BINGO !!!
Same thing.
You know, 24 hours ago I was open to the idea, but after today I realise there is no way I can trust you. You have even shown the inability to be honest with yourself, so how are you going to be honest with me, I ask. You make money from audio and you can dress it up any way you like, only fooling yourself. I don't consider that dishonest - and if you consider what I do as dishonest when doing the same... that pretty much shuts the door.
Now you can go into all-out attack mode as much as you like - that seems to be your nature and it is not mine. You even misled others into thinking I already had something to send you without even consulting, a whirlwind storm that was uncontrollable. I am Danish you know, we are a bit more laid back than Gung-ho Americanism, we get there in the end, just the same.
Now you go for it, at least you will be your usual entertaining self, I am sure. Hoist me on my own petard.
I will just be waiting calmly for the DIY reports to come in. I will continue to attempt measurements with the help of others, always with full disclosure, any attempts to accuse me of otherwise have been proven false.
It's late here, off to bed and feeling very calm - don't you just hate that?
Cheerfully yours, Joe
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I'm confused by all this, as far as I'm concerned ALL DAC's emit spurious signals and direct filtering has been shown to reduce them sometimes dramatically. I would think the point would be to have a positive listening test result with no measurable electrical difference otherwise why bother.
Seems to me there is something easily measurable going on but no one has the curiosity or ability to get down into the circuits and figure it out.
I admit to not having the ability. Curiosity yes, hence my willing to help fund the effort for one versed in the art AND having access to suitable and repeatable test setups. And that offer holds even now Joe has decided he will not believe anything anyway
Where did I call you dishonest?
Where did I say that?
No matter, you can get rigorous testing with full disclosure done by someone who is independent of the industry, with no commercial axe to grind, and at no expense to yourself. This can only be to your benefit- if you have something, testing will show it, and you can tout it all you want. If the testing shows nothing significant, you can be applauded for putting your beliefs on the line, which is something that the hucksters and charlatans avoid at all costs, and your reputation as an honest practitioner will be enhanced.
Win-win.
I admit to not having the ability. Curiosity yes, hence my willing to help fund the effort for one versed in the art AND having access to suitable and repeatable test setups. And that offer holds even now Joe has decided he will not believe anything anyway
Some of you folks must have been around for Walt Jung's CD player upgrade of replacing 5534's with bi-FET's were they all imagining things or liars? These were day 1 CD players, ladder DAC's and all. This was almost 30yr. ago.
It's well known that an op-amp can not behave as an integrator at high frequency and I figure nothing more than yet another manifestation of this is happening (if anything). Op-amps are faster but the clocks are higher too as well as there is a lot more going on in the DAC chip. I should have said curiosity and ability as well as sometime to kill. There seems to be some vested interest in there not being a straight forward but maybe not obvious ordinary explanation. We had access to a couple of ESS reference designs when dealing with some cell phone customers, on our AP there certainly were no in-band spuriae at more than -110dB re full scale.
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Joe. You need to quit playing the victim here. Please stop acting so mortally offended that people have doubts about what you've proposed. Let's get with the testing. This thread is mostly blah, blah, blah - but at least there are now good offers on the table to do real testing. You should welcome that.
Scott. I think that some of us really do want to look at this closely because there are some reasons behind what could be happening, as you know probably better than anyone.
Ken. If SY has a bias, it's against B.S. Other than that you would be hard pressed to find someone better suited to carry out the tests. I can tell you that from direct experience.
Scott. I think that some of us really do want to look at this closely because there are some reasons behind what could be happening, as you know probably better than anyone.
Ken. If SY has a bias, it's against B.S. Other than that you would be hard pressed to find someone better suited to carry out the tests. I can tell you that from direct experience.
Would any of the various ES9023 (+ USB receiver) off of ebay work? My assumption is "no", given the integrated I-V conversion opamp, but given it's a chip that'd probably benefit from a higher-current buffer, could this filter be placed *there*?
'Cuz those suckers are cheap (less than the shipping from Aus) and a very very simple dead bug on a dip8 opamp might do the trick.
'Cuz those suckers are cheap (less than the shipping from Aus) and a very very simple dead bug on a dip8 opamp might do the trick.
