anatech said:
Hi Chris... how's it hanging. By the number of and length of your posts I take it your health is travelling a bit better.
All you points are valid and no arguements from me. We are just looking at it from different perspectives.
You have a great deal of knowledge and vast experience in electronics so you have the jump on me in the technical side big time. Your comments in this thread reflect that and is a view from inside the amp so to speak.
Myself on the other hand am a kit builder and I rely on the designer to provide a stable design with some tolerance to variations in builds. I do not try to completely understand how it all works and Hugh has explained a lot to me, though a large portion goes over my head. However, even though the inner details doesn't interest me, I do make the effort to ensure I have the required skills to build and research the other aspects that are not covered in the instructions such as wiring, layouts, components etc to ensure a successful build. So what I'm saying is the builder has to accept some responsibilty so they are competent and have appropriate levels of knowledge.
I know you haven't seen Hugh's instructions but they are very comprehensive and the best I've ever seen (over 40 pages on the basic AKSA alone). Wiring is discussed and I can't remember the original AKSA but the GK-1 and LF55 came with wiring. Hugh's forum becomes and extension of the instructions and a valuable resource.
There has been mentions of this section of the thread being split off and I think it's a good idea. Maybe the moderators could think about that.
1. It has been proven by now that Smith cannot be helped by us, so we seem to be out of it now
More than usual have been done, and probably also to help Hugh(Aksa)
2. Aksa now have a very rare not satisfied customer
I dont understand why modules havent been sent back fore check/repair, a long time ago
3. Why Aksa/Hugh is here complaining about a customer is beyond me
I dont see why we should be involved in Aksas commercial affairs
This shouldnt be happening at all
Its all very strange
4. I dont think its right to say "they always work", "it worked when you got it", "suspiciously dubious" and so on
Anything can fail, fore whatever reason
And, its refurbished modules
I must say that Hugh shows great courage to do such
Personally I hate being called stupid or even being part of the problem, whenever I happen to go to a shop making warranty claims
5. Sure, a customer have an obligation to know his own skills
On the other hand, AKSA is selling plug and play modules and intentionally approach the less skilled
Yes, they do have their own forum fore that, and a very good one I must say
A couple of years back I read all there was to read, about ALL Aspen products, and with great pleasure
Hugh
As said from the beginning, you here have a rare customer you dont know how to handle, and I dont understand why you havent chosen the easy way, to take modules back and refund money
we wouldnt be here I you had
I would NOT suggest repair nor replace
😉
Some may not like this, but Im completely neutral, and trying to be 100% objective
🙂
More than usual have been done, and probably also to help Hugh(Aksa)
2. Aksa now have a very rare not satisfied customer
I dont understand why modules havent been sent back fore check/repair, a long time ago
3. Why Aksa/Hugh is here complaining about a customer is beyond me
I dont see why we should be involved in Aksas commercial affairs
This shouldnt be happening at all
Its all very strange
4. I dont think its right to say "they always work", "it worked when you got it", "suspiciously dubious" and so on
Anything can fail, fore whatever reason
And, its refurbished modules
I must say that Hugh shows great courage to do such
Personally I hate being called stupid or even being part of the problem, whenever I happen to go to a shop making warranty claims
5. Sure, a customer have an obligation to know his own skills
On the other hand, AKSA is selling plug and play modules and intentionally approach the less skilled
Yes, they do have their own forum fore that, and a very good one I must say
A couple of years back I read all there was to read, about ALL Aspen products, and with great pleasure
Hugh
As said from the beginning, you here have a rare customer you dont know how to handle, and I dont understand why you havent chosen the easy way, to take modules back and refund money
we wouldnt be here I you had
I would NOT suggest repair nor replace
😉Some may not like this, but Im completely neutral, and trying to be 100% objective
🙂
rabbitz said:
rabbitz of australia. Hello!
Think your suggestion of a new
AKSA Technical Matters Topic ... or something like this
is a the good and proper idea.
There is difference between my original Topic: Listening Impressions ..
and a more fact & figures & such based topic.
I now, ask to anatech, a clever and decent audio guy of some age,
to start such a topic, and move the posts dealing with only technical issues to there.
Preferably, if think is possible, make it a STICKY in Solid State
Because AKSA have been loyal to our forum
and what has he not got, that such good men like Nelson Pass, Bob Cordell and John Curl have.
