If your PSU transformer is affecting your sound quality, then your build is faulty. Start again.
If your PSU capacitor/s type changes the sound quality, then you have selected the wrong type. Start again.
Main supply capacitors is not filtering of the wanted signal.
Bypassing probably indicates you have selected the wrong capacitor.
DC blocking, i.e. coupling capacitor should pass ALL the wanted signal. It should not be acting as a filter.
Local supply rail decoupling is not filtering of the wanted signal. Don't get sidetracked.
It seems you have become confused about what the various capacitors in your build are supposed to be doing.
If you don't understand/know their purpose, then you can't hope to guess at a suitable replacement.
If your PSU capacitor/s type changes the sound quality, then you have selected the wrong type. Start again.
Main supply capacitors is not filtering of the wanted signal.
Bypassing probably indicates you have selected the wrong capacitor.
DC blocking, i.e. coupling capacitor should pass ALL the wanted signal. It should not be acting as a filter.
Local supply rail decoupling is not filtering of the wanted signal. Don't get sidetracked.
It seems you have become confused about what the various capacitors in your build are supposed to be doing.
If you don't understand/know their purpose, then you can't hope to guess at a suitable replacement.
Hi Andrew
Let's say Im building a Nelson Pass circuit, I use differents brand of caps
to tweak the sound & off course sound changes . In this context are you
going to say Mr. Pass is a lousy designer or I've goofed ? Be it signal related
or not, all add up to contribute to the final sound . I'm not confused Andrew,
I'm not a designer but I've tweaked more the enough to know the results.
So much so that I know the sound of each capacitors I use & I know where
to use them & combine them to achieve what I want. Perhaps you should
give it a try. Pointless to be telling me about theory. Audio as I mention
requires more then theory & measurements to sound good.
Good Day
Let's say Im building a Nelson Pass circuit, I use differents brand of caps
to tweak the sound & off course sound changes . In this context are you
going to say Mr. Pass is a lousy designer or I've goofed ? Be it signal related
or not, all add up to contribute to the final sound . I'm not confused Andrew,
I'm not a designer but I've tweaked more the enough to know the results.
So much so that I know the sound of each capacitors I use & I know where
to use them & combine them to achieve what I want. Perhaps you should
give it a try. Pointless to be telling me about theory. Audio as I mention
requires more then theory & measurements to sound good.
Good Day
That's funny. I thought DIY audio was a research/scientific hobby. It is the way I do it. Maybe those who believe in magic components ought to find another hobby: car engine tuning, perhaps?sumotan said:
"Utter blindness" is a rude way to talk about people who are Kirchoff and Fourier deniers, but it is true that there seems to be a lot of them around.
Only in a poor design.
Pass is a somewhat idiosyncratic designer.sumotan said:
Sounds like alchemy or perfumery. Clearly your aim is not high fidelity sound reproduction, but making a sound which pleases you.
You said it.
Thanks for the reply DF96
1. Research yes but which part of it is the real question
2. Rude well I apologize but reality is lots of ppl are either
too hard headed or just speculating without experimenting.
3.Only in poor design ? Pls try out more & you'll get the answer
Cheers
1. Research yes but which part of it is the real question
2. Rude well I apologize but reality is lots of ppl are either
too hard headed or just speculating without experimenting.
3.Only in poor design ? Pls try out more & you'll get the answer
Cheers
How I wish Im living near you guys, I would welcome you with
open arms to listen to my set up & you be the judge.
Sound that I like is what sounds realistic. So back to basics,
if your not a good listener then you'll not be able to tune correctly
Cheers
open arms to listen to my set up & you be the judge.
Sound that I like is what sounds realistic. So back to basics,
if your not a good listener then you'll not be able to tune correctly
Cheers
If you are good designer then there is no need to "tune". You simply have to eliminate errors. An error is anything in the output which is not in the input.sumotan said:
lucky you can find some info here about sound of caps !! EVIDENCE
https://linearaudio.nl/cyril-batemans-capacitor-sound-articles
https://linearaudio.nl/cyril-batemans-capacitor-sound-articles
Wow very bold statement DF96 .
You should be into designing &
manufacturing of hi end audio
stuff.
You should be into designing &
manufacturing of hi end audio
stuff.