Yes, but the explanations flying around compared to a solution such as the third figure in post #371 show a very basic lack of understanding of circuit theory. An R/C filter at the output of voltage out DAC and a cap at the input of an I to V converter are very different things.
Would someone neutral PLEASE download an LM4562 macro model and simulate the "solution" in post #371 (pictures 1 and 3) in LTSPICE.
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I'll try to do so over the next couple nights (good practice)--what sorts of input are you thinking? I would think some relatively narrow current pulses would be the best recourse (versus, say, an AC sweep).
I was more concerned with the noise peaking as shown almost 500nV/rt-Hz at 20k. The frequency response is another matter, as I said you don't need to add a resistor to get a two pole response. Try 10nF directly across the output of the DAC and change the feedback capacitance to 150pf and compare it to the application unmodified and look at the out of band rejection.
The proposed circuit totally compromises the SNR of the ESS DAC.
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Sadly 30 years ago I didn't have a CD player. People were dumping vinyl cheap and I did well out of that on the music front. Are you suggesting POOGE 2015?
Another point, I'm led to believe there is some kind of magic about -1db at 20kHz. Does that mean simply substituting 1R8 for the 3R3 resistors destroys the secret mojo? This measurement is unlikely to show anything except the small shift in 3dB frequency.
The above picture (#456) shows the no I to V approach, I directly into small R with high gain low noise amplifier. Mixing all these different approaches together is bound to cause confusion.
That's exactly why I'm trying to get Joe involved, so that whatever is tested is exactly representative of his claims. The posts here seem to be all over the map.
Pano, this isn't a question of SY's integrity. It's a question of SY's bias with respct to this particular topic. We are all human, and are all potentially subject to bias. Such is most certainly a point SY has been suggesting about Joe. I think that any fair reading of SY's comments indicates that he has an established stake in the outcome of any listening test. He is not some neutral observer on this, he is a prime critic.
On a larger question, why is there a expectation of a scientific listening test for this cheap, simple and safe experiment? I do not understand why. If someone can point me to the many other experiments, or projects or modifications on this site where that was and is likewise expected it would satisfy this question.
Joe you make this too personal and defensive. I'm ONLY interested in a comprehensive technical analysis of the situation. I put a cap here and it improved the sound you figure it out has NO interest to me.
Hi Ken,
I know SY personally as well. He has no experimental bias and would report any findings completely and honestly. The BS does get him going as it does me. I see no reason to pile on though.
Joe, the only way you might be okay with the results is if you do ship a pair of DACs to Stuart. That way all questions of the mod being done properly are answered, and you could protect yourself from some uncertainty. I have a strong feeling that you would not accept negative or ambiguous results unless you can ship certified working DACs out, then be able to re-examine them on their return. That's placing a lot of trust in you too.
Any argument that Stuart is not impartial is not based in fact at all. Anyone who knows him can attest to his honesty. I'll back his integrity completely, and I won't have to worry about my own reputation getting tattered. I'm sure there is a line of folks willing to stake their reputations on Stuart's honesty.
If you can scrape together a pair of DACs and set them up Joe, you would be assured of an honest report on them. If you have done even one of those mods recently that I see priced, money shouldn't be a problem here.
-Chris
I know SY personally as well. He has no experimental bias and would report any findings completely and honestly. The BS does get him going as it does me. I see no reason to pile on though.
Joe, the only way you might be okay with the results is if you do ship a pair of DACs to Stuart. That way all questions of the mod being done properly are answered, and you could protect yourself from some uncertainty. I have a strong feeling that you would not accept negative or ambiguous results unless you can ship certified working DACs out, then be able to re-examine them on their return. That's placing a lot of trust in you too.
Any argument that Stuart is not impartial is not based in fact at all. Anyone who knows him can attest to his honesty. I'll back his integrity completely, and I won't have to worry about my own reputation getting tattered. I'm sure there is a line of folks willing to stake their reputations on Stuart's honesty.
If you can scrape together a pair of DACs and set them up Joe, you would be assured of an honest report on them. If you have done even one of those mods recently that I see priced, money shouldn't be a problem here.
-Chris
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