1. Yes I do want to hear what the speaker sounds like in my room. What I don't want to hear is what the speaker sounds like in X's room. X needs to make the recordings out of doors so that there are no room effects in the recordings.
2. But if I play the recordings on my speakers, the recordings will be filtered through the nonlinearities of my speakers. I still don't know what the test speakers will sound like on my system in my room.
3. Given 1 and 2, I did play the game on the first two rounds of X's competitions. I was able to identify drivers that I personally own. No, they did not sound like the same drivers in my speakers, but I am familiar enough with the idiosyncrasies of the drivers to recognise them.
4. Once the signal gets into the noise level, DDR, if it exists, becomes unidentifiable. All electronic recordings, i.e. all studio recordings can have very low noise levels. However, a large percentage of the recordings that I own are concert hall recordings with rather high ambient noise levels.
Bob
2. But if I play the recordings on my speakers, the recordings will be filtered through the nonlinearities of my speakers. I still don't know what the test speakers will sound like on my system in my room.
3. Given 1 and 2, I did play the game on the first two rounds of X's competitions. I was able to identify drivers that I personally own. No, they did not sound like the same drivers in my speakers, but I am familiar enough with the idiosyncrasies of the drivers to recognise them.
4. Once the signal gets into the noise level, DDR, if it exists, becomes unidentifiable. All electronic recordings, i.e. all studio recordings can have very low noise levels. However, a large percentage of the recordings that I own are concert hall recordings with rather high ambient noise levels.
Bob
I am going to make something similar to this recording "booth" to put behind the mic. I have special sound treatment foam panels and will make a small semicircle shield against ambient sounds behind the mic with it.
Portable Vocal Recording Bundle -- Talent VB1 Isolation Booth with DM1 Microphone & Tripod Mic Stand
As Byrtt said, there will be differences, if any, will be due to the drivers being different as all other aspects of the chain are identical.
Portable Vocal Recording Bundle -- Talent VB1 Isolation Booth with DM1 Microphone & Tripod Mic Stand
As Byrtt said, there will be differences, if any, will be due to the drivers being different as all other aspects of the chain are identical.
Yes, differences. And at this point, we are judging differences, not making any subjective judgement of better/worse.
Save me a long search -- What mic are you using, and do you have the FR plot for that mic?
BTW Long ago I had a pair of enabled FE167E's. They did sound smoother (that 7k peak that all Fostex drivers have was lower), but was it the ModPodge, the dots, both?
Bob
Save me a long search -- What mic are you using, and do you have the FR plot for that mic?
BTW Long ago I had a pair of enabled FE167E's. They did sound smoother (that 7k peak that all Fostex drivers have was lower), but was it the ModPodge, the dots, both?
Bob
I used to use a Zoom H4 for recording tracks. This time I will use a calibrated UMIK-1 and yes I have the calibration curve. Since the curve is software I will need to figure out how to apply the curve in post processing with Audacity or some other means. I will record in mono. Alternatively, I can record with built in mic in Zoom H4 and use calibrated curve from mic to correct. I think I posted the difference between H4 and calibrated mic recording pink noise in earlier thread. The difference was minor if I recall.
Colin - this if course really OT to the thread subject, but I'm quite aware of the technical arguments for headphones, and yes of the over dozen I've owned, the better ones (Beyer Dynamics, Koss PRO4AA, Nakamichi, Yamaha, Audio Technica, Micro Seiki, Grado) have had excellent frequency response and varying degrees of isolation of not only "the sound of room", but of other sounds in the room. Indeed, it's probably the latter that gives me a type of claustrophobia / distortion of spacial perspective when my 3D sense of location doesn't change as I move about even slightly.
I must say that I can recall exactly the opposite sensation when listening to experimental binaural recordings that briefly circulated as a curiosity among audio dealers in the mid 70s, but there's probably lots of reasons the technique is not more widely used for music.
Of course if I was a sound engineer, my focus would be completely different.
I must say that I can recall exactly the opposite sensation when listening to experimental binaural recordings that briefly circulated as a curiosity among audio dealers in the mid 70s, but there's probably lots of reasons the technique is not more widely used for music.
Of course if I was a sound engineer, my focus would be completely different.
When using mic in REW for measurement, the cal file is used by REW to provide calibrated response measurements. However, if using mic to record sound clips as a USB mic, whatever software is doing the recording, just takes raw response.
In this way, the $800 Earthworks XLR mics with phantom power and built in pre-amp has the cal curve in analog (? or maybe slick DSP inside?) hardware in the mic body so signal out is truly flat. Something to be said for a cal that is implemented in analog hardware.
I think the recorded comparison would be cool, but there are too many factors, and whether a difference is heard or not, its either going to show the drastic difference or prove nothing, and I think the latter is more likely.
I think the best way to go about this is to put both pairs of drivers on an open baffle as close to each other as possible, then do a blind or double blind test between them, but the only way I think anyone is going to have their opinion is swayed is to have the person in the room so I plan to have this setup when funds allow and take it to a DIY meet or something similar and have others see if they can tell the difference.
I do think frequency response and harmonic distortion plots would be cool though as it seems a lot of people say that the higher frequency response is smoothed and maybe the improved sound can be shown with lower distortion levels? Also intermodulation distortion would really be the best way to go about this for something that seems to tame more complex issues in the sound reproduction
I think the best way to go about this is to put both pairs of drivers on an open baffle as close to each other as possible, then do a blind or double blind test between them, but the only way I think anyone is going to have their opinion is swayed is to have the person in the room so I plan to have this setup when funds allow and take it to a DIY meet or something similar and have others see if they can tell the difference.
