Hi,
Please forgive me if this is dumb but I am ignorant about such things and just want the furniture to shake more when watching The Terminator...
My present home audio is an RCA 650 watt w/ a 100w subwoofer.
(Sam's special)
I am very happy with this affordable system but the subwoofer leaves me wanting, as it distorts even at 50% of the volume.
I never have to turn the volume up very high to blow us away on the other 5 speakers.
So here is what I want to do:
I want to build a subwoofer to replace my present one.
I was considering purchasing a honking big speaker like this one:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/prod...ype=19&dept=3944&path=0:3944:3947:96481:38981
and building a nifty cabinet for it, (which I can do).
So here is my question:
I usually don't use anywhere near the power of the RCA amp.
The five speaker are set on like 6 db and the sub is on 9 db.
(I'm not sure if I am even using this correctly...)
I believe the RCA amp is capable of pushing much more power than I am using.
Is it possible to build this sub without an amp (just box and speaker) and power it thru the RCA amp or will this overload the amp and burn it up, etc. ???
My thinking is to adjust the power output to the 5 speakers at like 4db and the sub at like 9db and crank up the volume to about 70% for the same volume and lots more bass.
I'm afraid building an amp into the speaker is too much for my brain and my wife's budgeting of my "frivolous endeavors".
After you finish laughing, Please tell me ~ Will this work?
Thanks in advance,
Rob
Please forgive me if this is dumb but I am ignorant about such things and just want the furniture to shake more when watching The Terminator...
My present home audio is an RCA 650 watt w/ a 100w subwoofer.
(Sam's special)
I am very happy with this affordable system but the subwoofer leaves me wanting, as it distorts even at 50% of the volume.
I never have to turn the volume up very high to blow us away on the other 5 speakers.
So here is what I want to do:
I want to build a subwoofer to replace my present one.
I was considering purchasing a honking big speaker like this one:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/prod...ype=19&dept=3944&path=0:3944:3947:96481:38981
and building a nifty cabinet for it, (which I can do).
So here is my question:
I usually don't use anywhere near the power of the RCA amp.
The five speaker are set on like 6 db and the sub is on 9 db.
(I'm not sure if I am even using this correctly...)
I believe the RCA amp is capable of pushing much more power than I am using.
Is it possible to build this sub without an amp (just box and speaker) and power it thru the RCA amp or will this overload the amp and burn it up, etc. ???
My thinking is to adjust the power output to the 5 speakers at like 4db and the sub at like 9db and crank up the volume to about 70% for the same volume and lots more bass.
I'm afraid building an amp into the speaker is too much for my brain and my wife's budgeting of my "frivolous endeavors".
After you finish laughing, Please tell me ~ Will this work?
Thanks in advance,
Rob
Most A/V amplifiers do not have a power amplifier for the subwoofer.
Its possible to route the sub channel to front left and right,
and use a dual coil subwoofer driver with a passive crossover,
but there's a lot you'd have to get right before it sounded any
good, or in other words its very likely to all go hideously wrong.
So I severely do not reccomend this route.
Just get a bigger and more powerful subwoofer and save yourself
the grief.
🙂 / sreten.
Its possible to route the sub channel to front left and right,
and use a dual coil subwoofer driver with a passive crossover,
but there's a lot you'd have to get right before it sounded any
good, or in other words its very likely to all go hideously wrong.
So I severely do not reccomend this route.
Just get a bigger and more powerful subwoofer and save yourself
the grief.
🙂 / sreten.
Subs are easy to get wrong. I don't think a cheap-o driver is a good way to start. I'd look for a mature project that is within your price range. I think some Eminence-based designs have been discussed recently that are within your budget and likely better quality than the Wal-mart special.
The easiest path to boomy, disappointing bass is to start with a cheap woofer and then compound the problem with a less-than-ideal box.
The easiest path to boomy, disappointing bass is to start with a cheap woofer and then compound the problem with a less-than-ideal box.
RobAche said:
I don't think there is anything wrong with your idea at all. Your sub is already powered, already crossed over. Assuming that distortion is from subwoofer itself and not the amp, there is no reason you cannot do a sub speaker/box upgrade and leave the rest of the system alone.
A) Now, you mentioned that your subwoofer is 100 watts. Is there an amp on your subwoofer, or is it powered by an separate channel on your AV receiver?
B) The type of sub you have-can you see the speaker cone? Or is it one of those subs where the speaker is inside the box, and only a large port is visible to the eye?
C) Just for the heck of it, can you tell me the model number of your system? Maybe there is some info on it on the internet, although we might be able to get by without it-there is increasing standardization on the AV setups.