AKSA Amplifiers are classics in diyaudio & could deserve to be given some service here to owners of these good diy amplifiers.
If nobody else starts an Official AKSA Technical Advice
or
AKSA Askenamplifieras. Howto build for good result
... me, Lineup, will have to do this myself.
And believe me .. if nothing happens, I will do this new topic
and get my credits, readers, along in the package for doing this.
Regards to
rabbitz
anatech .. and of course to the man himself:
Hugh 'AKSA' Dean .. a true www.diyaudio.com man from down under
Lineup 🙂 North of Sweden, Summer of 2009
.
Small point 😱
IF 150hours of burning in BGs are fore real, wouldnt that mean 150hours of PLAYING music, and not done with just powered on amps idling along
Anyway, I have an Advantage that by the designer was supposed to take about 3months of burning in, due to a very special buffer
I believe it took a lot more than just 3months
🙂
IF 150hours of burning in BGs are fore real, wouldnt that mean 150hours of PLAYING music, and not done with just powered on amps idling along
Anyway, I have an Advantage that by the designer was supposed to take about 3months of burning in, due to a very special buffer
I believe it took a lot more than just 3months
🙂
I can only comment on my own experience. For my first AKSA 55N+ upgrade I tried the cap rack to do a pre burn in and made no difference. When installed I still had to go through the 150 odd hours of playing before they settled. Once settled I never had a return of the strange behaviour even if the amp wasn't used for extended periods (months).
Hugh spells this out in the instructions with comments such as "The Black Gates........, require a long bedding in period, with some reporting erratic performance up to 1000 hours........ sadly there is no way to accelerate this process".
From other AKSA N+ owners on Hugh's forum it seems like 100-200 hours is a common period and can't remember anyone reporting substantial periods beyond that.
Hugh spells this out in the instructions with comments such as "The Black Gates........, require a long bedding in period, with some reporting erratic performance up to 1000 hours........ sadly there is no way to accelerate this process".
From other AKSA N+ owners on Hugh's forum it seems like 100-200 hours is a common period and can't remember anyone reporting substantial periods beyond that.
Ok
Just a stupid question
During burn in, are these caps working properly at all, doing what they are supposed to do
Could poor sound during burn in be related to that issue 🙄
Just a stupid question
During burn in, are these caps working properly at all, doing what they are supposed to do
Could poor sound during burn in be related to that issue 🙄
I made tests here with my people.
My Dx Amplifier with black gates Hugh Dean, Greg Erskine and Rabbitz sent me.
I thank you my dear friends...by your cooperative movement, the nice gift and the good intentions about..but i cannot be, ethernally feeding such kind of illusions i am unable to perceive (this is a chance to you..to say intimatelly to yourselves..that i cannot listen..that i am no good to listen...deaf)... i hope you do not think i am ungratefull just because i disagree with that.
I told folks into the first amplifier playing that no black gates were intalled there...they listened and said "sounded good."
Then i told folks the second amplifier was playing with black gates installed..was the other channel, really having black gates... they said "sounded different"..bass was poor, treble was better (obvious result when you loose basses..trebles SEEMS to be stronger..not real... just bass was reduced)
Then i told folks, third time.... that no black gates were installed... the amplifier was playing with common capacitors... they said ....."more bass"
Then i have made more three rounds saying that "now you're listening with black gates installed" ...they said less bass and more trebles.
BUT THOSE LAST THREE ROUNDS I HAVE NOT PLAYED BLACK GATES.... i was lying to them to see if they are fooling themselves or not..if the word "black gate" were influencing the results or not.
they were influenced by the name "Black gate"...and then the evaluation was fooled by that.
I really think, in many moments..people fool themselves with that stuff.
There's also an advantage to amplifier designers... if you complain they may say you have not used the capacitors he suggested...that your selection mix was an unhappy solution.
A mythic figure those black gates.... brain wash material more than real effective result into audio reproduction.... sorry to disagree to many valuable, clever and experienced folks..but i really think people use to fool themselves a lot!
I use to say that normally i use to remove black gates because i have not patience to be waiting them burn in..this is to respect my friends that believe in such things..in the reality i do not believe in magic or superior performance components....but i believe into the influences those things creates into people perception and evaluation.
