Professor smith said:
Professor Smith, in post # 125 of this thread Chris (Anatech) has already given you some excellent advice about lead dress.
Also several examples have been given for a good layout.
Please reread post #125 and if there are parts you don't understand, ask specific questions.
Before you do any rewiring, you really should verify that your probe slipping hasn't damaged the amplifier.
Klaas
Dear Klaas,
That is what you told me a short while ago.
Please be specific as to why you think my rewiring is still bad. Then I can understand and try to fix things.
My rewiring was based on Hughs layout by the way. Mine looks very similar to his.
Why not ask Hugh to check out your amp
Professor Smith
You need expert help. Why not send your amp to Hugh or an expert to measure and possibly fix and bring this saga to a speedy close?
Regards
Jozua
Professor Smith
You need expert help. Why not send your amp to Hugh or an expert to measure and possibly fix and bring this saga to a speedy close?
Regards
Jozua
Hi Kenji,
Arc marks: Are not so hard to find normally. Apply yourself and look under good light. We don't deal in "probabilities", we deal with facts and evidence. Please have a good look and confirm where the arc or spark came from. Also, removing a fuse is not difficult. Why even ask whether to remove it or not? Just do it, it takes seconds to accomplish this task. Yes, fuses should always be removed and tested with an ohmmeter if you want to be sure. Of course, you could apply power and measure if there is any DC or AC voltage across a fuse. Note that an output fuse would require that you apply an audio signal to generate a voltage drop.
I have a couple questions for you at this point in time. I think there is not much else that can be said until some review has taken place. Many questions have been skilfully, and correctly answered already. These issues continue to pop up as though they have never been addressed. This is somewhat disrespectful to those people who have taken the time and energy to attempt to assist you. Your questions have been answered in good faith, and we would expect you to take that information with the intent to accept and make sense of it. There are fewer conflicts than you make things out to be.
What do your responses so far look like to an outsider?
Well, to me it appears as though you would rather negate as many suggestions as possible, then ignore the balance. It would appear that you do not have an open mind at all and are convinced that there is nothing you have done imperfectly. I say imperfectly instead of incorrectly in hopes that the definition change would allow you to consider the many good suggestions you have received so far.
Question: Have you determined how you are going to learn about electronics?
Question: Is there any suggestion you feel might provide the answer that will get you where you wish to go?
Question: Are there any suggestions that you feel are not helpful, and why?
Question: Do you intend to dismount the modules, plan a layout and redo your project? Will you also consider the wiring hints you have received so far throughout this thread?
That's it Kenji. I'm not on a mission of blame. I am really trying to get you in a position where you can learn what you need to know so that you will enjoy the hobby. Keep in mind that many of us here earned a living either in audio specifically, or a related field. You are getting responses from actual real experts in their fields of study. These people are well beyond debating theory as they deal with electronics as it actually is applied in real life. Listen to them, look up their bios and posting experience if you feel unsure of their knowledge.
Started my reply around 1:25 and just finishing it now. Kenji, it does take me some effort to post. Do me a favor and respect what people are telling you.
-Chris
All previous suggestions and details made to you are still valid. Go back and look please. Your answers have been presented to you already.
Arc marks: Are not so hard to find normally. Apply yourself and look under good light. We don't deal in "probabilities", we deal with facts and evidence. Please have a good look and confirm where the arc or spark came from. Also, removing a fuse is not difficult. Why even ask whether to remove it or not? Just do it, it takes seconds to accomplish this task. Yes, fuses should always be removed and tested with an ohmmeter if you want to be sure. Of course, you could apply power and measure if there is any DC or AC voltage across a fuse. Note that an output fuse would require that you apply an audio signal to generate a voltage drop.
I have a couple questions for you at this point in time. I think there is not much else that can be said until some review has taken place. Many questions have been skilfully, and correctly answered already. These issues continue to pop up as though they have never been addressed. This is somewhat disrespectful to those people who have taken the time and energy to attempt to assist you. Your questions have been answered in good faith, and we would expect you to take that information with the intent to accept and make sense of it. There are fewer conflicts than you make things out to be.