The Real Skinny
Thanks to all for giving my sad setup your attention.
Someday, when I can afford it, I will upgrade.
However, it was all I could do after dropping 3 grand on the big screen TV - to talk SOUND with the wifer.
NOW: My sub is kind of obscured by a sofa, which I believe, is absorbing some of the bass.
My plan for this weekend is to build a very solid box to sit the current sub IN - to project the sound out into the room ---------> .
I was going to create a shelf-like gap about 6'' high for the sub to sit on to attempt maximizing the acoustics. So picture an 18'' box - open on one side - with a shelf built in - and the sub laying on it's side - shooting glorious bass out into the room.
I am thinking this will help a lot without having to screw around with the system.
Please bear with me, I am a graphic artist from Oklahoma...
Here is my actual system specs...
630 watts of total power with Dolby Digital surround decoding
100 watts for left, center, right, left surround and right surround speakers
130W powered subwoofer
Enclosed wood 5-speaker package with two shielded main speakers, shielded center channel and two surround speakers
2-way main and rear speakers
DBaS (Dynamic Bass amplification System)
Six channel external direct inputs for upgradability
Digital AM/FM stereo tuner with 30 presets
EZ use feature set: Quick Connect guide, color-coded transparent wiring, color-coded speaker terminals, speaker hanging capability
Input IQ
Front A/V jacks for easy connection
Three S-video connections for quality image
46-button universal remote
and believe it or not, this system sounds pretty darn good (to me).
I was wondering if I was to BUY a powered sub (the kind that plugs in to voltage) - if that would enable me to adjust the bass independantly from the system?
I want cheap bass darn it!
Any Ideas????
I really appreciate your input!
Thanks to all for giving my sad setup your attention.
Someday, when I can afford it, I will upgrade.
However, it was all I could do after dropping 3 grand on the big screen TV - to talk SOUND with the wifer.
NOW: My sub is kind of obscured by a sofa, which I believe, is absorbing some of the bass.
My plan for this weekend is to build a very solid box to sit the current sub IN - to project the sound out into the room ---------> .
I was going to create a shelf-like gap about 6'' high for the sub to sit on to attempt maximizing the acoustics. So picture an 18'' box - open on one side - with a shelf built in - and the sub laying on it's side - shooting glorious bass out into the room.
I am thinking this will help a lot without having to screw around with the system.
Please bear with me, I am a graphic artist from Oklahoma...
Here is my actual system specs...
630 watts of total power with Dolby Digital surround decoding
100 watts for left, center, right, left surround and right surround speakers
130W powered subwoofer
Enclosed wood 5-speaker package with two shielded main speakers, shielded center channel and two surround speakers
2-way main and rear speakers
DBaS (Dynamic Bass amplification System)
Six channel external direct inputs for upgradability
Digital AM/FM stereo tuner with 30 presets
EZ use feature set: Quick Connect guide, color-coded transparent wiring, color-coded speaker terminals, speaker hanging capability
Input IQ
Front A/V jacks for easy connection
Three S-video connections for quality image
46-button universal remote
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
and believe it or not, this system sounds pretty darn good (to me).
I was wondering if I was to BUY a powered sub (the kind that plugs in to voltage) - if that would enable me to adjust the bass independantly from the system?
I want cheap bass darn it!
Any Ideas????
I really appreciate your input!
Just to clarify :
Is the sub self powered ?
That is has its own power supply and amplifier built in ?
Or is it driven from the 'system' ?
You can adjust the volume of your sub relative to your other
speakers ?
Does your sub look relatively easy to dissasemble ?
I don't think your 'bass shooting' box will work - at all - sorry.
I'm sure we can come up with some suggestions.
🙂 /sreten.
Is the sub self powered ?
That is has its own power supply and amplifier built in ?
Or is it driven from the 'system' ?
You can adjust the volume of your sub relative to your other
speakers ?
Does your sub look relatively easy to dissasemble ?
I don't think your 'bass shooting' box will work - at all - sorry.
I'm sure we can come up with some suggestions.
🙂 /sreten.
Thanks for the reply!
The little sub that couldn't has no power supply or amp that I can tell.
There are no adjustment knobs of any kind on it.
However, it DOES have a red light that flickers when it is maxing out.
It is sealed tighter than a drum - no screws.
I inspected the "hole" with my finger and felt no cone ~ it was a soft, spongy material.
I was really hoping my projection idea would work.
I tried it with a cardboard box and it seemed to help get the sound up into the room.
I could save my pennies and buy a sub y'all would recommend that would work with my present system.
