Hi
I have got a cardinal transport + ordinal DAC (with the HDCD unit). I like the sound of it, but witg some CD's the Cardinal get in rea trouble, causing cracks or even stops playing. Anybody knows which unit/brand this transport uses? Should it be easy to replace?
And what are your thoughts about this combination, soundwise?
Thanks all
I have got a cardinal transport + ordinal DAC (with the HDCD unit). I like the sound of it, but witg some CD's the Cardinal get in rea trouble, causing cracks or even stops playing. Anybody knows which unit/brand this transport uses? Should it be easy to replace?
And what are your thoughts about this combination, soundwise?
Thanks all
I'm not sure what version of transport you have - any chance of posting a picture (also an internal photo would be better).
If it’s an early unit then it uses a Sanyo Pick-up (maybe they all did?) - but normally re-adjusting the servo board will resolve the issues. If not I can find the part # - and maybe have a couple of spare heads.
I believe the Sanyo pick-up had “91” at the end – but can confirm by the end of next week.
John
If it’s an early unit then it uses a Sanyo Pick-up (maybe they all did?) - but normally re-adjusting the servo board will resolve the issues. If not I can find the part # - and maybe have a couple of spare heads.
I believe the Sanyo pick-up had “91” at the end – but can confirm by the end of next week.
John
To John W
Thanks for replying. Tomorrow a friend will come with his camera and we will take some pictures.
Thanks for replying. Tomorrow a friend will come with his camera and we will take some pictures.
I used to have a Cardinal and although with the DaCapo it sounded really good it was abysmal at tracking. Almost any modern transport will do better, if you can get hold of a re-clock circuit to reduce jitter then I would say that would be a better bet than replacing an old transport mechanism.
funnily enough
funnily enough today I noticed my Cambridge DISCmagic transport has some odd problems with certain CD's. I'm not sure but I think this may have something in common with the Cardinal. - I think they both offer synclock.
Anyway the problem I see is with some longer CD's i.e over 70 minutes , it seems to jump around on the last few tracks i.e the outer ones. It''s not like when you have a scratch or hair, this behaves like it plays a fraction of a seconds music then jumps forward back, playing the briefest bits. My trusty CD104 plays the disc no problem.
Maybe the Transport needs an inspection. Otherwise plays fine
funnily enough today I noticed my Cambridge DISCmagic transport has some odd problems with certain CD's. I'm not sure but I think this may have something in common with the Cardinal. - I think they both offer synclock.
Anyway the problem I see is with some longer CD's i.e over 70 minutes , it seems to jump around on the last few tracks i.e the outer ones. It''s not like when you have a scratch or hair, this behaves like it plays a fraction of a seconds music then jumps forward back, playing the briefest bits. My trusty CD104 plays the disc no problem.
Maybe the Transport needs an inspection. Otherwise plays fine
Both the PT Cardinal and Cambridge Audio CD4, CD6 & CDT use the same Servo chipset (and design) and Sanyo Laser Pickup / loader. When the original CD spec. was defined, the maxim playback time was I believe about 63 Minutes – this has since been extended to 70minutes? – some early generation designs are OK with this - others not! Don’t even mention CDR’s or worst CDRW.
The servo chipset Sony CXD1167 (CXD1125 with internal Ram) and Sanyo pick-up (with fixed gain) are basically first generation units – and cannot (could not) match the performance of the Philips based units of the time.
Note: - the CD4SE uses Philips CDM12.1 based Servo / Pick up.
The servo chipset Sony CXD1167 (CXD1125 with internal Ram) and Sanyo pick-up (with fixed gain) are basically first generation units – and cannot (could not) match the performance of the Philips based units of the time.
Note: - the CD4SE uses Philips CDM12.1 based Servo / Pick up.
Scary...
Just got back from a monthly meeting i have with some pals and somebody gave me a sanyo pickup. So i had a look on the net and found it at some spare part companies.
Was actually looking for cdp's where it was used. Could not find much, so i just looked here for a moment to c what is new.
And found this thread. The thing i got seems to be a SF91-5-6, where the 5&6 seem to be the number of pins on two connectors (?). There is one 91 with more pins, but it does not seem to have a chip on-board (jrc,8 pens ~opamp i guess).
My transport is actually not used, so now i know what dead cdp's too look for (thanks). Pic is from camera phone without much light, so a bit fuzzy.
Greetings,
Just got back from a monthly meeting i have with some pals and somebody gave me a sanyo pickup. So i had a look on the net and found it at some spare part companies.
Was actually looking for cdp's where it was used. Could not find much, so i just looked here for a moment to c what is new.
And found this thread. The thing i got seems to be a SF91-5-6, where the 5&6 seem to be the number of pins on two connectors (?). There is one 91 with more pins, but it does not seem to have a chip on-board (jrc,8 pens ~opamp i guess).
My transport is actually not used, so now i know what dead cdp's too look for (thanks). Pic is from camera phone without much light, so a bit fuzzy.
Greetings,
Attachments
JohnW said:
Not quite like that, sort of.
When Philips and Sony were developing the CD, Philips had established that it would be 16bits/48khz sampling.
