Proac Tablette 2000 crossover?

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#22
slav said:
HI ms142 , I've been playing with Tablletes for long time , in tweeter I have tried following parts:
-Mundorf MCap+Mills resistors
-Russian K75-10 PIO caps + Mills
- Mundorf Supreme +Mills , now waiting for Duelund resistors
so far last most expensive config. was absolutely best , next Russian PIO.

In woofer I tried combination of 3u3in parallel wit 4u7 - didn't like at all ,
after that I bought some british made caps - bettter but still far from original Proac's sound , I also tried Mundorf MCap(8u) - still far from good , lately used AmpOhm PIO 8u - best result .
Today I soldered back AlCap from original x-over , I will listen for some time and try to decide which way to go .Hopefuly I find something about ESR, I observed exactly same thing after reeplacing woofer cap - less bass +exposed mid
Tweeter stays as is , I just try Duelund resistors.
Click to expand...

I also use 3u3+4u7 in the woofer... not very good as you said but I'm really reluctant to get fancy brands for a shunt cap.

The most dramatic mod I did though is the removal of the foam behind the woofer. I wonder if you've tried it? I know this exposes the crossover directly to the backwaves of the woofer, but for reasons beyond me, it really makes the midrange sound more natural (particularly in stock configuration). The only down side is that it makes the bass boomier, but with the reduced bass I get from the replacement of the Alcap, it compensates somewhat and the overall result is quite musical.
 
#23
Inductor said:
It would be interesting to simulate with the frd/zma for the two drivers, for the phase/anti-phase differences. Are they the SEAS EXCEL E003 (W17EX-001 WOOFER) and SS D2010 tweeter?
Here another Troels are also in phase (different woofer).
The ProAc Response 1S Clone
Here, inverted.
http://www.tubeamparts.com/docs/1sc.19111223.jpg
Click to expand...

Hi
Bass/Mid driver is Seas CA17 RC/TV- C , as far as I know they are bit different from its originals - on proac's request.
I am not sure what tweeter they use I will check next time I open speakers.
 
#24
ms142 said:
I also use 3u3+4u7 in the woofer... not very good as you said but I'm really reluctant to get fancy brands for a shunt cap.

The most dramatic mod I did though is the removal of the foam behind the woofer. I wonder if you've tried it? I know this exposes the crossover directly to the backwaves of the woofer, but for reasons beyond me, it really makes the midrange sound more natural (particularly in stock configuration). The only down side is that it makes the bass boomier, but with the reduced bass I get from the replacement of the Alcap, it compensates somewhat and the overall result is quite musical.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've done same thing an you're right somehow they sound better.
Woofer caps I used aren't very expensive (MCap Mundorrf ~£5 , AmpOhm ~£20 ) , but lately I soldered original bipolar .
I have done some reading about ESR and it's not that simple , ESR is strongly related to frequency (low freq-high value , high freq.-low value).
Yesterday I received AlCaps datasheet and calculated ESR using formula :
ESR=Xc*DF , where Xc=1/(2*pi*f*C)
DF- dissipation factor
formula is valid only for frequency DF values is given , in this case 1kHz
and ESR~2ohm.
I wonder if instead series R I should increase capacitance value ?
 
#25
Inductor said:
It would be interesting to simulate with the frd/zma for the two drivers, for the phase/anti-phase differences. Are they the SEAS EXCEL E003 (W17EX-001 WOOFER) and SS D2010 tweeter?
Click to expand...

The tweeter is 19tff1, but it's a slight variation of the one in the market right now. Much less expensive than D2010 but the datasheet freq plot looks ruler flat. Should be very good when crossed high. With some googling I found that it's used in the original Sonus Faber concerto/grand piano as well.

From the spec it looks like Hiquphon OWI would be a drop-in replacement... but it's >$200...
 
#26
slav said:
Yeah, I've done same thing an you're right somehow they sound better.
Woofer caps I used aren't very expensive (MCap Mundorrf ~£5 , AmpOhm ~£20 ) , but lately I soldered original bipolar .
I have done some reading about ESR and it's not that simple , ESR is strongly related to frequency (low freq-high value , high freq.-low value).
Yesterday I received AlCaps datasheet and calculated ESR using formula :
ESR=Xc*DF , where Xc=1/(2*pi*f*C)
DF- dissipation factor
formula is valid only for frequency DF values is given , in this case 1kHz
and ESR~2ohm.
I wonder if instead series R I should increase capacitance value ?
Click to expand...

Let us know if you have success with increased capacitance. I'm still very curious, however, about why the decrease in resistance at the shunt position increases the midrange. I suspect that it's a phase issue, i.e. somehow with less ESR, the woofer becomes more in phase with the tweeter a little below the crossover point. Perhaps the best thing to do is to use a small variable resistor and listen to the change in the crossover region?
 
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