millwood said:
Well, yes. Though it doesn't necessarily prove that the claims can never be substantiated.
And as much as some like to put words in my mouth, I've never stated that the claims can't possibly be substantiated. Only that to date, they haven't been. And even though they haven't been, I haven't come to any firm conclusions.
If Michael Percy ever gets my order shipped (see cable directionality thread), we'll start to work on trying to substantiate at least one claim.
And since Eric says he'll be participating in that test (as well as Frank), your comment below isn't entirely accurate.
Unfortunately, all of them, without one single exception, decided to waste their precious time and exceptionally gifted hearing capabilities on raising their middle fingers and berating those "morons" demanding a proof.
se
Steve Eddy said:
I never implied that. A lot of claims have been substantiated, including for example Newton's laws and relativity theories. I hope some of the claims made here can be substantiated or else proven wrong.
Steve Eddy said:
I was not aware of that test so I guess we just have to wait to see (hear?) what is going to happen.
Eva said:
That seems reasonable to agree with. However, doesn't that
statement presuppose that you actually do believe capacitors
are audible? 🙂
Hi,
As are PCs you mean? And a ton of other things for that matter.
Of course someone will always say it's all in or minds.
What's on your wishlist?
Starting to sound like a broken record...
It seems obvious to me that the one that's wasting his time here is you?
Get over it, please...............
Cheers,😉
As are PCs you mean? And a ton of other things for that matter.
Of course someone will always say it's all in or minds.
What's on your wishlist?
Starting to sound like a broken record...
It seems obvious to me that the one that's wasting his time here is you?
Get over it, please...............
Cheers,😉
fdegrove said:
Frank,
I did not mean to express any opinion on whether caps are
audible or not. I did however get the impression that Eva
does not quite believe such things are audible (I may be
wrong there, of course), which made her comment somewhat
interesting.
And it's because of people like you Peter, who cannot deal in science, that nonsensical threads of this nature continue for 35 pages...
Try whacking one of your 4700uF GC PSU caps at the amp input. I think you'll notice a difference way beyond whatever you're hearing from your PSU caps...
Yeah, a record YOU broke, Frankie...
Guilt-ridden Frank? You don't like being reminded of your less-civilized moments, do you?
The comment about capacitors is because lower capacitor count allways means less chances of having hours of nonsense discussions with subjetivists triying to fool you into thinking that everything they feel when they are into 'high-end auditive trance' is real
please don't mind me....
it could just be me, but i noticed, people who do not resort to name calling are the ones that sound very convincing....
it could just be me, but i noticed, people who do not resort to name calling are the ones that sound very convincing....
millwood[/i] [B]For example[/b]. We can certainly hear sound at 100db (in a rocket concert for example). However said:
Frank, your reading comprehension continues to disappoint me. For your benefit, I highlighted my original post so you, hopefully, can read it correctly. The emphasise is on "for example".
We know that you can hear power cords like no other so your reading comprehension needs to match that as well.
maybe because they don't have to resort to their middle fingers in a discussion? or they have facts / science rather than "mental pictures"? or?
There are a few of us here who are willing to put some effort into one experiment.Steve Eddy said:
Thanks Steve for providing the wire when he gets it, and Frank and I will take a close listen and attempt to reliably detect directional bias in these test cables.
I have cables that are rudely directional so I know what to listen for, and Frank does too.
I also know that the degree of directional bias is variable according to cable model, and the degree of bias in Steves cables is at this stage an unknown, but Frank and I should be able to detect it reliably.
Steve, you state "...., I haven't come to any firm conclusions", so how about you pull back a whole lot from a whole lot of subjects until we have results of an experiment that YOU are personally involved in - so far we hear just about every objection under the sun from you about things that you have no direct experience of.
Please understand that there are guys here who have sensible subjective findings but without objective proofs, but this ought not automatically discredit sensible subjective findings as seems to be your obsession.
Peter said recently that he sent capacitors to another experimenter and this experimenter returned similar/same objective findings as Peter but without prior knowledge of Peter's subjective findings.
IOW, different people are saying the same things (same subjective findings) and without collaboration or prior knowledge.
Any sensible listener would take note of these kinds of comments.
There are multiple members here who are saying that they have heard subjective differences according to PC's, and surely they cannot all be deluding themselves.
There are electrical (LCR), form factor and dielectric differences between cables that can easily change the behaviour of the load device and are fully theory explainable.
I do not understand why you have such a problem with this.
Eric.
