Off the top of the head:
1. Rod Elliot’s ESP project
http://sound.westhost.com/project09.htm
Even with revision, modelling with circuit design shows that this is not phase coherent
2. Behringer 3-way CX (3400 ). http://www.behringer.com/02_products/prodindex.cfm?id=CX3400&lang=eng
Costs about the same as a Elliot ESP (including components about $US 150), ready made and adjustable.
But is it phase coherent?
3. DYO (Design your own) requires reasonable skill/ knowledge.
4. Other?
Non phase coherent XOs could be fixed, with phase correction.
Scenario A: Active
Scenario B: Passive
Best option
Richard😉
1. Rod Elliot’s ESP project
http://sound.westhost.com/project09.htm
Even with revision, modelling with circuit design shows that this is not phase coherent
2. Behringer 3-way CX (3400 ). http://www.behringer.com/02_products/prodindex.cfm?id=CX3400&lang=eng
Costs about the same as a Elliot ESP (including components about $US 150), ready made and adjustable.
But is it phase coherent?
3. DYO (Design your own) requires reasonable skill/ knowledge.
4. Other?
Non phase coherent XOs could be fixed, with phase correction.
Scenario A: Active
Scenario B: Passive
Best option
Richard😉
Bessel?
Hi Rick57,
How about Bessel characteristic?
What do you mean by phase coherent? I am not familiar with the term.
😕
Hi Rick57,
How about Bessel characteristic?
What do you mean by phase coherent? I am not familiar with the term.
😕
Minimum Phase
Hi Hartono,
I am sorry what do you mean by Minimum Phase?. I am not familiar with the term....
😕 😕 😕
Hartono said:Elso, maybe rick57 meant : phase coherent= minimum phase
Hi Hartono,
I am sorry what do you mean by Minimum Phase?. I am not familiar with the term....
😕 😕 😕
minimum phase , linear phase , phase coherent crossover
means that the crossover does not produce phase distortion
thus in systeum using XO with linear phase characteristic will produce summed output waveform with flat magnitude and phase characteristic.
traditionally this means using 1st order butterworth network, however some people have used various method to compensate for phase error in some active XO design so that the XO can be of higher order (steeper roll off) and still have the characteristic of 1st order butterworth network
🙂
I hope this might help
means that the crossover does not produce phase distortion
thus in systeum using XO with linear phase characteristic will produce summed output waveform with flat magnitude and phase characteristic.
traditionally this means using 1st order butterworth network, however some people have used various method to compensate for phase error in some active XO design so that the XO can be of higher order (steeper roll off) and still have the characteristic of 1st order butterworth network
🙂
I hope this might help
Some other terms are in use also. There were good articles about it by John Kreskovsky, but unfortunately I just discovered he removed (it seems it happened yesterday!) whole content of his site. Phase coherent system is that which at its output shows the same relations between the phases as it was at the input. If phase coherent system has flat amplitude response then it can be considered as transient accurate, i.e. it will have good transient behavior. In itself, it is not an exclusive privilege of the first order crossovers.
Richard, you should ask this question rather in the loudspeaker forum. But, when you asked already…
I’d rather never use 24dB crossover. Be it active or passive, phase coherent or not.
When you correct phase of the non phase coherent crossover, you get the phase coherent crossover, we are walking in circle with it.
There is a bulk of the crossover simulators, so you can model crossover day and night. Linkwitz-Riley is not the only way to achieve phase coherent crossover.
Pedja
Richard, you should ask this question rather in the loudspeaker forum. But, when you asked already…
I’d rather never use 24dB crossover. Be it active or passive, phase coherent or not.
When you correct phase of the non phase coherent crossover, you get the phase coherent crossover, we are walking in circle with it.
There is a bulk of the crossover simulators, so you can model crossover day and night. Linkwitz-Riley is not the only way to achieve phase coherent crossover.
Pedja
Is the test for "not phase coherent" valid
See:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13741
See:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13741
Hello Hartono,
Strictly speaking, you’re right, LR is not phase coherent. But among the stock crossovers it has the best transient behavior. It has linear amplitude response, and phase aligned sections (assuming inverted absolute phase).
Everyone can try to achieve better transient behavior.
If it is any important, I’m the 1st order XOs fan.
Btw, crossover can be phase coherent and still not transient perfect if doesn’t have linear amplitude response.
Here are the transient behaviors of the 2nd order, 2-way, 3000Hz crossovers.
Pedja
Strictly speaking, you’re right, LR is not phase coherent. But among the stock crossovers it has the best transient behavior. It has linear amplitude response, and phase aligned sections (assuming inverted absolute phase).
Everyone can try to achieve better transient behavior.
If it is any important, I’m the 1st order XOs fan.
Btw, crossover can be phase coherent and still not transient perfect if doesn’t have linear amplitude response.
Here are the transient behaviors of the 2nd order, 2-way, 3000Hz crossovers.
Pedja
What is happening with this site? Yesterday and today every posting goes slooooooow. Now, I want to upload pic 822x448, 29kB, and it says to "please upload pic less than 1200x800" or something like that!!!
Pedia
what are you doing feeding a squarewave into a filter? What's that supposed to tell you?
Ok, the transient response is better, phase coherence is way overrated.
what are you doing feeding a squarewave into a filter? What's that supposed to tell you?
Ok, the transient response is better, phase coherence is way overrated.
correction
In the post No12 of this thread it should read:
It has linear amplitude response, and phase aligned sections (assuming inverted absolute phase of the tweeter).
Pedja
In the post No12 of this thread it should read:
It has linear amplitude response, and phase aligned sections (assuming inverted absolute phase of the tweeter).
Pedja
Hello Grataku,
Just wanted to show how does it looks.
I’m not pro-Linkwitz side here.
It might be the phase coherence is overrated, but it is sure the careful approach to the speaker’s phase behavior is not a waste of time. And it may be I like 1st order crossover because it is phase coherent, but it might be there are also some other (and more important) reasons for that.
Pedja
Just wanted to show how does it looks.
I’m not pro-Linkwitz side here.
It might be the phase coherence is overrated, but it is sure the careful approach to the speaker’s phase behavior is not a waste of time. And it may be I like 1st order crossover because it is phase coherent, but it might be there are also some other (and more important) reasons for that.
Pedja
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