But they is danged expensive and I'm not to technically proficient, if you know what I mean.
I'm all ears!
The little sub that couldn't has no power supply or amp that I can tell.
There are no adjustment knobs of any kind on it.
However, it DOES have a red light that flickers when it is maxing out.
It is sealed tighter than a drum - no screws.
I inspected the "hole" with my finger and felt no cone ~ it was a soft, spongy material.
I was really hoping my projection idea would work.
I tried it with a cardboard box and it seemed to help get the sound up into the room.
I could save my pennies and buy a sub y'all would recommend that would work with my present system.
But they is danged expensive and I'm not to technically proficient, if you know what I mean.
I'm all ears!
Thanks for the specs, they helped, but do you have the model number?
1) Let me get this 100 percent clear-there is no speaker mounted on the outside of the box. There is just a hole in the solid box. Is this correct?
2) No amp of any kind-so there is no wire going from the sub to the wall outlet?
3) Quick measurement-what are the outside dimensions of your sub?
4) A box with an outer box around it to project sound into the room MIGHT work. It will probably emphasize some notes at the expense of others-which we are trying to avoid-but it might get around the "sofa absorption" situation. You said you only wanted more punch for The Governor-I mean The Terminator-right?
5) I do believe that excellent improvement in your bass can be achieved with a seprate speaker/box combo that need not be over $100 to build. First, I need to know more about how your present speaker is powered. For this, I would need to know the model number. Also, how long ago did you buy this?
6) I believe whatever powering system RCA has for this subwoofer will be transferable to any normal subwoofer speakers on the market. The people on this forum, including myself, can provide you with box dimensions to make a superior speaker/box combo that will yield far deeper, louder bass.
7) Beware thay you might have to take apart your present day subwoofer if there is an amp insided that you want to power your new speaker/box combo. Perhaps your sub is powered by the AV receiver, in which case you would not have to take the old sub apart. We will determine which is which before we tell you to buy anything start the project.
8) If you want to buy a new sub amp to hook up to the AV receiver, they go for $100-$200. However, since your present sub is already getting 100 watts of power already, I would just use the amp in your old speaker to save money. 🙂
PS: If your subwoofer has a model number separate from the model number of the whole unit, please give me that number too.
the model number of the system and the model number of the subwoofer itself will be very helpful.
1) Let me get this 100 percent clear-there is no speaker mounted on the outside of the box. There is just a hole in the solid box. Is this correct?
2) No amp of any kind-so there is no wire going from the sub to the wall outlet?
3) Quick measurement-what are the outside dimensions of your sub?
4) A box with an outer box around it to project sound into the room MIGHT work. It will probably emphasize some notes at the expense of others-which we are trying to avoid-but it might get around the "sofa absorption" situation. You said you only wanted more punch for The Governor-I mean The Terminator-right?
5) I do believe that excellent improvement in your bass can be achieved with a seprate speaker/box combo that need not be over $100 to build. First, I need to know more about how your present speaker is powered. For this, I would need to know the model number. Also, how long ago did you buy this?
6) I believe whatever powering system RCA has for this subwoofer will be transferable to any normal subwoofer speakers on the market. The people on this forum, including myself, can provide you with box dimensions to make a superior speaker/box combo that will yield far deeper, louder bass.
7) Beware thay you might have to take apart your present day subwoofer if there is an amp insided that you want to power your new speaker/box combo. Perhaps your sub is powered by the AV receiver, in which case you would not have to take the old sub apart. We will determine which is which before we tell you to buy anything start the project.
8) If you want to buy a new sub amp to hook up to the AV receiver, they go for $100-$200. However, since your present sub is already getting 100 watts of power already, I would just use the amp in your old speaker to save money. 🙂
PS: If your subwoofer has a model number separate from the model number of the whole unit, please give me that number too.
the model number of the system and the model number of the subwoofer itself will be very helpful.
Thanks for the specs, they helped, but do you have the model number?
RCA RT-2580
1) Let me get this 100 percent clear-there is no speaker mounted on the outside of the box. There is just a hole in the solid box. Is this correct?
yes, just a hole.
2) No amp of any kind-so there is no wire going from the sub to the wall outlet?
no amp or power cord.
3) Quick measurement-what are the outside dimensions of your sub?
I would say they are 8'' x 8'' x 12'' ~ I will check tonight.
4) A box with an outer box around it to project sound into the room MIGHT work. It will probably emphasize some notes at the expense of others-which we are trying to avoid-but it might get around the "sofa absorption" situation. You said you only wanted more punch for The Governor-I mean The Terminator-right?
punch me hard but let me hear the basoons in Lord of the Rings too please.