Last time I looked Cyril Bateman's articles were about the distortion of caps. In many cases the distortion he measured was sufficiently small (even in a test rig designed to maximise distortion) that it is unlikely to be audible. Hence his articles are not really about 'capacitor sound'.
To succeed in 'high end' audio you need to be good at writing creative stories, not designing creative circuits. When I first appeared in this forum a few years ago I was astonished at how many highly regarded 'high end' items had fairly obvious design errors. I am no longer astonished. I was also surprised at how many people talking nonsense and needing training in basic circuit design admitted to being commercially involved in audio. I am no longer surprised - in fact I now assume that someone persistently asserting wrong ideas is probably commercially involved in audio.
To succeed in 'high end' audio you need to be good at writing creative stories, not designing creative circuits. When I first appeared in this forum a few years ago I was astonished at how many highly regarded 'high end' items had fairly obvious design errors. I am no longer astonished. I was also surprised at how many people talking nonsense and needing training in basic circuit design admitted to being commercially involved in audio. I am no longer surprised - in fact I now assume that someone persistently asserting wrong ideas is probably commercially involved in audio.
If they measure the same yet sound different, then you are measuring the wrong things.
Or more likely, they don't really sound different.
So would ANY capacitor of the same capacitance , from different reputed ( reliable ) manufacturers, ALL sound the same when used at the input of say a power amplifier ?
You can be sure they are all very well made !
You can be sure they are all very well made !
Guys, I seriously question the need for such debates. They have been done lots of times and the end result was usually a closed thread.
subotan, if you're after a bang for the buck coupling capacitor, my recent discovery is the F&T Joule cap, thank to some local DIY enthusiasts. It looks a lot like Mudorf mcap though.
subotan, if you're after a bang for the buck coupling capacitor, my recent discovery is the F&T Joule cap, thank to some local DIY enthusiasts. It looks a lot like Mudorf mcap though.
Failte Sumotan,
as soon as you mentioned alternative hobbies for the' religious/scientific' crowd they were bound to appear in numbers.
They have a belief system which is rigid and incapable of change and always they project their 'beliefs' onto those who don't agree with them.
I have posted this reality check before but it's worth repeating every now and again - it was on Headfi that this r/s type appeared on a similar kind of thread, he stated ' I only trust the measuring instruments, I don't trust my ears' I replied 'so who sits down at night to listen to the music, you or your measuring instruments' - he never came back with a reply.
I wonder just how much ACTUAL music the likes of Andrew/DF86 and their crowd ACTUALLY listen to.
Here's another tale to tell - when living in Spain I met a man who came into some money and bought and was renovating an old Thames trader - a commercial boat used for trading across the North Sea, using sails for power.
He wanted to fit a sound system on board and was building his own speakers. In the day, early 1970s, Maplins was a good shop to buy components. Whilst waiting in the queue to pay, another customer looked at what he was buying and struck up a conversation and invited him to visit that evening as he had friends coming round for 'a musical evening'.
So this guy turned up, was introduced to everyone and an LP was put on but almost immediately the host jumped up and turned it off and a discussion started about various aspects, not of the music as little had been played but about the bass, treble etc. LP after LP, the same thing happened.
He thought this is ludicrous, they are not interested in listening to music at all. So, he stood up and said "your not listening to the music at all" with one voice they said "we have more important things to do than listen to the music - with that he left immediately.
It's quite clear on this thread who is really into music and who is into the equipment. The only problem is that the r/s types refuse to accept their reality, they are 'true believers' .
This forum and vinyl engine are probably the best audio forums on this planet, I just wish that the mods would make a statement asking the r/s types to stay away from threads that require subjective/emotional responses which they are incapable of responding to in any kind of positive way. Subconsciously they see these type of threads as an attack on their belief systems and respond accordingly.
I never get involved in threads that require a deep understanding of circuit designs since sadly I never got involved seriously in audio until a late age and stick to modifying commercial gear, the exception being inter/connect design and materials which I spent 4 years working on. On the 'scientific' threads I only ever ask questions, since I accept fully my limitations.
Re. i/connects - I soon found that the accepted methods for making them completely disregard the sound science of Lord Heaviside, whose work on electrical conduction toward the end of the 19th century has never been challenged to this day but is totally ignored by both commercial designs and the r/s crowd.