DrG said:
Actually I AM using same caps for coupling the input of my GC and in PS filtering. Those are BG 4.7/50 N type for coupling and 1000/50 N type for PS. I wouldn't mind using 1000 for coupling as well, but at $80 a pc, they are way too expensive for that purpose.
mrfeedback said:
I don't recall when that (sensible) was established ex ante. If it was, I would like to know.
mrfeedback said:
I thought the purpose of that experiment is to establish the "easily" part of the conclusion. Aren't assuming the results here?
Why don't we all set back and see how the experiment is run and who come out on top?
Hi,
No, the purpose of the experiment is to establish audibility.
Guess you must have misread that somehow...
Cheers,😉
No, the purpose of the experiment is to establish audibility.
Guess you must have misread that somehow...
Cheers,😉
mrfeedback said:
When people assert their subjective perceptions as objective fact while lacking any objective proof to substantiate it, I don't see that it requires any direct experience to point out that such a thing is misleading.
I don't discredt subjective findings. I rarely comment at all on peoples' subjective findings. I only have a problem when people try and pass off their subjective experiences as objective fact without any objective substantiation.
That's not discrediting anyone's subjective findings. It's simply pointing out that their objective claims lack any objective proof. Their subjective findings might well at some point be able to be substantiated objectively. As I've said, I've no firm conclusions one way or the other.
But when someone asserts their subjective findings as objective fact without any objective proof, they are being intellectually dishonest and misleading.
If one hasn't any objective proof of their subjective findings, then don't assert them as such and I won't have a thing to say.
But with prior exposure over time to numerous other comments regarding the capacitors in question.
And any sensible thinker would take note of all the other variables involved here and realize that it was hardly an experience which took place within a vacuum.
"Deluding" isn't a term I would use.
But why couldn't they be? They're all humans. Therefore they're all subject to the same human weaknesses as everyone else.
And what of all those who DON'T perceive any differences according to PCs? To use your line of reasoning, surely they can't all be deaf can they? Surely they can't all have crappy systems can they?
Why do you seem to look only at that which supports your theories but ignore that which does not? A sensible thinker takes all evidence into consideration. Not just that which supports their preconceived notions and beliefs.
Sure. But just because you can come up with some theoretically explainable difference DOESN'T prove that the differences are necessarily actually audible. At best all it does is give you a starting point for further investigation.
And I do not understand why you DON'T have a problem with the intellectual dishonesty of asserting subjective perceptions as objective fact when there is no objective evidence to support it.
I would like to think that any rational thinking person would have a problem with this.
se
fdegrove said:
Actually it was just a convenient excuse for me to finally get around to ordering up some of that Vampire magnet wire I'd been meaning to try for a year or so now. 😀
se
Hi,
A very good way of finding out what the PSU caps sound like indeed...
The chosen value may burn out a set of woofercoils but who cares??
After all is said and done an amplifier is nothing more than a modualted PS with some gain, isn't it?
Should I? Given present company I don't think so.
Cheers,😉
A very good way of finding out what the PSU caps sound like indeed...
The chosen value may burn out a set of woofercoils but who cares??
After all is said and done an amplifier is nothing more than a modualted PS with some gain, isn't it?
Should I? Given present company I don't think so.
Cheers,😉
Hi,
You clown....
Any reason to choose Vampies as opposed to run-of the mill enamelled copperwire?
Cheers,😉
You clown....
Any reason to choose Vampies as opposed to run-of the mill enamelled copperwire?
Cheers,😉
fdegrove said:You clown....
Clown? Naaaah. Just plain lazy. 🙂
Because I seem you recall your saying something to the effect that the high purity, minimal crystal wires were the most revealing of directionality.
se
Hi,
Ah...Yes, I did say that.
Now if our Vampies offer that then that's fine by me...I must have missed that on their website.
You all know I can't read, so what else is new, he?
At this point in time and not knowing whenever you'll receive the Bats, I'd strongly advise to postpone shipments 'till half January.
If you don't it's risky and I'll just have a dream of an excuse to keep the wire just having to blame postal services...
Just kidding,😀
Ah...Yes, I did say that.
Now if our Vampies offer that then that's fine by me...I must have missed that on their website.
You all know I can't read, so what else is new, he?
At this point in time and not knowing whenever you'll receive the Bats, I'd strongly advise to postpone shipments 'till half January.
If you don't it's risky and I'll just have a dream of an excuse to keep the wire just having to blame postal services...
Just kidding,😀
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