I just remove them immediatelly....i do not want them..sounds with lower bass level as i could see...i do not like...i love basses... and also people say they will be changing sonics performance...i do not want, EVEN to see (hear, or experience) that stuff..as changing sound seems "errors and distortion" to me".... as there are a not a large frontier between effect and defect.
Also i do not believe in Santa Klaus, in Anjos and in Flying sauces.... i have doubts about re-encarnation, paradise and all that stuff..but i believe in mind energy, telephatic transmitions and good or bad influences because positive and negative energies people produce thinking (wodoo)...you see..i have my crazy beliefs too...i am not perfect too.
regards,
"Deaf, incompetent to hear subtle details" accept the tittle not to loose friends... signing here.
...............................................
Dear Tinitus
I will believe varnish type and number of varnish coating into a violine is changing sound only if you produce two identical, one with varnish and other without and i produce a blind test with someone playing one and other to me..and if, you could detect the one with varnish coating applied 80 percent of those tries... without that test..i will say, always..that is an illusion.
My Dx Amplifier with black gates Hugh Dean, Greg Erskine and Rabbitz sent me.
I thank you my dear friends...by your cooperative movement, the nice gift and the good intentions about..but i cannot be, ethernally feeding such kind of illusions i am unable to perceive (this is a chance to you..to say intimatelly to yourselves..that i cannot listen..that i am no good to listen...deaf)... i hope you do not think i am ungratefull just because i disagree with that.
I told folks into the first amplifier playing that no black gates were intalled there...they listened and said "sounded good."
Then i told folks the second amplifier was playing with black gates installed..was the other channel, really having black gates... they said "sounded different"..bass was poor, treble was better (obvious result when you loose basses..trebles SEEMS to be stronger..not real... just bass was reduced)
Then i told folks, third time.... that no black gates were installed... the amplifier was playing with common capacitors... they said ....."more bass"
Then i have made more three rounds saying that "now you're listening with black gates installed" ...they said less bass and more trebles.
BUT THOSE LAST THREE ROUNDS I HAVE NOT PLAYED BLACK GATES.... i was lying to them to see if they are fooling themselves or not..if the word "black gate" were influencing the results or not.
they were influenced by the name "Black gate"...and then the evaluation was fooled by that.
I really think, in many moments..people fool themselves with that stuff.
There's also an advantage to amplifier designers... if you complain they may say you have not used the capacitors he suggested...that your selection mix was an unhappy solution.
A mythic figure those black gates.... brain wash material more than real effective result into audio reproduction.... sorry to disagree to many valuable, clever and experienced folks..but i really think people use to fool themselves a lot!
I use to say that normally i use to remove black gates because i have not patience to be waiting them burn in..this is to respect my friends that believe in such things..in the reality i do not believe in magic or superior performance components....but i believe into the influences those things creates into people perception and evaluation.
I just remove them immediatelly....i do not want them..sounds with lower bass level as i could see...i do not like...i love basses... and also people say they will be changing sonics performance...i do not want, EVEN to see (hear, or experience) that stuff..as changing sound seems "errors and distortion" to me".... as there are a not a large frontier between effect and defect.
Also i do not believe in Santa Klaus, in Anjos and in Flying sauces.... i have doubts about re-encarnation, paradise and all that stuff..but i believe in mind energy, telephatic transmitions and good or bad influences because positive and negative energies people produce thinking (wodoo)...you see..i have my crazy beliefs too...i am not perfect too.
regards,
"Deaf, incompetent to hear subtle details" accept the tittle not to loose friends... signing here.
...............................................
Dear Tinitus
I will believe varnish type and number of varnish coating into a violine is changing sound only if you produce two identical, one with varnish and other without and i produce a blind test with someone playing one and other to me..and if, you could detect the one with varnish coating applied 80 percent of those tries... without that test..i will say, always..that is an illusion.
I can hear a cap burning in... on tube amps were they are more solicited you can literally hear the cap changing the sound tone.
This is a very interesting thread on how to build a diy amplifier, we could put together a simple manual and delete all these posts , and do a resume of the basic information contained here?