5) I do believe that excellent improvement in your bass can be achieved with a seprate speaker/box combo that need not be over $100 to build. First, I need to know more about how your present speaker is powered. For this, I would need to know the model number. Also, how long ago did you buy this?
RCA RT-2580 purchased last Christmas
6) I believe whatever powering system RCA has for this subwoofer will be transferable to any normal subwoofer speakers on the market. The people on this forum, including myself, can provide you with box dimensions to make a superior speaker/box combo that will yield far deeper, louder bass.
COOL! THANKS!
7) Beware thay you might have to take apart your present day subwoofer if there is an amp insided that you want to power your new speaker/box combo. Perhaps your sub is powered by the AV receiver, in which case you would not have to take the old sub apart. We will determine which is which before we tell you to buy anything start the project.
The specs I posted read: "130W powered subwoofer" ~ I assume that means it's powered by the AV receiver. I do remember the sub had a different type of speaker wire than the other 5 - if that helps. The instructions were adamant about not confusing them.
8) If you want to buy a new sub amp to hook up to the AV receiver, they go for $100-$200. However, since your present sub is already getting 100 watts of power already, I would just use the amp in your old speaker to save money.
works for me!
PS: If your subwoofer has a model number separate from the model number of the whole unit, please give me that number too.
the model number of the system and the model number of the subwoofer itself will be very helpful.
I will check tonight.
Thanks so much for the help.
RCA RT-2580
1) Let me get this 100 percent clear-there is no speaker mounted on the outside of the box. There is just a hole in the solid box. Is this correct?
yes, just a hole.
2) No amp of any kind-so there is no wire going from the sub to the wall outlet?
no amp or power cord.
3) Quick measurement-what are the outside dimensions of your sub?
I would say they are 8'' x 8'' x 12'' ~ I will check tonight.
4) A box with an outer box around it to project sound into the room MIGHT work. It will probably emphasize some notes at the expense of others-which we are trying to avoid-but it might get around the "sofa absorption" situation. You said you only wanted more punch for The Governor-I mean The Terminator-right?
punch me hard but let me hear the basoons in Lord of the Rings too please.
5) I do believe that excellent improvement in your bass can be achieved with a seprate speaker/box combo that need not be over $100 to build. First, I need to know more about how your present speaker is powered. For this, I would need to know the model number. Also, how long ago did you buy this?
RCA RT-2580 purchased last Christmas
6) I believe whatever powering system RCA has for this subwoofer will be transferable to any normal subwoofer speakers on the market. The people on this forum, including myself, can provide you with box dimensions to make a superior speaker/box combo that will yield far deeper, louder bass.
COOL! THANKS!
7) Beware thay you might have to take apart your present day subwoofer if there is an amp insided that you want to power your new speaker/box combo. Perhaps your sub is powered by the AV receiver, in which case you would not have to take the old sub apart. We will determine which is which before we tell you to buy anything start the project.
The specs I posted read: "130W powered subwoofer" ~ I assume that means it's powered by the AV receiver. I do remember the sub had a different type of speaker wire than the other 5 - if that helps. The instructions were adamant about not confusing them.
8) If you want to buy a new sub amp to hook up to the AV receiver, they go for $100-$200. However, since your present sub is already getting 100 watts of power already, I would just use the amp in your old speaker to save money.
works for me!
PS: If your subwoofer has a model number separate from the model number of the whole unit, please give me that number too.
the model number of the system and the model number of the subwoofer itself will be very helpful.
I will check tonight.
Thanks so much for the help.
I agree with everything KC has said.
But in my devious experience nearly everything put together
comes apart, unless it just hot glued together.
The subwoofer seems to be a passive bandpass design 4th order.
That is low bass is determined by a sealed part and upper bass
and midrange roll off determined by the ported section. This is
consistent with the foam felt through the port which is needed to
damp the resonances of this section.
The questions are : does the subwooofer have a reasonably flat
alignment - that is no pre-eq is applied by the system ; and is
the bandpass only used for power handling reasons - that is the
feed from the system rolls off to match the other speakers and
the inherent midrange roll-off of the sub is an additional nicety.
If the above is true once the impedance of the driver is
established a simple passive sealed or reflex subwoofer of
higher efficiency (shouldn't be difficult) to address one of the
initial issues raised - relative volume setting - will do the job.
Cheapest solution would be to attack the the subbox with a
jigsaw and convert it to a simple sealed box with a decent driver.
The driver partition acting a useful brace.
You'd need a driver with a similarly optimistic power rating 😉
I'm sure I could get that port moulding off - suspect its a push fit !
