I think a lot of why horns are disliked is the crossover, not the horn. It takes a lot more work and knowledge - and maybe luck! - to make a great sounding horn crossover.
Much easier with domes.
Much easier with domes.
I've been messing with prosound drivers and horns for a few years now... I think that some of the reasons that people like these drivers and enclosures has nothing to do with them being "prosound."
For instance, faraday rings reduce inductance, and drivers with low inductance tend to have low distortion. If you look through the B&C catalog, half their drivers use them. JBL has been using them for over two decades.
But in the hifi world, it's relatively uncommon. Seas uses them on their spendy drivers, and Dayton uses them on their reference drivers. But you don't see it on a regular basis.
So that's the first thing - pro sound drivers tend to use distortion reducing mechanisms like shorting riings.
Another common feature of prosound drivers is a much greater SD. For instance, in the hifi world a 6.5" woofer is a midbass; in the prosound world their are 12" drivers that are MIDRANGES.
And guess what? Distortion goes through the roof as excursion rises.
So the prosound woofers have another advantage here - they offer the same SPL as "hifi" drivers at a lower excursion.
The bottom line is that there isn't anything magical about prosound drivers. They're engineered for high SPL, and due to that, they include a lot of features which reduce distortion.
You can find these features in "hifi" drivers. In fact, you can even find them in computer speakers. I have a batch of Peerless computer speakers that have all the distortion killing features of a prosound driver, but at 1/10th the cost.
Of course you'd need TEN of them to equal the maximum output of a prosound midrange...
After building speakers for a few years, and measuring a LOT of them, I've basically given up on using drivers with conventional motors. The distortion is simply unacceptable.
No? Genelec 8260:
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K+H O500:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Best, Markus
Markus
You and I both know that your comment is misleading. THEORETICALLY no rigid piston can be CD. But a waveguide can HELP make it closer to CD over a wide angle (both those systems have small waveguides correct?). But a the narrower the angle and the wider the bandwidth that one wants CD the bigger the device has to be.
Try giving a compression drivers another listen. I have 2 systems using 10" midranges with compression drivers up top. One is vintage 80's 4 way the other a more modern DIY set-up. In both cases they can give my dome based systems as run for the money.
Rob🙂
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Dome tweeters in waveguides sound really good. And many tweeters have decent power handling with 29mm voice coils.
This one for example is excellent for use with a waveguide. SB Acoustics SB29RDCN-C000-4 Neo Magnet, Ring Dome from Madisound
This one for example is excellent for use with a waveguide. SB Acoustics SB29RDCN-C000-4 Neo Magnet, Ring Dome from Madisound
Did you measure those?
I've listened to a handful of prosound monitors with waveguide loaded domes. The Behringer Truth was brittle and unlistenable, but the Klein and Hummel 0500 was very good.
that 0500 looks like it would have been a perfect speaker if it was sealed.
i understand why ports are slapped onto cheap boom boxes where there simply isn't enough budget to put a second woofer instead but why ports are used on $10,000+ speakers is beyond me.
why mackie can afford to use a passive radiator and foam damping in a $600 speaker but genelec and hummel can't afford the same for 5 times the $$$.
i understand why ports are slapped onto cheap boom boxes where there simply isn't enough budget to put a second woofer instead but why ports are used on $10,000+ speakers is beyond me.
why mackie can afford to use a passive radiator and foam damping in a $600 speaker but genelec and hummel can't afford the same for 5 times the $$$.
Borat:
Ports work well when designed properly. Passive radiators, too, have limitations and issues aside the higher cost.
And where did you get the idea that Genelec and K+H don't use damping material inside their enclosures?
Ports work well when designed properly. Passive radiators, too, have limitations and issues aside the higher cost.
And where did you get the idea that Genelec and K+H don't use damping material inside their enclosures?
In my experience, this is mostly true with diffraction horns that tend to add impedance peaks and nulls. With smooth flare horns, particularly those with radiused mouths, the passband impedance tends to be much smoother making crossover design considerably easier - perhaps not as easy as for a good dome, but not too bad.
Obviously it's of no concern to them and the people that buy their monitors. If those things were that important then everybody would use Mackies. Have you ever had the chance to take a look inside the O500 or 8260?
Best, Markus
This, I know is a Late reply, but you shoul dust off you old "The Yes Album" (get the remastered version) and play starship trooper with your best performing low end set. It 's definitly not PipeOrgan but it is sure low freq.
My input!
Regards
Marc
In double-blind tests nobody was able to hear a difference when an 44.1kHz/16bit A/D/A was inserted. 192kHz might be desireable if the signal is altered significantly in the production process but I doubt that we'll ever need more than 96/24 as an end consumer format. Meridian proposed 58kHz and 14bit (with appropriate noise shaping) or 20bit (without noise shaping): http://www.meridian-audio.com/ara/coding2.pdf
Best, Markus
It might be that the equipment used was not as good as what is used by some hifi enthusiasts. This fellow has done some interesting work on this:
Information for prospective students
Note the discussion on apparatus in the first two papers listed here.
Exaclty, that is the problem.
I was talking about the mastering process all done at high resolution. We may see 32/210k (I think, not sure of the rates) in blue ray audio soon.
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