Like:
1. DIY kits are not guaranteed to work because
2. It is the responsibility of the buyer to assemble, test, correct mistakes.
3. The seller should give all the necessary information on how to repair it and how to integrate it to other equipment as well as giving tips.
4. The buyer should do only modifications with the consent of the seller, any modifications not approved void the responsibility of the seller.
5. If the builder/buyer is unable to complete with satisfaction the design and get the average performance he should pay a qualified technician or seller to complete the work and correct mistakes.
6. Forum should be fun 🙂
7. This is just a draft
This is a very interesting thread on how to build a diy amplifier, we could put together a simple manual and delete all these posts , and do a resume of the basic information contained here?
Like:
1. DIY kits are not guaranteed to work because
2. It is the responsibility of the buyer to assemble, test, correct mistakes.
3. The seller should give all the necessary information on how to repair it and how to integrate it to other equipment as well as giving tips.
4. The buyer should do only modifications with the consent of the seller, any modifications not approved void the responsibility of the seller.
5. If the builder/buyer is unable to complete with satisfaction the design and get the average performance he should pay a qualified technician or seller to complete the work and correct mistakes.
6. Forum should be fun 🙂
7. This is just a draft
Hi rabbitz,
Not really, I just get more determined now and again. That's why I feel more sensitive about the value of posting in some threads.
How are you doing?
This is where I get a little suspicious of the motives.
-Chris
Not really, I just get more determined now and again. That's why I feel more sensitive about the value of posting in some threads.
How are you doing?
We are indeed. However, I could see that applying reason will not work early on. What we need are cold, hard facts to guide us, especially when the person we are trying to help is difficult to exchange ideas with. My view must be from the technical side of things if we ever hope to solve situations like this. Otherwise we end up talking about philosophy and how things should be with a kit. I think that is exactly where Kenji wants things to be. Assigning blame will not solve the problem, and I have my own feelings on that score.
We are in complete agreement with this, and everything else before this quote.
That is true, and I will not ask for them as it is Hugh's IP we are talking about.
Ahhh, I didn't know that. How close is the wiring on Kenji's build to the standard? I have no way to know, I just know what I can see that's wrong from experience.
Exactly.
This is where I get a little suspicious of the motives.
We were. In fact, I have just done that now. I would have split it last night, but I wanted to get input from the moderating team first, and also rest up. I had gone over my energy budget last night. Boy, can I ever feel it today! I think I got everything that had to come over. I'll have to check the original thread to make sure.
-Chris
yep...good ideas... let see if Line up likes that.
then he can open that thread if he likes that idea.
It seems interesting...and he love interesting things to open threads...his threads are always very interesting.
His friend, Halojoy, have opened the most interesting thread.
"post your ugly constructions here".
ahahahah!
that one was the best.... was Halojoy that opened that one.
regards,
Carlos
then he can open that thread if he likes that idea.
It seems interesting...and he love interesting things to open threads...his threads are always very interesting.
His friend, Halojoy, have opened the most interesting thread.
"post your ugly constructions here".
ahahahah!
that one was the best.... was Halojoy that opened that one.
regards,
Carlos
Hi Gabdx1,
Well, I have just split this thread off the original since it really was a case of thread jacking. So now we have another thread just for Professor smith.
Troubleshooting must be held to very simple things, such as measuring for blown fuses and proper power supply voltages. Setting bias and checking DC offset are basic skills that the kit builder could be shown how to do, but that is all. To teach someone how to troubleshoot may involve teaching an electronics course. This would be the case here. That would be an unreasonable request I think.
You do have a good grasp of where the responsibilities are. Everyone must take responsibility for their own actions. This concept is sadly lacking in today's world.
-Chris
Well, I have just split this thread off the original since it really was a case of thread jacking. So now we have another thread just for Professor smith.
I agree with your list there, but this passage needs some limits. The seller of the kit can not know how the kit will be used in all circumstances. However, I do believe they should indicate how to integrate it into a normal system.
Troubleshooting must be held to very simple things, such as measuring for blown fuses and proper power supply voltages. Setting bias and checking DC offset are basic skills that the kit builder could be shown how to do, but that is all. To teach someone how to troubleshoot may involve teaching an electronics course. This would be the case here. That would be an unreasonable request I think.
You do have a good grasp of where the responsibilities are. Everyone must take responsibility for their own actions. This concept is sadly lacking in today's world.