What do your responses so far look like to an outsider?
Well, to me it appears as though you would rather negate as many suggestions as possible, then ignore the balance. It would appear that you do not have an open mind at all and are convinced that there is nothing you have done imperfectly. I say imperfectly instead of incorrectly in hopes that the definition change would allow you to consider the many good suggestions you have received so far.
Question: Have you determined how you are going to learn about electronics?
Question: Is there any suggestion you feel might provide the answer that will get you where you wish to go?
Question: Are there any suggestions that you feel are not helpful, and why?
Question: Do you intend to dismount the modules, plan a layout and redo your project? Will you also consider the wiring hints you have received so far throughout this thread?
That's it Kenji. I'm not on a mission of blame. I am really trying to get you in a position where you can learn what you need to know so that you will enjoy the hobby. Keep in mind that many of us here earned a living either in audio specifically, or a related field. You are getting responses from actual real experts in their fields of study. These people are well beyond debating theory as they deal with electronics as it actually is applied in real life. Listen to them, look up their bios and posting experience if you feel unsure of their knowledge.
Started my reply around 1:25 and just finishing it now. Kenji, it does take me some effort to post. Do me a favor and respect what people are telling you.
-Chris
Hi Kenji,
Sorry, but that is my belief.
-Chris
"Looks similar" does not mean that it is correct. Different professionals may legitimately have varying viewpoints on how things are done. One person's opinion does not invalidate everyone else's. Hugh and I may have a different preference on how to do this, but I believe that the later pictured by rabbitz tends to force good wiring practices. The way Hugh has his done requires that the constructor understands internal wiring and completes this task using more experience. So while there is nothing wrong with Hugh's layout, your wiring is still very suspect.
Sorry, but that is my belief.
-Chris
Chris, its all very well said and wise points stated
I have no clew why he argues with those who use their precious
time to try and help
Mind you, very early I advised against messing with this amp
I kind of knew this might happen
And warranty gone now
I dont think anything will change, never thought it would
Pretty awful, but I believe those are the facts
Sometimes we have to face the reality that things doesnt seem to change the way we expect
Sometimes those things just happens, and how life is
Maybe look at other amps you may like better
Just another crappy post
I have no clew why he argues with those who use their precious
time to try and help
Mind you, very early I advised against messing with this amp
I kind of knew this might happen
And warranty gone now
I dont think anything will change, never thought it would
Pretty awful, but I believe those are the facts
Sometimes we have to face the reality that things doesnt seem to change the way we expect
Sometimes those things just happens, and how life is
Maybe look at other amps you may like better
Just another crappy post
Chris I emailed you but no response. I assume its deliberate. It makes it difficult to comunicate with you..
This is a situation where you and Hugh are giving different advice. I will take Hughs because he sold me the amp and he designed it. The bottom line is this. The amp is not broken despite the accident so I'm not going to start replacing parts. Hugh and Rabbitz have told me that if it's working and bias/dc offset/ rail voltages are fine then it's ok. They are all ok.
Secondly I may at some point in the future redo the layout in the way others have suggested. However let me quote what you said just now.
You have not presented me any factual evidence that my amplifier and wire layout is causing the amplifier to oscillate and that this is what is causing the variation in sound. Am I right here?
As far as I can see its all speculation and I feel uncomfortable about that.
Is it the fact that the input wires are too close to the speaker wires? If so, how much further apart would you suggest?
Please be specific.
Finally if the wiring is to blame, and it stays the same, why would the sound VARY?
thanks.
This is a situation where you and Hugh are giving different advice. I will take Hughs because he sold me the amp and he designed it. The bottom line is this. The amp is not broken despite the accident so I'm not going to start replacing parts. Hugh and Rabbitz have told me that if it's working and bias/dc offset/ rail voltages are fine then it's ok. They are all ok.
