its various iconic American (and intl) brands.
It's an ironic reversal that so many brands of "the golden age of HiFi" are now owned by corporations & individuals in what was then the 3rd world. And they are now creating products designed to tap into the nostalgic festishism of consumers in the 1st world. Funny how that nostalgia seems to afflict not only those who lived through that "golden era" but also those far too young to have known it.
I did live through it & saw some great products & technologies like the Quad Electrostatics, ESS Heil AMT, Nakamichi Dragon TT & top cassette decks, Teac 4ch RTR, the Brit TT revolution led by Linn, etc etc.... but they are mostly gone. That era of bold experimentation and seemingly endless unique product development (not only for billionaires but close enough for Everyman to reach) is unlikely to return. I suppose nostalgia for such an age is natural.
I don't have such nostalgia, though, mostly because I'm quite happy with the sound quality of the canned music I listen to these days on active 4-way dipoles. I'm certain it surpasses anything I owned, and even most any system I heard, back then.
As two examples I know personally well, both Wharfedale and Quad were on their financial knees and about to go bust, like so many vanished audio companies of yesteryear. In both those cases, it was caused by a combination of financial crisis and recession coupled with incompetent management. What do people stop buying in times of financial uncertainty? Luxury goods like audio gear.
Personally, even though now owned by the Chinese, I'm delighted that they still survive. Although the Quad electrostatics are now made in China, the engineering standard and reliability exceeds anything that came out of Quad's dusty, pent roof, not air conditioned Huntingdon factory. And at least the Quad service and product design authority is still in Huntingdon UK.
And of course Linn is still very much alive and kicking, now run by son of Ivor Tieffenbrun, Gilad Tieffenbrun. Ivor remains in place as Chairman.
The one I really regret is SME, now owned by a guy called Ajay Shirke. He is a very rich high end audiophile, and has hoovered up SME, Garrard, Siltech Cable and Crystal Cable. He immediately stopped the supply of tone arms, being only available as part of a turntable package. He's since gone back on that to an extent, but the cost of the limited number of tone arms is eye poppingly expensive. I bought a new SME 3009 Mk2 Improved in the early 70's (I still have it). I purchased that as a school kid from saved pocket money. The modern equivalent from SME, the SME Series M2-9R Tonearm, is UKP3,000 or slightly more. You'd need some serious pocket money to buy one of those!
Looked at another way, SME were on their knees and there was a possibility that they were going to sell the factory real estate for housing development. So you have to take the current owner as being on balance a good thing.
Personally, even though now owned by the Chinese, I'm delighted that they still survive. Although the Quad electrostatics are now made in China, the engineering standard and reliability exceeds anything that came out of Quad's dusty, pent roof, not air conditioned Huntingdon factory. And at least the Quad service and product design authority is still in Huntingdon UK.
And of course Linn is still very much alive and kicking, now run by son of Ivor Tieffenbrun, Gilad Tieffenbrun. Ivor remains in place as Chairman.
The one I really regret is SME, now owned by a guy called Ajay Shirke. He is a very rich high end audiophile, and has hoovered up SME, Garrard, Siltech Cable and Crystal Cable. He immediately stopped the supply of tone arms, being only available as part of a turntable package. He's since gone back on that to an extent, but the cost of the limited number of tone arms is eye poppingly expensive. I bought a new SME 3009 Mk2 Improved in the early 70's (I still have it). I purchased that as a school kid from saved pocket money. The modern equivalent from SME, the SME Series M2-9R Tonearm, is UKP3,000 or slightly more. You'd need some serious pocket money to buy one of those!
Looked at another way, SME were on their knees and there was a possibility that they were going to sell the factory real estate for housing development. So you have to take the current owner as being on balance a good thing.
I always liked the look of the Quad.
New one looks fine to me. The new "dinosaur" monkey coffin speakers actually have decent drivers and measure rather well.
Be more than fine with the new Quad and some Wharfedale speakers.
I like listening to music, just push the on button then the play button.
New one looks fine to me. The new "dinosaur" monkey coffin speakers actually have decent drivers and measure rather well.
Be more than fine with the new Quad and some Wharfedale speakers.
I like listening to music, just push the on button then the play button.
The guy who saved both Quad and Wharfedale from the dustbin of history was Stan Curtis. And for that matter also Cambridge Audio, now thriving under initially under the Audio Partnership, one of whom now runs the company, a chap called James Johnson-Flint.
I bet the new dinosaur will soon become fossilised. The original will however, always find folks willing to bring it back to life. I wish them luck with it, but there is far too many competitors making really good kit for it to stand out, imo.
First look at the build quality, nothing special there. Then the performance, again, rather underwhelming.
Not really. It is real amplifier Class AB with triples and NO switch mode. Has a real power supply.
Line and balanced input and holds .002% towards crest power.
Seems to support 4 ohms bridged, I dont bridge but thermally it seems they had 2 ohms in mind.
So sounds completely opposite to the opinion, rather fine. Darn good amp.
I'll hang with the dinosaurs. I dont have a 30,000 $ dollar DAC that needs a .01% class D amplifier LOL!
The sensitivity of the single line input seems rather good, would basically run any signal I deal with.
I would say thumbs up to the design team, for not being to lost in modern nonsense.
Real straight forward amp.
I use to sell furniture, the new " modern" trend from some TV shows that everybody wanted.
Was actually toned down copies of 60's style furniture. This amp would be a real beauty on some of the pieces I sold.
That metal CNC chassis/ heatsink captured everything I always loved about the 303. Be hard to beat DIY.
I would be impressed in anyone matched it. You think orange wasn't a favorite color, until you see a room done right
with accents. Many modern hip restaurants in my area use the walnut wood / orange accent.
Again you think it wouldn't work until you take in the atmosphere, when done right.
They toss in enough of the trendy grey stuff, to tie it all in.
Line and balanced input and holds .002% towards crest power.
Seems to support 4 ohms bridged, I dont bridge but thermally it seems they had 2 ohms in mind.
So sounds completely opposite to the opinion, rather fine. Darn good amp.
I'll hang with the dinosaurs. I dont have a 30,000 $ dollar DAC that needs a .01% class D amplifier LOL!
The sensitivity of the single line input seems rather good, would basically run any signal I deal with.
I would say thumbs up to the design team, for not being to lost in modern nonsense.
Real straight forward amp.
I use to sell furniture, the new " modern" trend from some TV shows that everybody wanted.
Was actually toned down copies of 60's style furniture. This amp would be a real beauty on some of the pieces I sold.
That metal CNC chassis/ heatsink captured everything I always loved about the 303. Be hard to beat DIY.
I would be impressed in anyone matched it. You think orange wasn't a favorite color, until you see a room done right
with accents. Many modern hip restaurants in my area use the walnut wood / orange accent.
Again you think it wouldn't work until you take in the atmosphere, when done right.
They toss in enough of the trendy grey stuff, to tie it all in.
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I take your point about "Money No Object Designs." That territory is for those beyond my means. However, it sort of undermines the rest of their excellent kit. Are they going to replace one of their ranges? If not, will the new dinosaur not simply steal sales from them?