-Chris
I am happy the thread was splitted...happy and celebrating that good
organization we forum can have.
Now it is much better..now Kenji has a problem..and i am here with a helping hand to help.
heheheheh.
Kidding...will try to help, as now it is not "burning aksa"...now it is "Helping Mr. professor".
Thanks to the one(s) had that idea.
regards,
Carlos
......................................................................
Small image is a helping hand.
ahahahahahah!..... kidding... i am not that bad!
organization we forum can have.
Now it is much better..now Kenji has a problem..and i am here with a helping hand to help.
heheheheh.
Kidding...will try to help, as now it is not "burning aksa"...now it is "Helping Mr. professor".
Thanks to the one(s) had that idea.
regards,
Carlos
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
......................................................................
Small image is a helping hand.
ahahahahahah!..... kidding... i am not that bad!
Attachments
Re: I am happy the thread was splitted...happy and celebrating that good
Are you sure?
You are kidding, I mean.
😉
destroyer X said:
Are you sure?
You are kidding, I mean.
😉
Hi Carlos,
.22 LR?
or is it .25 cal? I would think that .32 would be larger.
That's just the fly swatters they use down there, right Carlos?
-Chris
.22 LR?
or is it .25 cal? I would think that .32 would be larger.
That's just the fly swatters they use down there, right Carlos?
-Chris
Very small... serves for nothing..it is just a pretty toy
.22 long rifle.... 7 shots...old unit made in Rio Grande do Sul.... a southern state we have with Italian and German imigrants.
Factory is Rossi... Italian name... we have also Taurus (used by US police) and another one called INA ... also we have Beretta..double barreled 12 gauge shot guns.
Arms are not very popular here... government asked us to trow away..they have smashed thousands into public places with a celebration of non sense....now thieves are free to have weapons..and we cannot have them.
Crazy things.
Well..thanks a lot.
Let's see if Professor Smith really wants something..now i will help..as this is no more "hugh dean smashing thread"
regards,
Carlos
.22 long rifle.... 7 shots...old unit made in Rio Grande do Sul.... a southern state we have with Italian and German imigrants.
Factory is Rossi... Italian name... we have also Taurus (used by US police) and another one called INA ... also we have Beretta..double barreled 12 gauge shot guns.
Arms are not very popular here... government asked us to trow away..they have smashed thousands into public places with a celebration of non sense....now thieves are free to have weapons..and we cannot have them.
Crazy things.
Well..thanks a lot.
Let's see if Professor Smith really wants something..now i will help..as this is no more "hugh dean smashing thread"
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
One thing I will say though is that I feel intimidated to ask for help. I do not feel free to ask what I want. I feel that I AM being bullied into accepting peoples opinion without questioning and when an argument occurs I will be blamed.
Sometimes you have to argue against a proposition to gain understanding. Suppose we want to prove X. Instead we can disprove not X.
Again suppose we want to prove that oscillation is occuring in the amp. Then we can instead disprove that oscillation is not occuring.
Sometimes you have to argue against a proposition to gain understanding. Suppose we want to prove X. Instead we can disprove not X.
Again suppose we want to prove that oscillation is occuring in the amp. Then we can instead disprove that oscillation is not occuring.
Kenji,
There is a very easy way to tell if an amp is oscillating.
I'm very confident this is not the problem, however, because the amp is stable even with electrostatic speakers, which are difficult to drive. But layout can influence this so we should check.
After playing normal music at moderate levels for half an hour, place your finger on the 10R 1 watt resistor, R19, which is under the board to the right of center.
This resistor, together with C9, the small grey 100nF 160V polypropylene cap on the right side of the pcb just above the negative power connection, forms the Zobel. It's purpose is to load the amp down at high frequency to ensure stability. If the amp is oscillating, and audio amps of this type normally have a pole near 1MHz, this resistor will become very hot to touch. In fact, it should be quite cool, at or very slightly above ambient temperature in normal operation.
The usual cause of oscillation for any PP SS amp is either a highly reactive load, like an ES speaker, or a strong coupling between input and output because the input leads are placed close to the output rail. This coupling causes positive feedback, which creates instability. Solution: ensure all input signal wires are far from power and output wires.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Hugh
There is a very easy way to tell if an amp is oscillating.