Secondly I may at some point in the future redo the layout in the way others have suggested. However let me quote what you said just now.
You have not presented me any factual evidence that my amplifier and wire layout is causing the amplifier to oscillate and that this is what is causing the variation in sound. Am I right here?
As far as I can see its all speculation and I feel uncomfortable about that.
Is it the fact that the input wires are too close to the speaker wires? If so, how much further apart would you suggest?
Please be specific.
Finally if the wiring is to blame, and it stays the same, why would the sound VARY?
thanks.
Have you confirmed (via actual EVIDENCE) that this is the case? Ghosts are very difficult things to chase... The one most likely issue here is the large computer between your ears. You might want to eliminate that variable first before driving yourself and everyone else crazy.
Kenji,
Your layout is fine. Neatness could be better, but it will work fine and should give no hum.
You really should fight the impulse to take advice from people and then attempt to set them against each other, as you have done with advice from Chris and me. People understandably get very upset about this, and soon withdraw.
If they do, it's YOUR fault, not their's. Just as you are concerned not to lose face on the forum, so too are others, and if you set two professionals against each other to save your bacon then both will tell you to go jump.
Why don't you give us a rest, take a break of a week or so with the amp on and playing, and then start over? Don't know about you, but I need a holiday, and it's not as if any of us are becoming millionaires trying to help you.....
Stuart,
I watched a doco recently about Evel Knievel, who lives in Butte. He was very sick, a broken man. Is he still alive, in fact?
Cheers,
Hugh
Your layout is fine. Neatness could be better, but it will work fine and should give no hum.
You really should fight the impulse to take advice from people and then attempt to set them against each other, as you have done with advice from Chris and me. People understandably get very upset about this, and soon withdraw.
If they do, it's YOUR fault, not their's. Just as you are concerned not to lose face on the forum, so too are others, and if you set two professionals against each other to save your bacon then both will tell you to go jump.
Why don't you give us a rest, take a break of a week or so with the amp on and playing, and then start over? Don't know about you, but I need a holiday, and it's not as if any of us are becoming millionaires trying to help you.....
Stuart,
I watched a doco recently about Evel Knievel, who lives in Butte. He was very sick, a broken man. Is he still alive, in fact?
Cheers,
Hugh
SY said:
You see you have raised another issue. You are correct. I cannot prove that what is varying is the equipment or my 'imagination'.
But just consider the fact that I have assumed the sound is varying and others have assumed based on my assumption that improper wiring is causing the amp to oscillate.
An assumption based on an assumption is 'worse' than an assumption alone no?
This is so freaking redicioulous. This amp offers sometimes some cool sounds but it is also kind of limited. If you cannot find a solution to your problem You need to return or exchange this amp module. End of story.
Hi Kenji,
Now, I am buried in email and perhaps I have not seen your email yet. I would ask what you need to ask off line, but I guess I will know once I find your mail.
It is not up to anyone to prove anything except for you. The onus is on you to do the legwork and make measurements using various pieces of test equipment. If you don't have it, there are many ways for you to gain access to any equipment you require. I suggested a couple of approaches.
The idea I introduced (oscillation) is only one possible explanation. I do not think your amplifier is necessarily oscillating or breaking into oscillation sporadically. I came up with one possible suggestion that is realistic. It is completely up to you to either set up and take those measurements, or pay someone to make them for you. End of story, you are the one providing observations. No one else can. To suggest anything else is pretty silly, wouldn't you say?
It is your complete failure to provide meaningful information to us that is the problem. This is not a math question or a debating exercise. This is making observations and following them to a logical conclusion.
No observations = no answer.
Debating any technical points without observations = a complete waste of our precious time.
I am tired of looking at your amp until you make a real attempt to consider suggestions from others in good faith.
You have at least on eye, I'll assume you have two functioning eyes. You have been presented with some photos of excellent builds. You are the one who owns an amplifier that you insist has a fault. You are the one who needs to "be specific". We are, by virtue of being remote, only required to do - nothing. If you get any suggestions, even vague, be grateful and keep your end of the bargain up. That would be to check what has been suggested.