I do think frequency response and harmonic distortion plots would be cool though as it seems a lot of people say that the higher frequency response is smoothed and maybe the improved sound can be shown with lower distortion levels? Also intermodulation distortion would really be the best way to go about this for something that seems to tame more complex issues in the sound reproduction
I really don't know if the measurement will show a significant difference. There is only one way to find out. If there is a measurable difference - it will be audible. Although there may be an audible difference with hardly any measurable difference. Don't know that's why I bought the two sets of drivers for this very purpose. Byrtt split the cost with me as he has always had a hand in furthering these blind comparison tests from the beginning. Thanks Byrtt. 
I don't see anything wrong with Enabl other than the rather gross (at times) technical misrepresentations. I have tried it, both on a planet 10 modified fostex and incrementally on other drivers myself, and it just seems like a low mass way of helping diffuse/distribute some cone resonance, with attendant limitations of how effective it can be- I have preferred with vs. without.
I find the claims of efficacy on cabinets and walls to be absurd but I don't have a problem with people doing them- nothing wrong with benefiting from a little placebo effect, we all fall prey to it at times.
With respect to the ability of a home recording to replicate it... I can see plenty of loss of low level information, which is already lacking in many/most recordings, so despite some possible "better playback of what DID make it onto the recording" by an improved transducer, you're then doubling-down on some of the recording chain losses that make it that much worse. The idea is to minimize harm to the low level information on the recording, which is inherently less than the original performance.
Simplified: Use it if you like it, you're unlikely to hurt anything, but don't claim it fixes room modes or has a meaningful impact upon room or cabinet acoustics.
I find the claims of efficacy on cabinets and walls to be absurd but I don't have a problem with people doing them- nothing wrong with benefiting from a little placebo effect, we all fall prey to it at times.
With respect to the ability of a home recording to replicate it... I can see plenty of loss of low level information, which is already lacking in many/most recordings, so despite some possible "better playback of what DID make it onto the recording" by an improved transducer, you're then doubling-down on some of the recording chain losses that make it that much worse. The idea is to minimize harm to the low level information on the recording, which is inherently less than the original performance.
Simplified: Use it if you like it, you're unlikely to hurt anything, but don't claim it fixes room modes or has a meaningful impact upon room or cabinet acoustics.
Ya I doubt the measurements will, and if they did I think it would be audible in the room, but I think even my fairly good headphone setup, included in with my signal chain and the microphone your using will skew the sound more than the drivers themselves would. I'd just want to hear them myself and have others hear them in person is what it really comes down to haha
Well the same arguments of remote recordings not conveying what a driver sounds like sure did not seem to affect the fact that driver voicing and personality were very apparent in the previous 5 threads with posted sound clips. A flat response with low ringing and low harmonic distortion will sound better than one with not as flat or ringing or higher distortion. If the treated driver measures significantly different - trust me, you will hear a difference. Sure, it's not like being in the room - but it's a lot better than taking someone's word for it.
Based on this comment I'd think it would unlikely for someone to easily hear the difference through their own unenabled source.
Not meaning to add to your work, but you could also consider conducting multiple anonymous tests of the same drivers in different rooms/environments.
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I don't think you can measure DDR, it's a subjective quality coined by Dave and I'm not sure there's any consistent understanding of what it is or whether you'd recognize it if you heard it yourself ???
http://www.inner-magazines.com/news/11/68/Lars-Torressen---Interview/
Lars Tørressen - Interview
Mar 2, 2010
Extra: Kari Nevalainen
"That also means great downward dynamic range, the ability to render very low level sounds along with strong sounds. Some call this resolution. This is what I like about the sound from single end DHT tube amplifiers."
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...n-class-full-range-drivers-7.html#post4235627
Dave (p10): "DDR is not an audiophile concept. As Barleywater pointed out, it is dynamic range -- a well established engineering term. But the conotation ofdynamic range most often used is the ability to deal with a large increase in output without compression or other problems. Adding the prefix Downward just focuses the attention to the other end of the scale, the small stuff, detail, low level information. So it is just saying don't forget the small stuff. Thanx Barleywater fro that.
Now how does one measure the lower limit of a speaker's dynamic range? I'd be tempted to call itthenoise floor, but it is known that we can hear into the noise."
Perhaps it could be defined as the dynamic range (signal level divided by total noise level) measured at a specific low signal level (% of Xmax, SPL ?) and a formal definition would then be within reach ?
http://www.inner-magazines.com/news/11/68/Lars-Torressen---Interview/
Lars Tørressen - Interview
Mar 2, 2010
Extra: Kari Nevalainen
"That also means great downward dynamic range, the ability to render very low level sounds along with strong sounds. Some call this resolution. This is what I like about the sound from single end DHT tube amplifiers."
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...n-class-full-range-drivers-7.html#post4235627
Dave (p10): "DDR is not an audiophile concept. As Barleywater pointed out, it is dynamic range -- a well established engineering term. But the conotation ofdynamic range most often used is the ability to deal with a large increase in output without compression or other problems. Adding the prefix Downward just focuses the attention to the other end of the scale, the small stuff, detail, low level information. So it is just saying don't forget the small stuff. Thanx Barleywater fro that.
Now how does one measure the lower limit of a speaker's dynamic range? I'd be tempted to call itthenoise floor, but it is known that we can hear into the noise."
Perhaps it could be defined as the dynamic range (signal level divided by total noise level) measured at a specific low signal level (% of Xmax, SPL ?) and a formal definition would then be within reach ?
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The amount of DDR is the ability of a device to transmit very low-level detail. Increasing DDR could be thot of as lowering the noise floor, but the driver has to have the capability of reproducing in the lower portion of the increased range, and we have to remember that humans can hear below the noise floor.
dave
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