I'm very confident this is not the problem, however, because the amp is stable even with electrostatic speakers, which are difficult to drive. But layout can influence this so we should check.
After playing normal music at moderate levels for half an hour, place your finger on the 10R 1 watt resistor, R19, which is under the board to the right of center.
This resistor, together with C9, the small grey 100nF 160V polypropylene cap on the right side of the pcb just above the negative power connection, forms the Zobel. It's purpose is to load the amp down at high frequency to ensure stability. If the amp is oscillating, and audio amps of this type normally have a pole near 1MHz, this resistor will become very hot to touch. In fact, it should be quite cool, at or very slightly above ambient temperature in normal operation.
The usual cause of oscillation for any PP SS amp is either a highly reactive load, like an ES speaker, or a strong coupling between input and output because the input leads are placed close to the output rail. This coupling causes positive feedback, which creates instability. Solution: ensure all input signal wires are far from power and output wires.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Hugh
thanks Hugh. I will check this.
I also have a few of those Rf clamps which clamp onto cables. Is it a good idea to fit some of these either inside the amp on the wires, or on the power cable from the mains entering the amp?
I also have a few of those Rf clamps which clamp onto cables. Is it a good idea to fit some of these either inside the amp on the wires, or on the power cable from the mains entering the amp?
Hi Kenji,
Please allow me to point a couple things out for you.
You are not educated in the field of electronics. To learn, you must take the word of others on faith or be prepared to study yourself or pay to take the courses to learn. You are certainly in no position to challenge what others who are trained say.
To ask questions and get answers, you need to be humble and thankful to those from whom you seek answers. No one has to help you out. There is no code saying any of us must help out another person. You are prevailing upon our collective good nature for assistance. You need assistance, of that there is no doubt.
If you feel something may not make sense, you can ask for clarification, but you can not challenge what was said. You simply do not know enough to have any reason to challenge any answer. Picking out what you like from what was said will not get you very far. We are dealing with a scientific issue that requires factual answers. The best you can do is to study yourself and read some actual text books based in science. Reading other forums, posts or asking for opposing views until you hear what you like will not help you in any way at all.
When given a course of action to follow, execute the suggestions to the best of your ability. Ask reasonable questions if you run into problems or become confused. However, remember that this is your problem and no one else's. That means that you will do the most work. It also means that you are the one who will study to learn something. It surely is not up to any of us to teach you things that cost us thousands of dollars to learn and took years out of our lives. This would take years of hard work from you and whoever. Doesn't sound fair to me at all.
Now, I have spelled out exactly what you really need to do, and why you need to do it. I suggested ways for you to be able to use instruments that you do not have. Other members have also made some good suggestions as well. You need to get up and work on these things yourself.
I have really tried to help you. I do try to help people as I can, and have for years. There is no point in leading you off as a joke. in fact, that is a waste of my valuable time. In fact, I could have spent the time I have spent with you to help other people how will listen. So I have a few days of productivity completely wasted because ..... why? I don't know. As long as you refuse to assist yourself, everyone has wasted their time with you. I am a little upset because I do have so very little time I can be productive in a day. It really bugs me that other members didn't get helped because we were beating our heads against a wall trying to help you. And you don't trust us??! Really! Why on earth would all these people try to help you? Look around in the various forums. Read some threads where the community here got together to help someone out. This would be the proof you need to trust us, just look around. You want to know about me? Simple. Look up threads and posts I have participated in and read!. I think most will be in earlier 2008 and earlier as I have not been well for a bit now. But do read how the members here in this thread have helped others. Honestly, if that does not prove our good intentions, lock yourself up in a room and hide from everyone.
Did you rewire your amplifier yet?
On this oscillation thing, Hugh doesn't think you need to worry about that. I do not know what was contained in your exchange, so I am starting from basics. You absolutely must answer some questions with facts, not conclusions. So, prove this one way or the other. One thing is for sure though. the less someone knows, The more clear the testing must be. You might be able to get away with an RF detector probe, but you haven't a clue how to interpret the readings. You still will not know if you have some minor distortion that may lead you to the fault. So the 'scope is the simplest way to get right to the heart of what may be going on. You would test for a couple other things at the same time.
Give me a break!!
