I did some more digging. Plastic diaphram mics are particularily sensitive to temperature, humidity, and pollution. If they get too hot they can be permentally altered (a hot car is often given as an example).
Like a T/S parameter set, perhaps enuff to have measurements made under different conditions not directly comparable.
One way to minimize this is to pre-age the diaphragm -- more expensive plastic capsuled mics like the Earthworks do this and it makes them MUCH more stable. They are still very vulnerable to change due to mechanical shocks… drop the mic, andtime tosenditback for a re-cal.
The best overview of capsules i found was here: Gefell Microphone Capsule Types
dave
I have heard better CSD, but the vocal I heard from the 10F recording was so exotic. Troels Gravesen also mentioned about female vocal sweetness:
There were three surprises for me when I first fired up these speakers. They play classical music very well indeed and female opera singers are a delight!.
I don't know if the sweetness of the female voice he perceived was due to 10F or the tweeter, because the ScanSpeak ring radiator tweeter also has EXACTLY the same character (high 2nd order harmonics).
Oh could explain the old argue where US and Japanese plot were inline for CHN70.
Microphone used to produce datasheet could accidently have been dropped without notice.
Thanks digging.
Two things in audio of which I've never come across a to me acceptable example: Tube amps and drivers with whizzer cones.
That said at a push I could live with a tube amp as they make everything sound 'nice' but whizzer cones 'crapify' everything IMO so I really wouldn't want either anywhere near my stereo.
No more horror movies in mono, please 
I wouldn't discard any cheap 4 " driver, as the project makes the whole thing's sound.
For me, 4" cheap FR's for radio replacements are very good either.
Just for low volume listening, of course. The 5 W rating on the magnet should be a warning.
I wouldn't discard any cheap 4 " driver, as the project makes the whole thing's sound.
For me, 4" cheap FR's for radio replacements are very good either.
Just for low volume listening, of course. The 5 W rating on the magnet should be a warning.
all I have loose in the 4"-5" range are JBL104-H, alnico LE5, Faital 4fe32, PA130 and maybe a FE88ex - fwiw Cogent's Rich Drysdale said Steve Schell's beat-up Karlsons loaded with RCA woofer and RCA radial horn would beat the Wilson speaker (maybe those suck?) - old tech can sometimes be as good as modern CD waveguide - just different. If music is good enough, then I could enjoy something from 1905 on a little radio speaker.
Probably true (except what is pollution?). I solve that problem fairly easy - I put a driver on my test baffle that i've measured before. If there is a difference then something has gone wrong with either the driver, mic or system setup since last time.
Hi,
I suggest round 3 is in a different thread, and leave
the nit-picking * of the method in this thread.
rgds, sreten.
* FWIW I've no problem with any alleged limitations.
The test scenario is what it is, and claiming it must
be invalid in some important respects is grasping
at straws IMO, its not perfect, nothing ever is.
I suggest round 3 is in a different thread, and leave
the nit-picking * of the method in this thread.
rgds, sreten.
* FWIW I've no problem with any alleged limitations.
The test scenario is what it is, and claiming it must
be invalid in some important respects is grasping
at straws IMO, its not perfect, nothing ever is.
I was going to create a new thread in full range forum with the same format as earlier 2 threads. This one is really different and maybe the name Round 3 should be changed. I suggest the title be more along lines of:
Pros and Cons of Remote Subjective Blind Auditioning of Drivers
Pros and Cons of Remote Subjective Blind Auditioning of Drivers
You should still do that, this thread is not your test.
Your title is much better than the one i suggested.
dave
Xrk, have you thought of building an anechoic chamber in your house? Back when my main hobby was building computers, I used to spend a lot of time on SilentPCReview. This is a hardware review site, but with a focus on silent computing. The articles on SPCR are, IMO, of unusually high quality. I mention it here because the focus on silence means the site editor, Mike Chin, spent a lot of time and effort building up a lab where he can consistently evaluate noise levels of PC components. See this article about the anechoic chamber he built in his house. And here's the article that details the sound measurement gear. SPCR has been kind of doing what you're doing here, but with PC fans and power supplies for years now (most reviews include a recording of the component so you can download and listen to the character of sound, as SPL isn't everything).
Just a random idea, if nothing else I thought the articles I linked might interest you (or really anyone reading this thread).
Just a random idea, if nothing else I thought the articles I linked might interest you (or really anyone reading this thread).
X,
Please don't let the bickering stop you from running your test. I suggest you split the discussion of your test setup that started in post 2 (!!!) of this thread into a separate thread. Then link to that thread from your first post here.
Also, it might not be a bad idea to buy the Dayton EMM mic. It comes with a calibration file and is sufficient for DIY measurement purposes.
Please don't let the bickering stop you from running your test. I suggest you split the discussion of your test setup that started in post 2 (!!!) of this thread into a separate thread. Then link to that thread from your first post here.
Also, it might not be a bad idea to buy the Dayton EMM mic. It comes with a calibration file and is sufficient for DIY measurement purposes.
Also, why is this thread not in the full-range forum? Aren't the drivers being tested mainly categorized as full-range drivers? There are completely different groups of people that visit the full-range forum and the multi-way forum. If your goal is to help the full-range driver folks, then this thread should be in the full-range forum.
I am thinking of getting another UMM-6 that is calibrated by an independent party. The EMM-6 would need a sound card. I could use the ADC and XLR inputs on my Zoom H4. However I would get all sorts of whining about how that is not accurate. When I resume the Comparison thread Round 3 of will be in Full range. The name of this thread was created by a moderator when they split this thread out.
I recently took some measurements in a larger room and it made a big difference with less reflections. Anechoic requires sound dampening panels.
i'm starting to have a good base for comparison among these small drivers and, according to the needs of your test, i think the Airborne FR 5'' might perform well, even the wooden version.
I wouldnt bother with PR4 or 5FRK that i'm testing as i'm sure they won't score very high non-EQed... Also curious to see how the B80 performs on your side but i wouldnt bet on it, especially compared to the Scan 10F.
I wouldnt bother with PR4 or 5FRK that i'm testing as i'm sure they won't score very high non-EQed... Also curious to see how the B80 performs on your side but i wouldnt bet on it, especially compared to the Scan 10F.
Give the runner's a chance! 😛
My test will be conducted in a professionnal fashion and i'll probably even produce a video of it.
You're right, that IS a lot of work.
This was not directed at you but was to question why P10 thought your test was worthy of his enabled driver being loaned for a test whereas he has nothing but criticisms of all the reasons why my tests aren't any good. He keep going back to the mic. I may not have the funds to afford an Earthworks matched pair of M50's, but the same mic as well as the same Zoom H4 and entire system was the same for all drivers.
One thing about your test is that you are pre auditioning and eliminating drivers before you get to your real test. Not measuring and not recording sound clips from all drivers deprives members of the benefit of being able to sample all drivers like a wine tasting. It would be extremely useful if you could do so. And yes it IS a lot of work but we would all appreciate it. The work once posted here (make sure sound clips are actually uploaded onto diyAudio servers so they won't be broken links in the future), would be an enduring source for others to use in the future as a reference.
Well i sure wouldnt discredit your test because of the mic's quality. In fact, like i said, your sound takes (round 2) are surprisingly good.
M50 is good for calibration. It's reliable and it seems to do very well even at very low or very high frequencies.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.