🙂 /sreten.
But in my devious experience nearly everything put together
comes apart, unless it just hot glued together.
The subwoofer seems to be a passive bandpass design 4th order.
That is low bass is determined by a sealed part and upper bass
and midrange roll off determined by the ported section. This is
consistent with the foam felt through the port which is needed to
damp the resonances of this section.
The questions are : does the subwooofer have a reasonably flat
alignment - that is no pre-eq is applied by the system ; and is
the bandpass only used for power handling reasons - that is the
feed from the system rolls off to match the other speakers and
the inherent midrange roll-off of the sub is an additional nicety.
If the above is true once the impedance of the driver is
established a simple passive sealed or reflex subwoofer of
higher efficiency (shouldn't be difficult) to address one of the
initial issues raised - relative volume setting - will do the job.
Cheapest solution would be to attack the the subbox with a
jigsaw and convert it to a simple sealed box with a decent driver.
The driver partition acting a useful brace.
You'd need a driver with a similarly optimistic power rating 😉
I'm sure I could get that port moulding off - suspect its a push fit !
🙂 /sreten.
Well, Mr. S.,
A jigsaw I have.
An understanding of most of what you said eludes my comprehension.
I DO know the RCA amp offers no "tweaking" for the speakers other than to adjust the decibel level.
So, apart from installing an amp into the sub, how would replacing the speaker help?
I'm thinking I'm gonna need a new sub with an amp that powers from a wall outlet to generate some noise without drawing too much power from the tuner(?) and thus burning it up?
Or maybe I am out of my league here and should just be happy with what I've got.
That, or just perpetually unsatisfied...
A jigsaw I have.
An understanding of most of what you said eludes my comprehension.
I DO know the RCA amp offers no "tweaking" for the speakers other than to adjust the decibel level.
So, apart from installing an amp into the sub, how would replacing the speaker help?
I'm thinking I'm gonna need a new sub with an amp that powers from a wall outlet to generate some noise without drawing too much power from the tuner(?) and thus burning it up?
Or maybe I am out of my league here and should just be happy with what I've got.
That, or just perpetually unsatisfied...
...Not that I don't appreciate your help.
I'm just dumb about these things and feel like I'm trying to nail jello to the wall.
I'm just dumb about these things and feel like I'm trying to nail jello to the wall.
sorry Rob - TBH it was more for KC's benefit than yours.
I believe KC will suggest you build a subwoofer box with a new
bass unit to be powered by your tuner/ system to replace your
current subwoofer box.
I was pointing out (to KC) some of the very reasonable but
assumptions none the less that you'd need to make to do so.
And finally that there is a possibility of reusing your subwoofer
box. The way it works would change - the internal unit would
be removed and a new driver installed in the front of the box,
the new bass unit would be optimised for this application.
By changing the way it works and having a much higher
performance bass unit optimised for the new way it works
you'd have a very good compact subwoofer.
But as always with bass - bigger is always better so if you
don't like the idea of a better subwoofer the size of your
current sub woofer then by all means build a bigger box.
But of course this new box will cost time and money.
There will be no problem about drawing too much power from
your tuner/system, KC has effectively said the same thing.
🙂 /sreten.
I believe KC will suggest you build a subwoofer box with a new
bass unit to be powered by your tuner/ system to replace your
current subwoofer box.
I was pointing out (to KC) some of the very reasonable but
assumptions none the less that you'd need to make to do so.
And finally that there is a possibility of reusing your subwoofer
box. The way it works would change - the internal unit would
be removed and a new driver installed in the front of the box,
the new bass unit would be optimised for this application.
By changing the way it works and having a much higher
performance bass unit optimised for the new way it works
you'd have a very good compact subwoofer.
But as always with bass - bigger is always better so if you
don't like the idea of a better subwoofer the size of your
current sub woofer then by all means build a bigger box.
But of course this new box will cost time and money.
There will be no problem about drawing too much power from
your tuner/system, KC has effectively said the same thing.
🙂 /sreten.
Thanks, Sretan, I understand what you are saying here.
Rob:
I checked out the instruction book of the slightly different model, the RT 2500, which i think might be similar.
You said the cable to the subwoofer was somewhat different.
From the picture below, assuming that is similar to your receiver, is your hookup to the subwoofer from the receiver involve two wires or one?
In other words, does the back of your subwoofer have cable clips similar to the other speakers?
Or is there just one big cable, entirely different from the other speaker hookups, as illustrated in the lower left corner of the graphic?
I hope you don't mind my asking so many questions, but I want to be certain what we are dealing with here.