The reasons we went to printed circuit board construction include:
1.) Ensuring each copy of a circuit performs similarly due to parasitic capacitance and inductance. Even resistance in some cases.
2.) Ensuring that absolutely no wires move. Small movements are possible due to handling or taking measurements.
Your assumption that the wires do not move is not valid. You can not argue anything using faulty assumptions. Stop. Use your head.
I did ask you a series of reasonable questions. You have not posted any answer to these.
I recommend that we all stop answering Kenji until he makes at least some feeble effort to solve his problems. Answering questions that were already put to him that remain unanswered would be a small step in the right direction.
Kenji, just answer the darn questions. They have some importance.
-Chris
I did have trouble with my email server, but the fault has been found and fixed. Watch out for conclusions not based on enough evidence.
Now, I am buried in email and perhaps I have not seen your email yet. I would ask what you need to ask off line, but I guess I will know once I find your mail.
I answered this exact point in my previous message. I can only assume you are not reading responses posted.
I have not recommended that you replace anything. Ever, unless you include some wire that may be getting short.
No, you are about as far from being "right" as you could possibly be.
It is not up to anyone to prove anything except for you. The onus is on you to do the legwork and make measurements using various pieces of test equipment. If you don't have it, there are many ways for you to gain access to any equipment you require. I suggested a couple of approaches.
The idea I introduced (oscillation) is only one possible explanation. I do not think your amplifier is necessarily oscillating or breaking into oscillation sporadically. I came up with one possible suggestion that is realistic. It is completely up to you to either set up and take those measurements, or pay someone to make them for you. End of story, you are the one providing observations. No one else can. To suggest anything else is pretty silly, wouldn't you say?
It is your complete failure to provide meaningful information to us that is the problem. This is not a math question or a debating exercise. This is making observations and following them to a logical conclusion.
No observations = no answer.
Debating any technical points without observations = a complete waste of our precious time.
The only one who is really speculating is you. You have every reason to feel uneasy. Without any understanding of electronics, you have exactly zero to go on, and zero reason to question most of us.
No idea.
I am tired of looking at your amp until you make a real attempt to consider suggestions from others in good faith.
How about .... no. Not a chance.
You have at least on eye, I'll assume you have two functioning eyes. You have been presented with some photos of excellent builds. You are the one who owns an amplifier that you insist has a fault. You are the one who needs to "be specific". We are, by virtue of being remote, only required to do - nothing. If you get any suggestions, even vague, be grateful and keep your end of the bargain up. That would be to check what has been suggested.
😱
The reasons we went to printed circuit board construction include:
1.) Ensuring each copy of a circuit performs similarly due to parasitic capacitance and inductance. Even resistance in some cases.
2.) Ensuring that absolutely no wires move. Small movements are possible due to handling or taking measurements.
Your assumption that the wires do not move is not valid. You can not argue anything using faulty assumptions. Stop. Use your head.
I did ask you a series of reasonable questions. You have not posted any answer to these.
I recommend that we all stop answering Kenji until he makes at least some feeble effort to solve his problems. Answering questions that were already put to him that remain unanswered would be a small step in the right direction.
Kenji, just answer the darn questions. They have some importance.
-Chris
Hi dan_pc,
I have requested that no one comment on what Hugh should do. Extensive email conversations between Hugh and Kenji have occurred. No one but Hugh and Kenji are privy to all those details and therefore are in no position to suggest anything.
Therefore, do not recommend anything that has to do with what Hugh should do.
Hugh has obviously tried many things here and he and Kenji have an understanding, or at least Hugh may. This is no business of ours.
Hi Jozua,
-Chris
I have requested that no one comment on what Hugh should do. Extensive email conversations between Hugh and Kenji have occurred. No one but Hugh and Kenji are privy to all those details and therefore are in no position to suggest anything.
Therefore, do not recommend anything that has to do with what Hugh should do.