No. I have taken you to task for debating endlessly with everyone instead of simply following the suggestions. On top of that, you wait until someone posts something you want to hear and then use that as an excuse to debate further, and to avoid performing any tests. Understand this one more time. Many people here have been involved in the Electronics field, or audio, for longer than you have been alive! Every answer has been given to you in good faith, but all we get in return is a lack of respect and a debate about whatever you can think of. Put yourself in out shoes for a bit - to yourself and be honest. I personally don't care what you come up with, just be honest with yourself. Then, adjust the way you have been dealing with everyone.
BTW, I did read your threads concerning the B1 build. You pulled the same stuff before and didn't learn then either. "Poor me" will not fly here.
What I want you to do is this. Get off your behind and try some suggestions. Rewire first and try it again. This is the most likely issue and you may solve your problems this way. You have three more options if it isn't fixed.
1. Find someone who can help you with an oscilloscope.
2. Take it into a good shop and PAY someone to repair it.
3. Walk away from this kit, and any more kits. Buy what you want retail as a completed, functioning unit. Do not buy used and sell whatever it is if it has a problem, buy a new one at that point.
There are no more options. No more situations to think about. It is as simple as that. Everything is up to you, you make the decisions. But don't complain about the path you choose.
-Chris
Please allow me to point a couple things out for you.
You are not educated in the field of electronics. To learn, you must take the word of others on faith or be prepared to study yourself or pay to take the courses to learn. You are certainly in no position to challenge what others who are trained say.
To ask questions and get answers, you need to be humble and thankful to those from whom you seek answers. No one has to help you out. There is no code saying any of us must help out another person. You are prevailing upon our collective good nature for assistance. You need assistance, of that there is no doubt.
If you feel something may not make sense, you can ask for clarification, but you can not challenge what was said. You simply do not know enough to have any reason to challenge any answer. Picking out what you like from what was said will not get you very far. We are dealing with a scientific issue that requires factual answers. The best you can do is to study yourself and read some actual text books based in science. Reading other forums, posts or asking for opposing views until you hear what you like will not help you in any way at all.
When given a course of action to follow, execute the suggestions to the best of your ability. Ask reasonable questions if you run into problems or become confused. However, remember that this is your problem and no one else's. That means that you will do the most work. It also means that you are the one who will study to learn something. It surely is not up to any of us to teach you things that cost us thousands of dollars to learn and took years out of our lives. This would take years of hard work from you and whoever. Doesn't sound fair to me at all.
Now, I have spelled out exactly what you really need to do, and why you need to do it. I suggested ways for you to be able to use instruments that you do not have. Other members have also made some good suggestions as well. You need to get up and work on these things yourself.
I have really tried to help you. I do try to help people as I can, and have for years. There is no point in leading you off as a joke. in fact, that is a waste of my valuable time. In fact, I could have spent the time I have spent with you to help other people how will listen. So I have a few days of productivity completely wasted because ..... why? I don't know. As long as you refuse to assist yourself, everyone has wasted their time with you. I am a little upset because I do have so very little time I can be productive in a day. It really bugs me that other members didn't get helped because we were beating our heads against a wall trying to help you. And you don't trust us??! Really! Why on earth would all these people try to help you? Look around in the various forums. Read some threads where the community here got together to help someone out. This would be the proof you need to trust us, just look around. You want to know about me? Simple. Look up threads and posts I have participated in and read!. I think most will be in earlier 2008 and earlier as I have not been well for a bit now. But do read how the members here in this thread have helped others. Honestly, if that does not prove our good intentions, lock yourself up in a room and hide from everyone.
Did you rewire your amplifier yet?
Then, what exactly do you want from us? Post clearly and completely.
Yes, but only if you are a peer. You have to be well versed in the subject before you are qualified to argue any points.
Then the same procedure is followed in testing. The main difference is that I keep an open mind and follow the results. Instead, your going in with a mindset. That will color how you see things, ask any technician, doctor or detective.
Hey! I'm fine with either answer. The point is that you must prove you have found the correct answer. The only thing I care about is what is actually happening. Whatever is going on, you need to know for sure. Word games will not help you at all.