That gave a running time of around 60 minutes.
Sony's president (Mr. Morita?) at the time insisted that Beethoven's 9th symphony had to fit on one disc.
He insisted so much that Philips and Sony agreed to change the CD spec to 16bit/44.1khz, giving a running time of 74 minutes.
We must thank Mr. Morita for making it even worse than was initially planed.
“Standard size disc, Philips recommends that the playing time of a Compact Disc should not exceed 74 minutes 44 Seconds. However, most CD players will play Disc up to 80 minutes duration. CDs exceeding the recommended playing time of 74 minutes 44 seconds, may not play satisfactorily on some CD players.”
This is the picture of the transport - finally.
I got this transport + DAC for little money because it's old and was not working right. I thought it could be fixed and still be good for the also old fashioned 16bits 44.1khz CD. (Don't want to start a discussion about this, however.)
I got this transport + DAC for little money because it's old and was not working right. I thought it could be fixed and still be good for the also old fashioned 16bits 44.1khz CD. (Don't want to start a discussion about this, however.)
Attachments
Yes its the Sanyo head - will give you the Correct Part # when I return from a business trip.
Do you have the Clock-Lock card in the ordinal (2x BNC leads to the transport)?
The servo sections very weak in the Transport, but the Dac uses 2x DAC7 - with SAA7350 & HDCD - still a good DAC.
If I could find say 5 Cardinal owners who wish to "Upgrade" there Transport - I would then happly spend the time to design a new Servo / Front panel PCB that could be retrofitted to the old case-work.
How about an upgrade for the Ordinal / Dacapo....
Also a new Clock-Lock interface with lower Jitter.
John
Do you have the Clock-Lock card in the ordinal (2x BNC leads to the transport)?
The servo sections very weak in the Transport, but the Dac uses 2x DAC7 - with SAA7350 & HDCD - still a good DAC.
If I could find say 5 Cardinal owners who wish to "Upgrade" there Transport - I would then happly spend the time to design a new Servo / Front panel PCB that could be retrofitted to the old case-work.
How about an upgrade for the Ordinal / Dacapo....
Also a new Clock-Lock interface with lower Jitter.
John
Hi JohnW
Thanks for the information and yes, the Ordinal have a Clock Lock.
I can't spend much money on this transport + DAC, simply because I don't have it.
Erik
Thanks for the information and yes, the Ordinal have a Clock Lock.
I can't spend much money on this transport + DAC, simply because I don't have it.
Erik
Hi JohnW
Many thanks for your help. Hopefully I can get a good sounding CD player again.
I'm actually living in the Netherlands. I still have to change my identification.
Erik
Many thanks for your help. Hopefully I can get a good sounding CD player again.
I'm actually living in the Netherlands. I still have to change my identification.
Erik
Hi Erik,
Well that makes it easier - I'm the original designer of the early PT digital equipment - Cardinal, Ordinal & Dacapo (you should find my name on the PCB's somewhere near the PT Logo - so if you cannot resolve the problems with your unit - I should be able to help.
All my PT prototype units have long disappeared – If you would be interested, I could modify a transport with the latest genaration servo chipset that will also play CDR’s and CDRW’s with a new Clock-Lock interface for your Ordinal – in exchange for the “limping” Cardinal (so atleast I would have one of my own designs at home)!
John Westlake
Well that makes it easier - I'm the original designer of the early PT digital equipment - Cardinal, Ordinal & Dacapo (you should find my name on the PCB's somewhere near the PT Logo - so if you cannot resolve the problems with your unit - I should be able to help.
All my PT prototype units have long disappeared – If you would be interested, I could modify a transport with the latest genaration servo chipset that will also play CDR’s and CDRW’s with a new Clock-Lock interface for your Ordinal – in exchange for the “limping” Cardinal (so atleast I would have one of my own designs at home)!
John Westlake
ErikdeBest said:
You dont happen to have an unused cdm12.1 or similar? Would not mind a swap to help out the guy that i got the sanyo unit from. He wants to fix a 9 series multi disk player (the one that holds 5 disks).
greetings,
Guido,
When I return from a business trip I will have a look - my "Lab's" spread over 3 countries - making it hard to find things sometimes... I remember seeing a CDM12.4 recently...
John
When I return from a business trip I will have a look - my "Lab's" spread over 3 countries - making it hard to find things sometimes... I remember seeing a CDM12.4 recently...
John
Hi John Westlake
That would be fantastic. I'm really interested in your offer. I still have the original box and the IR, off course.
I think we can better have contact through e-mail for further details.
Erik
That would be fantastic. I'm really interested in your offer. I still have the original box and the IR, off course.
I think we can better have contact through e-mail for further details.
Erik
Sorry for the late revival of this thread.. is there any info you can give in which way the transport misbehaves? That sounds very much like the same with my cxd1167qz-based Nakamichi cd player 4...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42618
Did anyone find a way to solve the prob? can cxd1167 be replaced by a better working dsp?
matthias
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42618
Did anyone find a way to solve the prob? can cxd1167 be replaced by a better working dsp?
matthias
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