Hugh has obviously tried many things here and he and Kenji have an understanding, or at least Hugh may. This is no business of ours.
Hi Jozua,
This was suggested many, many posts back. I can't see this happening. Of course I agree whole heartedly with you on that (except the part where it goes back to Hugh).
-Chris
Evel the Elder died a couple years ago. His son, who took on the name Evel, is still around. The Evel Knievel Days are a HUGE holiday here. The town population goes from 33,000 to almost 200,000 and the drinking would make the Irish envious.
I have no idea what you're talking about. Get the right tools or don't bother.
I would like to see this thread closed
Professor does not want to return the equipment..so..he do not want solution.. he wants to continue to complain...he said he wants, with us, to find the reasons of his complains..we do not even know if there's a real problem into the equipment or if this his mind creation.
So..forcing us to give him a fast electronic course..to teach him all our experience in a single thread... this is impossible.
Also he is prepared to discuss, has arguments, a highly trained man in logics and how to confuse other ones logics...clever... very, very clever.
If he really wanted the problems solved..and CHECKED if really exists a problem..he would have returned the equipment.
Close this thread..i am asking, in a very clear way...close the thread.... moderators does not need reasons and do not have to explain us reasons... moderators have not to ask our permission to close annoying threads that is going no where... even to educate us..to show limits when we use an open communicator alike forum and internet to trash people..to show us we must have some class and education, to protect and to respect our important members of the community, or tomorrow Nelson Pass will be smashed too..where is Nelson Pass guarantee that he will not be trashed in same way if we admit those things running in a open thread?... he may be afraigthned watching this..he may be the next one..someone dislike his amplifier and start to trash it this way.
The advantage Professor has, is that he is calm and cold ....or keep himself cold not beeing against rules..so...no one has reasons to punish him or close the annoying thread, i think, no one feel pleasant to see an important member of our communitty beeing smashed this way..with the nice amplifier beeing trashed..try to be into Hugh's place for a single moment.
Hugh cannot (he said nothing about..this is my OWN conclusion about) ask to close the thread..doing that he will admit his amplifier has problems and that he is trying to keep that hidden...he is a serious man and will never do that..he will continue to face that awfull sittuation from now to the ethernity.
Professor is clever.... i think he has high level of intelligence..much more than mine....my advantage is that i have several folks alike him in my country and i can detect the evil very easy.
If we wait for evidences... alike him to admit his intentions, to confess..will must to take a seat and wait in the most confortable way..as this will never happens..so...we must use our brain and think about, not to wait evidences that will never arrive.
Respectfully
Carlos Eugênio Mergulhão
Professor does not want to return the equipment..so..he do not want solution.. he wants to continue to complain...he said he wants, with us, to find the reasons of his complains..we do not even know if there's a real problem into the equipment or if this his mind creation.
So..forcing us to give him a fast electronic course..to teach him all our experience in a single thread... this is impossible.
Also he is prepared to discuss, has arguments, a highly trained man in logics and how to confuse other ones logics...clever... very, very clever.
If he really wanted the problems solved..and CHECKED if really exists a problem..he would have returned the equipment.
Close this thread..i am asking, in a very clear way...close the thread.... moderators does not need reasons and do not have to explain us reasons... moderators have not to ask our permission to close annoying threads that is going no where... even to educate us..to show limits when we use an open communicator alike forum and internet to trash people..to show us we must have some class and education, to protect and to respect our important members of the community, or tomorrow Nelson Pass will be smashed too..where is Nelson Pass guarantee that he will not be trashed in same way if we admit those things running in a open thread?... he may be afraigthned watching this..he may be the next one..someone dislike his amplifier and start to trash it this way.
The advantage Professor has, is that he is calm and cold ....or keep himself cold not beeing against rules..so...no one has reasons to punish him or close the annoying thread, i think, no one feel pleasant to see an important member of our communitty beeing smashed this way..with the nice amplifier beeing trashed..try to be into Hugh's place for a single moment.