On this oscillation thing, Hugh doesn't think you need to worry about that. I do not know what was contained in your exchange, so I am starting from basics. You absolutely must answer some questions with facts, not conclusions. So, prove this one way or the other. One thing is for sure though. the less someone knows, The more clear the testing must be. You might be able to get away with an RF detector probe, but you haven't a clue how to interpret the readings. You still will not know if you have some minor distortion that may lead you to the fault. So the 'scope is the simplest way to get right to the heart of what may be going on. You would test for a couple other things at the same time.
I saved this one for last.
Give me a break!!
No. I have taken you to task for debating endlessly with everyone instead of simply following the suggestions. On top of that, you wait until someone posts something you want to hear and then use that as an excuse to debate further, and to avoid performing any tests. Understand this one more time. Many people here have been involved in the Electronics field, or audio, for longer than you have been alive! Every answer has been given to you in good faith, but all we get in return is a lack of respect and a debate about whatever you can think of. Put yourself in out shoes for a bit - to yourself and be honest. I personally don't care what you come up with, just be honest with yourself. Then, adjust the way you have been dealing with everyone.
BTW, I did read your threads concerning the B1 build. You pulled the same stuff before and didn't learn then either. "Poor me" will not fly here.
What I want you to do is this. Get off your behind and try some suggestions. Rewire first and try it again. This is the most likely issue and you may solve your problems this way. You have three more options if it isn't fixed.
1. Find someone who can help you with an oscilloscope.
2. Take it into a good shop and PAY someone to repair it.
3. Walk away from this kit, and any more kits. Buy what you want retail as a completed, functioning unit. Do not buy used and sell whatever it is if it has a problem, buy a new one at that point.
There are no more options. No more situations to think about. It is as simple as that. Everything is up to you, you make the decisions. But don't complain about the path you choose.
-Chris
Hi Hugh,
You can also have a low level oscillation that will not warm up the zobel resistor. You may also only oscillate in bursts as the waveform gets near either supply or through zero. Again, this has nothing at all to do with the quality of the amplifier. It has everything to do with gain, frequency response and wire positioning.
In the above two cases, you do need an oscilloscope, or an FFT spectrum analyzer to detect the problems.
Hugh, I don't know what the two of you talked about while solving these issues earlier. I don't really care about the details, but some idea of suggestions and results would have helped us. That list should have come from Kenji to assist us when he asked for help. Withholding that information materially damaged our ability to help him out. It was not wise not to disclose the earlier attempts to us in any event.
To summarize, I do agree with you that full oscillation would burn that resistor. It is one of the things I look at when beginning an amplifier repair that had failed hot. I think the misunderstanding took place because I didn't specify low level or RF bursts when talking about this. Remember that we are talking about a sound quality problem, not horrible distortion with heat pouring out of the chassis.
How would you determine if we had RF bursts or low level oscillations?
Best, Chris
That is exactly why we are checking.
True with conditions. You are assuming full bore oscillation. I am not. Amplifiers can oscillate continuously at lower levels even if they are stable as a rock. In fact, the way the wires are run can make any stable, well designed amplifier to oscillate. This may be a large amplitude, but there is nothing smoking. That means we do not have this type of fault.
You can also have a low level oscillation that will not warm up the zobel resistor. You may also only oscillate in bursts as the waveform gets near either supply or through zero. Again, this has nothing at all to do with the quality of the amplifier. It has everything to do with gain, frequency response and wire positioning.
Also add having power supply wires near input sections or wires. Input capacitance can sometimes cause instability as well, or lack thereof.
In the above two cases, you do need an oscilloscope, or an FFT spectrum analyzer to detect the problems.
This is exactly why he was asked to rewire the unit correctly.
Hugh, I don't know what the two of you talked about while solving these issues earlier. I don't really care about the details, but some idea of suggestions and results would have helped us. That list should have come from Kenji to assist us when he asked for help. Withholding that information materially damaged our ability to help him out. It was not wise not to disclose the earlier attempts to us in any event.
To summarize, I do agree with you that full oscillation would burn that resistor. It is one of the things I look at when beginning an amplifier repair that had failed hot. I think the misunderstanding took place because I didn't specify low level or RF bursts when talking about this. Remember that we are talking about a sound quality problem, not horrible distortion with heat pouring out of the chassis.
How would you determine if we had RF bursts or low level oscillations?
Best, Chris
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