Also:
A) Do you have a CD recorder on your computer?
B) Do you have an inexpensive multimeter capable of measuring AC or DC? If not, they are highly borrowable. If you do decide to buy one, I can assure you it will come in handy, and they are available for under $20. Maybe way under $20.
I know this sounds supicious and complicated, but believe me, it is not. There is a good chance you have an ideal setup to simply make a speaker/box combo that will hook right up to your receiver with no problems at all, but I want to make sure. And you might not even have to take apart your old sub!
PS: the measurements of your present sub yield an internal volume of between 1/4 and 1/3 Ft³. You really cannot get much out of that. I really do think it is sensible to provide better bass to watch a $3,000 TV with.
Rob:
I checked out the instruction book of the slightly different model, the RT 2500, which i think might be similar.
You said the cable to the subwoofer was somewhat different.
From the picture below, assuming that is similar to your receiver, is your hookup to the subwoofer from the receiver involve two wires or one?
In other words, does the back of your subwoofer have cable clips similar to the other speakers?
Or is there just one big cable, entirely different from the other speaker hookups, as illustrated in the lower left corner of the graphic?
I hope you don't mind my asking so many questions, but I want to be certain what we are dealing with here.
Also:
A) Do you have a CD recorder on your computer?
B) Do you have an inexpensive multimeter capable of measuring AC or DC? If not, they are highly borrowable. If you do decide to buy one, I can assure you it will come in handy, and they are available for under $20. Maybe way under $20.
I know this sounds supicious and complicated, but believe me, it is not. There is a good chance you have an ideal setup to simply make a speaker/box combo that will hook right up to your receiver with no problems at all, but I want to make sure. And you might not even have to take apart your old sub!
PS: the measurements of your present sub yield an internal volume of between 1/4 and 1/3 Ft³. You really cannot get much out of that. I really do think it is sensible to provide better bass to watch a $3,000 TV with.
Attachments
fogive me for butting in so late....
the bandpass sub box might be for 2 reasons. 1 increase sensitivity of the sub and to provide a natural HP filter.
if we were to replace that box with sealed or bass reflex we'd have t ensure the the new sub was atleast as sens as the bandpass box and we'd need a HP filter.
bass relfex might be as sens as bandpass esp given the circumstances but sealed box would be less sens. HP filtering could be done accoustically. fire the woofer in to the floor for example.
now that we know the amp is pwering the sub directly and there is a sub out available as well maybe rob can lookon Ebay for a active sub that fits his budget. then it'd be a simple plug and play.
sorry if i offended anyone.
the bandpass sub box might be for 2 reasons. 1 increase sensitivity of the sub and to provide a natural HP filter.
if we were to replace that box with sealed or bass reflex we'd have t ensure the the new sub was atleast as sens as the bandpass box and we'd need a HP filter.
bass relfex might be as sens as bandpass esp given the circumstances but sealed box would be less sens. HP filtering could be done accoustically. fire the woofer in to the floor for example.
now that we know the amp is pwering the sub directly and there is a sub out available as well maybe rob can lookon Ebay for a active sub that fits his budget. then it'd be a simple plug and play.
sorry if i offended anyone.
I believe I already mentioned the acoustic HP filter issue.
However as I've mentioned as well : peak excursion on normal
music program often occurs in the upper bass region, which is
true for both sealed and reflex alignments.
Bandpass alignments significantly reduce excursion in the upper
bass - its my opinion that this is the main feature exploited by
manafacturers - getting more ouput from the bass driver.
I don't understand you you reach your surmisation about sensitivity.
Its already been covered that the new sub must be more sensitive.
Well we see things differently on the sensitivity issue. As covered
before the acoustical high pass filter is hopefully not an issue, but
the possibility does need to be considered.
If there is a line-level sub-out then there are very good reasons
to use it and its certainly the best option.
Most expensive too, but via E-bay perhaps not ?
Have to agree - perhaps I was getting carried away exploring the
possibilities rather than not mentioning compromised solutions,
given the bass driver in the original post !
🙂 all /sreten.
before you go to all this trouble try putting the sub in a corner of the room with the port facing a wall, it may not solve the problem but give it a try
Hello you wonderfully helpful people!
I was off yesterday but over the weekend I did some experimentation and also went on a sub safari.
First - to answer the previous questions:
My little sub only has cable clips on the back and I "think" the amp is the same way. The wiring for the sub is two wires and I think what made them "special" is that they were shielded or something.
Second - Out of sheer desperation, I built my "SUB SHOOTER" box Saturday. It was 14" high, 22'' wide, 22'' deep, and had a 2'' enclosed bottom. I used wood glue, screws, caulking and then painted it mat black.
