The allure of a 2 way that goes low enough. The problem with most subs is there not subs. They go too high. If you you can point to it with your eyes closed, its not LPFed enough. And because of fletcher munson you have to filter low and steep, so your mains need to go fairly low also.
And transients are best for localization so why would you want a sub with good transients? Now if your talking about a sub used with 3 inch speakers, call it what it is, a woofer, and thats another story.
@mountainman bob fwiw - here's what hornresp says for your LAB15 variant with regards to impulse. "Fullrange" = interesting - can sometimes use Karlson approach to get tiny cone excursion usable.
So is it safe to assume the squiggles in the impulse response after the peak are from being out of phase?
And the longer gap after the sealed peak is a longer note decay?
The peak height is all the same....is there a way to introduce the effects of a lp filter?
Thanks Freddi.....it seems to me the ‘cleanest’ way to implement these woofers is sealed or maybe aperiodic.....which I’m under the impression does not change phase, just makes the box appear bigger to the driver?
@mountainman bob - here's how hornresp says your LAB15 speaker in an 85 liter sealed box looks for impulse without filter then with various slope 80Hz lowpass filters
For one, we are listening with our ears. It's kinda important what they pick up.
And that is dominated by the room we are in. NOT by what technology the sub uses.
Iow people should get their priorities straight.
Sec. My post wasn't an argument against anything you mentioned here, but a general argument about what is important and what is not, concerning subwoofers. Answer: The room.
huh.....it doesnt remove the peaks until 3rd and definately 4th order
but does smear the time, i assume this is heard as a extended note?
my crown amp does 3rd order lp/bp/hp dsp and my reciever does 2nd order lp/hp analog so it'll be interesting to hear the differences.
so if one is designing a new system in a new room would it be best to 'measure' the room with sealed subs to see first where the peak/nulls then use that data to design a box that would better suit the room?
or would that be more effort than it'd be worth?
It would be wiser to treat the room before spending too much time on the perfect sub, and try to fight room modes with multiple sub.
the admiral was gracious enough to allow one 13' wall dedicated to audio/video
the deal was no extraneous appendages from the stereo out into the room (surround,subs, etc) and when i started showing her treatments (even ones that resemble art) it was basically 'talk to the hand'!
so im kindly stuck with dealing with the room as is.
in this case would it be better to measure sealed then build a box style that would suit the room?
You can use any kind of sub.
The room is orders of magnitude worse.
It's like saying you will loose weight by shaving of your pubic hair, but it's so much wiser to eat a sandwich less each day.
From what you say, all subs should sound the same because the room dominates the sound. Sure the room makes a huge differance but so does the sub. Like you said, use your ears.
Starts at the toes and goes on up! So that might work! Lol
What I meant is if I identify the rooms problems with the sub in a sealed enclosure and then made the appropriate sub box to help overcome the known peaks/nulls.
Makes sense to me but what do I know......I wouldn’t be here asking stupid questions if I did! 😀
Bill Coltrane is one wise fella. My innumerable REW FRs over the years with different subs have similar bumps and dips in the bass. But others are asking what to do?
My experience estimating room modes does not give me confidence in it.
Likewise, not a whole lot you can do to change a room, at least not easily (but I have a clothes closet full of my winter motorcycle gear exactly placed right opposite the speakers and opening the closet door makes a difference in the room FR).
And final pessimistic note, not always predictable about where your box will boom.
On the bright side, big differences in where you sit your chair. And - based on one week when we were re-decorating the music room - major differences according to where you put the sub, even foot by foot away.
Of course, everybody knows the benefits of multiple-subs and reversing polarities (no kidding). Has to be done experimentally.
B.
All fine and dandy, doesn't change the fact that the system sounds best with a good transient response.
Just for the heck of it I ran my subs full range and set my high pass on the mains to meet where it sounded best(ended up 160hz).....it muddied up the bass pretty good so I Took the inductor out of the lp on the mains (now just a 15uf shunt cap) to bring all the transient response to the party as possible.
The separation between rhythm and percussion is now more defined with a more authentic ‘live’ presence.
Not sure if I’d want to leave it this way but definately gives direction for the new system I’m putting together.
What I take from this is your better off using natural roll off points than trying to force a driver to comply.....and I’m with Scott on this one.
This is fine by me.
But you first stated it as some universal truth, that's not fine by me.
Goodo. "Sounds best" I take as purely subjective. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "fact" although for me it is. I'm not a pedant and don't feel obliged to put IMHO after everything 😉🙂
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