Hi folks,
I recently moved to France, and I am looking to reconfigure my amps for 230V/50Hz. Most of the amps I have are restrappable (dual primaries), but the PS Audio 200c does not appear to be. This amp is very powerful - it's nominally 200WPC into 8 Ohms, but keeps doubling, up to 800WPC into 2 Ohms, and 1000WPC into 1.5 Ohms. But it does not seem to have a line fuse or a VA rating on the chassis. It's not UL rated either. They do have a bit of a reputation for pyrotechnics...
Anyway, it looks like dual 104VCT secondaries, with no other voltages. But I've no idea what this original transformer is rated for current. It was made by Paraline, who was very helpful 15 years ago, when I got the amp - they revarnished it to see if they could make it hum a bit less, which I think it did - but they seem to be out of business now.
Any information, or educated guesses?
Thanks,
Paul
I recently moved to France, and I am looking to reconfigure my amps for 230V/50Hz. Most of the amps I have are restrappable (dual primaries), but the PS Audio 200c does not appear to be. This amp is very powerful - it's nominally 200WPC into 8 Ohms, but keeps doubling, up to 800WPC into 2 Ohms, and 1000WPC into 1.5 Ohms. But it does not seem to have a line fuse or a VA rating on the chassis. It's not UL rated either. They do have a bit of a reputation for pyrotechnics...
Anyway, it looks like dual 104VCT secondaries, with no other voltages. But I've no idea what this original transformer is rated for current. It was made by Paraline, who was very helpful 15 years ago, when I got the amp - they revarnished it to see if they could make it hum a bit less, which I think it did - but they seem to be out of business now.
Any information, or educated guesses?
Thanks,
Paul
The owners manual for the 200C states: " The transformer for the 200C is a custom wound, quad-filer, muliple gauge device with 1200 Watts of power" ....Marketing speak...
The secondary is 104VCT so the current rating should be about 11.5 Amps.
I have accumulated several files about the 200c and would be happy to email them to you.
The secondary is 104VCT so the current rating should be about 11.5 Amps.
I have accumulated several files about the 200c and would be happy to email them to you.
Dual secondaries, each with it's own bridge rectifier.
1200W is an interesting number to provide when the amp is claimed to deliver 2000W. If it were 1200VA for each secondary, that would make sense from a claims perspective... More likely they're going from continuous power into 8 or 4 Ohms, to short peaks at 2 or 1.5 Ohms.
I have a 2000W 230 to 115 transformer, and it's way bigger than the one in the 200c.
Thanks for the info!
1200W is an interesting number to provide when the amp is claimed to deliver 2000W. If it were 1200VA for each secondary, that would make sense from a claims perspective... More likely they're going from continuous power into 8 or 4 Ohms, to short peaks at 2 or 1.5 Ohms.
I have a 2000W 230 to 115 transformer, and it's way bigger than the one in the 200c.
Thanks for the info!
Actually, I found some docs from HiFiEngine. One of those has a power supply schematic. In that it is claimed that there are dual wires from the secondary, but only a single set of windings. I will probably pull the cover later and verify with a meter. Edit: just checked. The schematic is correct... dual leads from the transformer, but they are connected together internally.
That schematic also says that the line fuse is 10A, but only 32V rated. I guess that's part of why these amps were not UL rated. :-|
There's an AliExpress seller with a 230V 50Hz toroid that they claim is 1800W, with about 15A into the 104VCT secondary. It looks like it should just fit in terms of diameter; plenty of room heightwise. May just go with that.
That schematic also says that the line fuse is 10A, but only 32V rated. I guess that's part of why these amps were not UL rated. :-|
There's an AliExpress seller with a 230V 50Hz toroid that they claim is 1800W, with about 15A into the 104VCT secondary. It looks like it should just fit in terms of diameter; plenty of room heightwise. May just go with that.
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I did decide to get the AliExpress toroidal. I'll update here as to how it works out. One thing is that the original transformer hums a bit, even after revarnishing. Hopefully the toroidal will be silent.
Well, the AliExpress transformer is a bust. Physically, it was a perfect fit.
I had three problems with it, though:
1. The output voltage was higher than claimed... with the amp at idle it outputs 117VAC rather than the claimed 104VAC. Even adjusting for the assumption that they used 220V and my mains measure 236V, it was still out of spec, which resulted in 76V rails, with 75V filter caps.
2. With about 1100W of load on it (a hair dryer, and the amp itself on idle), it dropped to 98VAC. My guess is that this transformer is good for maybe 800W, possibly closer to 500W... certainly not 1800W. The primary resistance is about 6X the original transformer. I'd expect 2X for 115 vs 230.
3. It buzzes/hums pretty noticeably. Sounds like an aquarium air pump. I tried a few things, like more isolation under it, tightening the mounting bolt more, moving it around... all made basically zero difference in the noise.
If it weren't for the noise, I would probably stack two of these and cross my fingers about the slightly over spec rail voltage, but the noise is a deal breaker for me. I'm thinking to put the OE transformer back. I did some load testing with it on 112V 50Hz from a step-down 2000VA transformer, and it looked pretty good. The 1000W load of the hair dryer dropped it only 3.2%. It has a fixed cord, so I would need to install a new plug, and that's a bit annoying, but c'est la vie.