Did it work?
Yes - it actually made an eyebrow-lifting difference - but it was boomy (as you said it would be), and the dang speaker still distorts anyway. - But all in all, it DID make the bass fuller in the room.
Am I happy?
Hardly.
Am I a goober?
Quite possibly.
SO, Saturday, on the ruse of "Christmas shopping", I took my wife to Best Buy. And there I found the following affordable ($200) powered sub that my wife will agree on buying because she knows I am obsessive and will bother her to no end until I scratch this itch:
Features
Advanced SAW Design: Combining a specialized speaker for deep bass with a built-in amplifier to provide power, the SA-WM500 features Sony's patented subwoofer design. In addition, this Super Acoustically Loaded product provides bass all the way down to the lowest musical frequencies (20Hz) from a compact cabinet.
Woofer: The SA-WM500 has a 12" long-throw woofer for deep, accurate bass.
Amplifier: The 12" long-throw woofer is powered by a 150-watt amplifier.
Surround: For a smoother response and improved durability, the woofer uses a rubber surround.
Bass Port: There is a rear-firing bass port for improved bass response.
Auto Power On/Off: The subwoofer turns on automatically when an input signal is received and off seven minutes after the signal stops.
Low-Pass Filter: The SA-WM500 offers a continuously variable low-pass filter, adjustable from 50-200Hz.
Phase Switch: The subwoofer's phase switch allows you to select normal or reverse. If the bass sounds muddy or unclear, toggling the phase control can sometimes strengthen the bass "attack."
Key Features:
bass-reflex
video-shielded
150-watt amp
12" long-throw woofer
frequency response 20-200 Hz
continuously variable 50-200 Hz low-pass crossover
speaker-level inputs and outputs
line-level input and output
signal-sensing power on/off
phase switch
volume control
black vinyl finish
14-3/16"W x 16-3/4"H x 16-1/2"D
warranty: 1 year
Enclosure Bass reflex
Video Shielded Yes
Woofer Size (inches) 12
Woofer Composition Paper
Firing Direction Front
Preamp-Level Inputs Yes
Speaker-Level Inputs Yes
Low-Pass Crossover Freq 50-200Hz
High-Pass Crossover Freq N/A
Phase Switch Yes
Amplifier Output (watts) 150
Frequency Response 20-200 Hz
Height (inches) 16 3/4
Width (inches) 14 3/16
Depth (inches) 16 1/2
Parts Warranty 1 Year
Labor Warranty 1 Year
And then there's this from the BEst Buy site:
Built-in amplifier delivers 150 watts into 6 ohms, 20-200Hz, 0.7% THD
Advanced bass reflex design
12" long-throw woofer
Level control
Variable high-cut filter (50-170Hz) lets you optimize response for your system
Phase-reverse switch
Line- and speaker-level inputs
Magnetically shielded to prevent picture distortion when placed near a TV or monitor
Auto power on/off
Line output for connection of an additional subwoofer
Frequency response: 24-170Hz
Product Details
Product Height 17-3/4"
Product Width 19-1/4"
Product Length 21-3/4"
Enclosure Color Black
Frequency Response 20-200Hz
Magnetically Shielded Yes
Add powerful, controlled bass to your existing home audio setup with Sony's cool, compact SA-WM500! Using a potent 150-watt amplifier and a 12" long-throw woofer with a rubber surround, this affordable sub sends out rich, room-shaking bass. Great for enhancing music and adding realistic thrills to home theater listening! The phase switch and crossover control let you easily match the subterranean sounds to your other speakers....
There. That should be enough info. 🙂
QUESTIONS:
My current passive sub (although the specs call it a "powered" sub?) is 130 watts and much smaller in stature with probably a 6 or 7'''' speaker. (I measure the box - it was 9'' x 9'' x 14'').
The Sony sub mentioned above is only 20 watts more but it has a 12'' speaker (driver?) , a much larger box (speaker?), a powered amp and adjustment knobs on back.
I listened to it at the store and it seemed to be substantially better...
SO -
1. IS it better - explosion / furniture shaking wise???
2. Would it be a big satisfying leap or just a hop from what I have?
3. Will this be compatible with my RCA system?
4. Is it worth the $200 for a non-speaker builder to make due?
Thanks for the input - I REALLY appreciate the help!
- Rob
I was off yesterday but over the weekend I did some experimentation and also went on a sub safari.
First - to answer the previous questions:
My little sub only has cable clips on the back and I "think" the amp is the same way. The wiring for the sub is two wires and I think what made them "special" is that they were shielded or something.