Since i/connects carry the electronically generated signals, they have to be the most important part of any equipment but never have I seen this accepted or discussed in detail anywhere,hilarious to people I know in the computer world who always think 'out of the box'.
as soon as you mentioned alternative hobbies for the' religious/scientific' crowd they were bound to appear in numbers.
They have a belief system which is rigid and incapable of change and always they project their 'beliefs' onto those who don't agree with them.
I have posted this reality check before but it's worth repeating every now and again - it was on Headfi that this r/s type appeared on a similar kind of thread, he stated ' I only trust the measuring instruments, I don't trust my ears' I replied 'so who sits down at night to listen to the music, you or your measuring instruments' - he never came back with a reply.
I wonder just how much ACTUAL music the likes of Andrew/DF86 and their crowd ACTUALLY listen to.
Here's another tale to tell - when living in Spain I met a man who came into some money and bought and was renovating an old Thames trader - a commercial boat used for trading across the North Sea, using sails for power.
He wanted to fit a sound system on board and was building his own speakers. In the day, early 1970s, Maplins was a good shop to buy components. Whilst waiting in the queue to pay, another customer looked at what he was buying and struck up a conversation and invited him to visit that evening as he had friends coming round for 'a musical evening'.
So this guy turned up, was introduced to everyone and an LP was put on but almost immediately the host jumped up and turned it off and a discussion started about various aspects, not of the music as little had been played but about the bass, treble etc. LP after LP, the same thing happened.
He thought this is ludicrous, they are not interested in listening to music at all. So, he stood up and said "your not listening to the music at all" with one voice they said "we have more important things to do than listen to the music - with that he left immediately.
It's quite clear on this thread who is really into music and who is into the equipment. The only problem is that the r/s types refuse to accept their reality, they are 'true believers' .
This forum and vinyl engine are probably the best audio forums on this planet, I just wish that the mods would make a statement asking the r/s types to stay away from threads that require subjective/emotional responses which they are incapable of responding to in any kind of positive way. Subconsciously they see these type of threads as an attack on their belief systems and respond accordingly.
I never get involved in threads that require a deep understanding of circuit designs since sadly I never got involved seriously in audio until a late age and stick to modifying commercial gear, the exception being inter/connect design and materials which I spent 4 years working on. On the 'scientific' threads I only ever ask questions, since I accept fully my limitations.
Re. i/connects - I soon found that the accepted methods for making them completely disregard the sound science of Lord Heaviside, whose work on electrical conduction toward the end of the 19th century has never been challenged to this day but is totally ignored by both commercial designs and the r/s crowd.
Since i/connects carry the electronically generated signals, they have to be the most important part of any equipment but never have I seen this accepted or discussed in detail anywhere,hilarious to people I know in the computer world who always think 'out of the box'.
You seem to have turned some of the arguments on their heads, by stating the opposite to what actually exists.
Depends on value: does it form the dominant low pass filter?ashok said:
Dielectric: is it significantly non-linear and what is the signal level?
Physical size: does it have too much stray capacitiance to nearby sources of hum or interference?
Component choice matters, but you will note I have not mentioned brand as a factor.
Yes. These threads always go around the same circle. Yet people still persist in asking the same questions over and over again, as though there is some particular brand or type of cap which is good for all purposes in all audio circuits.50AE said:
That is true of the 'true believers'. They assume that anyone who accepts science and believes that audio engineering is a branch of applied science must be deaf or stupid or poor.Black Stuart said:
Yes, those who worry about cap brand are into the equipment. Those who just use science prefer music.
Consciously we see these threads as a way to inhibit the spread of ignorance. The emotional response of the true believers is plain to see. Unable to respond with facts, they often resort to insults.
I am pleased to hear that you acknowledge your limitations, including lack of circuit knowledge. Why then speak as though you know more than others?
Could you clarify exactly what you are referring to here? I am familiar with some of his work, having used it in my PhD. I am not aware of anything he has done which relates to the dafter ideas about audio cables. On the contrary, his theory of transmission lines is the basis for rejecting much modern snake oil on cables.
Cables are the simplest, most well understood (by engineers) and most 'ideal' of all the components in an audio system. Hence they are the items which should have least time and money spent on them.
AndrewT is right, your post mostly says the opposite of what is true.
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