Looking at more reputable suppliers, like Mouser, I found a pair of Triad 500W toroids. These are close, but won't quite work. Just a bit too big in diameter to fit either stacked or on edge. The one thing I could do would be to construct a shelf so they could sit above the filter caps. That would fit, and would make the amp dual mono. But that's about 235€ before shipping (from DigiKey France), and not counting the shelf. On the other hand, these have multiple primaries, so it's still a bit tempting.
So, thoughts? 1000VA dual mono with a bit of fabrication work, and the option to switch to any supply voltage, or go back to the original transformer and add another external step-down (100€ for a 3000VA from Amazon... hopefully it's quiet and not too wasteful).
I had three problems with it, though:
1. The output voltage was higher than claimed... with the amp at idle it outputs 117VAC rather than the claimed 104VAC. Even adjusting for the assumption that they used 220V and my mains measure 236V, it was still out of spec, which resulted in 76V rails, with 75V filter caps.
2. With about 1100W of load on it (a hair dryer, and the amp itself on idle), it dropped to 98VAC. My guess is that this transformer is good for maybe 800W, possibly closer to 500W... certainly not 1800W. The primary resistance is about 6X the original transformer. I'd expect 2X for 115 vs 230.
3. It buzzes/hums pretty noticeably. Sounds like an aquarium air pump. I tried a few things, like more isolation under it, tightening the mounting bolt more, moving it around... all made basically zero difference in the noise.
If it weren't for the noise, I would probably stack two of these and cross my fingers about the slightly over spec rail voltage, but the noise is a deal breaker for me. I'm thinking to put the OE transformer back. I did some load testing with it on 112V 50Hz from a step-down 2000VA transformer, and it looked pretty good. The 1000W load of the hair dryer dropped it only 3.2%. It has a fixed cord, so I would need to install a new plug, and that's a bit annoying, but c'est la vie.
Looking at more reputable suppliers, like Mouser, I found a pair of Triad 500W toroids. These are close, but won't quite work. Just a bit too big in diameter to fit either stacked or on edge. The one thing I could do would be to construct a shelf so they could sit above the filter caps. That would fit, and would make the amp dual mono. But that's about 235€ before shipping (from DigiKey France), and not counting the shelf. On the other hand, these have multiple primaries, so it's still a bit tempting.
So, thoughts? 1000VA dual mono with a bit of fabrication work, and the option to switch to any supply voltage, or go back to the original transformer and add another external step-down (100€ for a 3000VA from Amazon... hopefully it's quiet and not too wasteful).
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Maybe have one wound to spec by a shop, a shop perhaps in Poland? I think I saw such a shop in group buy section a long time ago. Just throwing it out there.
By the way, the factory transformer is about 17% down in VA capacity in the 50Hz world, if it matters.
Edit: shop is called Toroidy.
By the way, the factory transformer is about 17% down in VA capacity in the 50Hz world, if it matters.
Edit: shop is called Toroidy.
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Thanks. I've dropped a note to Toroidy to see if they have some options that would work.
My testing of the original transformer was with 50Hz supply, and it still did quite well. I would have thought that PS Audio was trying to sell internationally back in the day. I don't understand why they did not have dual primaries.
My testing of the original transformer was with 50Hz supply, and it still did quite well. I would have thought that PS Audio was trying to sell internationally back in the day. I don't understand why they did not have dual primaries.
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They got back to me pretty quickly. They can supply two 600VA transformers that should (hopefully) fit stacked, for about 300€ for the pair.
I hope that works out fine for you.
If the amp is not already fitted with an inrush current limiter, you most certainly will need one, as the toroidals can sometimes sink a devastating start up current through the house wiring. I see Toroidy offers inrush limiters, but if you would like to build your own, it can be made with a 22-ohm high power resistor, going in series with the transformer primary, and a relay that shorts out that resistor. A suitable DC supply derived from one of the power transformers auxiliary winding will power the relay, with a time delay about a second or two of turning on the power switch.
If the amp is not already fitted with an inrush current limiter, you most certainly will need one, as the toroidals can sometimes sink a devastating start up current through the house wiring. I see Toroidy offers inrush limiters, but if you would like to build your own, it can be made with a 22-ohm high power resistor, going in series with the transformer primary, and a relay that shorts out that resistor. A suitable DC supply derived from one of the power transformers auxiliary winding will power the relay, with a time delay about a second or two of turning on the power switch.
Got the transformers a couple of days ago from Toroidy. Have not had a chance to install them yet. Looks like the centers are potted, and that's how they get mounted. Each of these 600VA transformers is about the same size as the one AliExpress "1800W" transformer.
Unfortunately, I miscalculated on how much space I have between the front plate and the capacitors and the new toroids are a couple of mm too wide to fit stacked. They will either need brackets to mount them on edge, or a shelf to let them sit flat side-by-side above the caps.