Second - Out of sheer desperation, I built my "SUB SHOOTER" box Saturday. It was 14" high, 22'' wide, 22'' deep, and had a 2'' enclosed bottom. I used wood glue, screws, caulking and then painted it mat black.
Did it work?
Yes - it actually made an eyebrow-lifting difference - but it was boomy (as you said it would be), and the dang speaker still distorts anyway. - But all in all, it DID make the bass fuller in the room.
Am I happy?
Hardly.
Am I a goober?
Quite possibly.
SO, Saturday, on the ruse of "Christmas shopping", I took my wife to Best Buy. And there I found the following affordable ($200) powered sub that my wife will agree on buying because she knows I am obsessive and will bother her to no end until I scratch this itch:
Features
Advanced SAW Design: Combining a specialized speaker for deep bass with a built-in amplifier to provide power, the SA-WM500 features Sony's patented subwoofer design. In addition, this Super Acoustically Loaded product provides bass all the way down to the lowest musical frequencies (20Hz) from a compact cabinet.
Woofer: The SA-WM500 has a 12" long-throw woofer for deep, accurate bass.
Amplifier: The 12" long-throw woofer is powered by a 150-watt amplifier.
Surround: For a smoother response and improved durability, the woofer uses a rubber surround.
Bass Port: There is a rear-firing bass port for improved bass response.
Auto Power On/Off: The subwoofer turns on automatically when an input signal is received and off seven minutes after the signal stops.
Low-Pass Filter: The SA-WM500 offers a continuously variable low-pass filter, adjustable from 50-200Hz.
Phase Switch: The subwoofer's phase switch allows you to select normal or reverse. If the bass sounds muddy or unclear, toggling the phase control can sometimes strengthen the bass "attack."
Key Features:
bass-reflex
video-shielded
150-watt amp
12" long-throw woofer
frequency response 20-200 Hz
continuously variable 50-200 Hz low-pass crossover
speaker-level inputs and outputs
line-level input and output
signal-sensing power on/off
phase switch
volume control
black vinyl finish
14-3/16"W x 16-3/4"H x 16-1/2"D
warranty: 1 year
Enclosure Bass reflex
Video Shielded Yes
Woofer Size (inches) 12
Woofer Composition Paper
Firing Direction Front
Preamp-Level Inputs Yes
Speaker-Level Inputs Yes
Low-Pass Crossover Freq 50-200Hz
High-Pass Crossover Freq N/A
Phase Switch Yes
Amplifier Output (watts) 150
Frequency Response 20-200 Hz
Height (inches) 16 3/4
Width (inches) 14 3/16
Depth (inches) 16 1/2
Parts Warranty 1 Year
Labor Warranty 1 Year
And then there's this from the BEst Buy site:
Built-in amplifier delivers 150 watts into 6 ohms, 20-200Hz, 0.7% THD
Advanced bass reflex design
12" long-throw woofer
Level control
Variable high-cut filter (50-170Hz) lets you optimize response for your system
Phase-reverse switch
Line- and speaker-level inputs
Magnetically shielded to prevent picture distortion when placed near a TV or monitor
Auto power on/off
Line output for connection of an additional subwoofer
Frequency response: 24-170Hz
Product Details
Product Height 17-3/4"
Product Width 19-1/4"
Product Length 21-3/4"
Enclosure Color Black
Frequency Response 20-200Hz
Magnetically Shielded Yes
Add powerful, controlled bass to your existing home audio setup with Sony's cool, compact SA-WM500! Using a potent 150-watt amplifier and a 12" long-throw woofer with a rubber surround, this affordable sub sends out rich, room-shaking bass. Great for enhancing music and adding realistic thrills to home theater listening! The phase switch and crossover control let you easily match the subterranean sounds to your other speakers....
There. That should be enough info. 🙂
QUESTIONS:
My current passive sub (although the specs call it a "powered" sub?) is 130 watts and much smaller in stature with probably a 6 or 7'''' speaker. (I measure the box - it was 9'' x 9'' x 14'').
The Sony sub mentioned above is only 20 watts more but it has a 12'' speaker (driver?) , a much larger box (speaker?), a powered amp and adjustment knobs on back.
I listened to it at the store and it seemed to be substantially better...
SO -
1. IS it better - explosion / furniture shaking wise???
2. Would it be a big satisfying leap or just a hop from what I have?
3. Will this be compatible with my RCA system?
4. Is it worth the $200 for a non-speaker builder to make due?
Thanks for the input - I REALLY appreciate the help!
- Rob
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