Hugh cannot (he said nothing about..this is my OWN conclusion about) ask to close the thread..doing that he will admit his amplifier has problems and that he is trying to keep that hidden...he is a serious man and will never do that..he will continue to face that awfull sittuation from now to the ethernity.
Professor is clever.... i think he has high level of intelligence..much more than mine....my advantage is that i have several folks alike him in my country and i can detect the evil very easy.
If we wait for evidences... alike him to admit his intentions, to confess..will must to take a seat and wait in the most confortable way..as this will never happens..so...we must use our brain and think about, not to wait evidences that will never arrive.
Respectfully
Carlos Eugênio Mergulhão
Oh!... i am cleaning my soul saying all i have to say
i hope not bad educated.
Here is a complement to the last post.
Moderators know what to do..they know their job and really do not need my opinion..but i have to say we are slaves of our own rules..the rule is evidence...no evidence..only Professor words..have listened that sound in him home?... has an audio sample?..is this really true?..or a logical game....is this really happening..say..the amplifier is not fine in sound reproduction?...is the amplifier strange or the listener?....so.... we cannot judge based into the belief his is talking true...Belief is not scientifical evidence too...so..there's no evidence he is talking true...why to to wait evidences he is not talking true?... in the first case we do not need evidences....but to punish we need evidences....this way we gonna be tied... giving enormous advantage to the ones desire to bother.
If you dislike that, dear moderators..delete that post...i did my duty, to be decent and fair...i did what is correct to be done..i have opened my big mouth
I hope moderator will not say:
"drop the finger pointing Carlos"
Respectfully
Carlos Eugênio Mergulhão
i hope not bad educated.
Here is a complement to the last post.
Moderators know what to do..they know their job and really do not need my opinion..but i have to say we are slaves of our own rules..the rule is evidence...no evidence..only Professor words..have listened that sound in him home?... has an audio sample?..is this really true?..or a logical game....is this really happening..say..the amplifier is not fine in sound reproduction?...is the amplifier strange or the listener?....so.... we cannot judge based into the belief his is talking true...Belief is not scientifical evidence too...so..there's no evidence he is talking true...why to to wait evidences he is not talking true?... in the first case we do not need evidences....but to punish we need evidences....this way we gonna be tied... giving enormous advantage to the ones desire to bother.
If you dislike that, dear moderators..delete that post...i did my duty, to be decent and fair...i did what is correct to be done..i have opened my big mouth
I hope moderator will not say:
"drop the finger pointing Carlos"
Respectfully
Carlos Eugênio Mergulhão
Re: I would like to see this thread closed
Hahaha . . .
Don't worry . . .
Professor has already said Hello several times!!!
Don't worry . . .
Papa knows how to handle all problems without talking much . . .
Hahaha . . .
🙂
destroyer X said:
Hahaha . . .
Don't worry . . .
Professor has already said Hello several times!!!
Don't worry . . .
Papa knows how to handle all problems without talking much . . .
Hahaha . . .
🙂
Professor smith said:
No, i will not be more specific.
A mountain of good advice has already been given to you,
it seems useless to me to repeat previous advice.
Being more specific would mean spoonfeeding to me,
and i don't do spoonfeeding.
It's upto you to do something with the advice given to you.
Klaas
We can fake sittuations... you see... i am not too much crazy
But i can create something crazy too....
Oh!... even you lost the patience dear Klaas.... this seems to me almost all my good friends have already lost that.
Watch this dear Klaas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIs9kZgKNOU
Of course i can be wrong..but i can be also rigth!
Carlos
But i can create something crazy too....
Oh!... even you lost the patience dear Klaas.... this seems to me almost all my good friends have already lost that.
Watch this dear Klaas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIs9kZgKNOU
Of course i can be wrong..but i can be also rigth!
Carlos
OK, this thread seems to have run its course and has degenerated into sheer repetition and some personal stuff. I am closing it.- Status
- Not open for further replies.